It really pisses me off....

[LaMojo]

to try to order a part off an internet site but first before ordering, they want your life history and sign up for an account, then, just a step away from completing the order, they put shipping cost at the very last.  Sometimes the shipping cost are just out of line and I wasted my time filling out their questionnaire.  If the shipping charges are not up front, I don't do business with them.
OK, rant over---maybe.

[charlie b]

Just so folks know.....

When "we" pick a shopping cart program these kinds of things are not that important to a vendor.  We look for ease of use in navigating the products, how we can show the products easily, ease of maintenance of the site, security, and program support.

I also do not like giving a life history (address, email and password) but most of my customers do like the convenience since about half are return customers.  They like that they can look up and see what they ordered in the past and that they don't have to enter that information again.  Their information is also not transmitted to the credit card processing company.

Last, the program that I use allows a shipping estimate up front so the customer can see shipping costs before completing the form.

[normzone]

I hear ya - once in a while I run across an outfit that let's you learn shipping up front, but most of them jerk you around as you describe.

[Arizona Wayne]

If they get your credit card info. before you are ready to order, they can use your card for other things they want to buy for themselves or others.  I've had that happen to me.   

[Triple Jim]

Agreed, if I can't get a shipping estimate before sending personal information, I abandon the cart.  Most of that crap ended ten years ago, and the ones that linger deserve to lose business.

[rodekyll]

+1.
I really feel like a rube when I give it up and then they tell me they don't ship to Alaska or obviously pad shipping because I'm up here.  It's a reason I use paypal.  Then there's a buffer between the seller and my money as well as between the seller and my personal information. 

[Fuzzy]

I finally ordered a Guzziology from Seattle and almost quashed the order when I saw a $15 shipping charge while checking out. For a furshlugginer book? But I considered the positive sentiments here on the form and pulled the trigger anyway. Still a little pissed off.

When it arrived, muy rapido I might add, I realized that is is a BIG furshlugginer book, not only physically, but in the experience and knowledge contained therein.

Combined costs = a bargain.

[sib]

I finally ordered a Guzziology from Seattle and almost quashed the order when I saw a $15 shipping charge while checking out. For a furshlugginer book? But I considered the positive sentiments here on the form and pulled the trigger anyway. Still a little pissed off.

When it arrived, muy rapido I might add, I realized that is is a BIG furshlugginer book, not only physically, but in the experience and knowledge contained therein.

Combined costs = a bargain.

It IS a big book, but book rate postage is very cheap, so I would agree that $15 is a lot to charge for shipping a book.

I agree in general that shipping costs should be provided early in the ordering process.  But, I do make some exceptions.  One well respected Moto Guzzi parts house doesn't even calculate shipping charges until the order is complete.  Then they tack them on before billing your credit card.  They do state their policy up front.  It gives me an uneasy feeling every time, but they're a reliable and fast company, and their prices are good, so I put up with it.

[jbell]

Try being on the road and needing an odd sized tire.  Getting close to 5:00 and stopping in at a VERY well known dealership.  "Do you have this tire size in stock?"  "Well, first we have to put everything into the computer."  Name, address, email, year, make & model, VIN and such.  10 minutes later, "Okay, I'll check on the tire now."  Wait, wait, wait.  "Sorry, we don't have that size in stock."  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Triple Jim]

"Well, first we have to put everything into the computer."  Name, address, email, year, make & model, VIN and such.

At least you got on the mailing list.   

[jbell]

At least you got on the mailing list.   

Not for long.   

[toma nova]

 One well respected Moto Guzzi parts house doesn't even calculate shipping charges until the order is complete.  Then they tack them on before billing your credit card.  They do state their policy up front.  It gives me an uneasy feeling every time, but they're a reliable and fast company, and their prices are good, so I put up with it.

I actually prefer this method because then I know that I am paying the actual shipping costs and not "shipping and handling".  A shipping charge based on sales price has no relation to the cost of shipping to the vendor.  A flat $9.95 (or higher!) just adds a few bucks of profit to the sale.

[charlie b]

We do our shipping charges based on cost of the order.  For our products it seems more fair that way.  And, you know the cost up front so the order can be cancelled if the shipping charge is considered not suitable.

FWIW, we usually "lose" money on shipping (which includes the cost of packaging and mailing), especially overseas.

Keep in mind that if the shipping charge is 'high' then the product price is probably lower.  If the shipping charge is 'low' it means the product price is adjusted up.

Before commenting on what it might or might not cost to do this, our little business (and many others these days) are one or two person operations.  There is no shipping department or automated processes.

[Triple Jim]

I actually prefer this method because then I know that I am paying the actual shipping costs and not "shipping and handling".  A shipping charge based on sales price has no relation to the cost of shipping to the vendor.  A flat $9.95 (or higher!) just adds a few bucks of profit to the sale.

You'd be surprised at how much the actual shipping cost is these days.  A small box with a pound or two of contents, sent inside the US is around $5-$10 by UPS, FedEx, or the USPS.  And if a company adds $5 for shipping and handling, they might spend a dollar or two on the box.  They then have $4 to pay the guy who packages the parts and makes the shipping label, so he has to do it in about five minutes to break even.  It's unlikely the company really makes any extra profit on shipping.

I ship motorcycle parts daily, but choose to charge only actual shipping cost.  It's a perception thing, and I know customers don't like shipping and handling charges that cover actual shipping and handling cost, so I have to make the parts cost cover the shipping materials and the time it takes me to ship them.

The thing that does irritate me is a company that refuses to ship very small parts in envelopes for the cost of 1st Class postage.

[Chuck in Indiana]

The thing that does irritate me is a company that refuses to ship very small parts in envelopes for the cost of 1st Class postage.

Uh, yeah. The shipping and fondling charge on small parts that they could just throw in a mailer is a deal breaker for me.

[toukow]

Agreed, if I can't get a shipping estimate before sending personal information, I abandon the cart.  Most of that crap ended ten years ago, and the ones that linger deserve to lose business.

That's my approach as well. I've sent notes telling them that many people are not going to jump through the hoops to see if the shipping charges are reasonable, they'll just go elsewhere. I agree they do deserve to lose the business if they can't modify such a critical purchase aspect....even if it costs them money to make such a change.

[Stormtruck2]

I packed on full face helmet,  two soft sided saddle bags, a tool pouch with tools, in one box.  Boxed weight was 28 pounds.  UPS cost to ship to Amsterdam,  $387.00. Jang said just hold onto the items until he returns to the states.  The value of the items was less than the shipping.

[Triple Jim]

For overseas shipment, USPS is the only affordable choice.  I've recently sent packages 4 feet long and 16" square with similar weights to Europe for about $120.

[charlie b]

Yep, overseas shipping is high.  Then add on the various taxes other countries charge and it can be horrendous.

What gets us is the charge by volume.  Our packages weigh little, but, can sometimes be quite large (36x12x12).  $100 shipping on a $100 product.

Small parts.  USPS flat rate boxes/mailers.  Around $6 within the US.  Face it.  If you are buying something for less than $10 S&H is going to cost more than the part.  Just my time to process your order is more than that.

[oldbike54]

Yep, overseas shipping is high.  Then add on the various taxes other countries charge and it can be horrendous.

What gets us is the charge by volume.  Our packages weigh little, but, can sometimes be quite large (36x12x12).  $100 shipping on a $100 product.

Small parts.  USPS flat rate boxes/mailers.  Around $6 within the US.  Face it.  If you are buying something for less than $10 S&H is going to cost more than the part.  Just my time to process your order is more than that.

 Wait , what ? You expect to get paid for your time ? That is crazy man 

 Dusty

[charlie b]

Yeah, I know  :)  Some of our customers think because we are small (just my wife and I) that we should ship them stuff for free.  Others think that after a couple of orders they are our best friends and we should do favors for them.

One guy actually said, "I shouldn't have to pay for that, you should just thank me for for wanting one of your products."

[Curtis Harper]

In order to accurately calculate shipping charges the weight and dimension of each items needs to be entered under each item thruout the site. With the manpower budget that the average Moto Guzzi dealer has, it could be impossible for that to happen. In our case that is the situation. Add to that changing rates and then updating the costs everytimes something changes, it just is to overwhelming for most mom and pop shops.

We, as most dealers do, charge what we are charged for shipping. If there is an insurance charge, we charge that. We have a pretty good idea of which service is more affordable and default to that. Usually the USPS is the best idea. It is quite simple to check the vendor and see if the shipping cost is accurate by going to either usps.com or ups.com. Both sites have cost estimators. Take a few minutes, weigh Guzziology, go to USPS.com and calculate a price. Use MI's zip code to your and see what comes up. $15 is probably pretty darn close.

Then think about the mathematics. There are really only four strong Guzzi parts suppliers in the US. None of us can genuinely afford to rip-off our dwindling customer base over the cost of something we can not control. It's not good business. On the other hand if you really feel that you cannot trust them, I guess they may not need you as a customer in the first place. A good business relationship is trust and satisfaction on the side of both parties.

Shipments are calculated on weight, size, value and distance traveled. If you are in Alaska, it's is gonna cost a crap-ton more than Illinois. Where you shop may have gotten closer to order from because of the internet, however that archaic devise called a truck still has to traverse the same distance it did before the internet came along to get that item to you.

On our site you can check out as a guest, or create a profile and account, the choice is up to you. There is also a call with payment option so you can request shipping charges before you are actually charged for the part.

Then there is always the old fashioned telephone. It's much more personable.

[Triple Jim]

Then there is always the old fashioned telephone. It's much more personable.

I know you like the phone, Curtis, and I respect that, but to me it's more often than not a big time waster.  I'm the only guy making parts here, and once the customer starts telling me about the really fast H2 he had when he was 17, my productivity goes way down.

[frans belgium]

They just don't get it, do they ?

[kingoffleece]

Well, as I've always heard "better to be pissed off than pissed on".

[Curtis Harper]

Jim, how many item numbers are on your site?

[Triple Jim]

Probably about 1% of what you have.

www.lakeserv.net

[rodekyll]

We do our shipping charges based on cost of the order.  For our products it seems more fair that way.  And, you know the cost up front so the order can be cancelled if the shipping charge is considered not suitable.

FWIW, we usually "lose" money on shipping (which includes the cost of packaging and mailing), especially overseas.

Keep in mind that if the shipping charge is 'high' then the product price is probably lower.  If the shipping charge is 'low' it means the product price is adjusted up.

Before commenting on what it might or might not cost to do this, our little business (and many others these days) are one or two person operations.  There is no shipping department or automated processes.

How is it "more fair" to charge shipping based on the cost of the item rather than the cost of shipping?  Sounds like an effort to rationalize gouging -- like the dentist charging you according to the cost of his yacht rather than the cost of the filling.  Explain, please.

Costco used to let us phone in orders and they'd ship it for the cost of shipping.  I'd make big orders.  Then they started charging by the cost of shipping + a percentage of the purchase cost.  With all that and the purchase of the Costco card too, they became a non-player.  Nobody wants to work with overtly greedy people.

Shippers "surcharge" Alaska bound freight too, simply because it's going to Alaska -- not because it costs any more to get it there.  May each and every one of the greedy bastards lose their body hair in great patches!

$0.02

[rodekyll]

Just went a few rounds with an ebay seller.  Not a big item -- some track lighting stuff -- $25.80 and free shipping.  I pay and the deal goes through.  Then the seller emails me saying the free shipping costs $12.50 on account of it costs more to ship priority flat rate to Alaska, and that the 'surcharge feature of ebay' wasn't working right.  My choices were to pay the extortion or cancel the deal.  USPS flat rate is just that -- the same cost to wherever it's shipped.  It's as true for Alaska as for Kansas.  So the greedy son of a bitch is either too stupid to notice the bullshit he's typing, or else he thinks I'm dumber than he is.  Either way he's simply grabbing at the chance for additional revenue.

I reread the ad and saw nothing that suggested 'extra special fairness' for Alaska customers and wrote the seller back that he didn't get to make up the rules as he went along.  Since there was clearly nothing in the listing with this fee mentioned, the stand-up thing to do was to honor the terms of the contract that he, himself wrote.  The seller simply cancelled the deal, telling ebay I had refused to pay for the item.

[Guzzistajohn]

What burns my ass is a flame about 3 ft high! Have we done enough bitching here?