computer question

[father guzzi obrian]

Chuck,
Being a cretin myself, I looked at windows 8 and could not figure it out on a non-touch screen computer. So my only recourse was to buy the most powerful computer I could find that still came with Win7, a fairly nice Asus with an iCore7 with a bunch of cores (what ever that means) and 32 gig of Ram.  It works great, and it runs all my old software. When I spoke with various computer sellers about a newer computer, they told me that it was not feasible to back load Win7 as the drivers and other stuff would not be there. I don't know if this was marketing or not, but just wanted to pass this on. I would be amazed if you could find a new PC with Win7 locally, but perhaps on the innerneck... Bin your old one and keep the hard drive. PC's are dirt cheap, you can get an entire system for the price of a good mother board....   If all else fails, I have a nice Dell Laptop with an iCore 5 with 16 g of ram I could send your way, it works great with all of my oddball software, including autocad and ProE.   Back to the future man... 
Cheers my freind

[oldbike54]

 Kind of hard to access Wild Guzzi employing an abacus    Hmm , will a Ouija board work?

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

A lot to cover.

Gateway had their own physical layout for their motherboards.  The location of the slots and the little keyboard and usb ports were deliberately made different.  So unless you can find a genuine gateway board that fits that particular case, you'll have to chop the back out of the case to access the rear stuff or build the computer in a file cabinet drawer where you can get to all the stuff.

Yes, I read where you said SATA for your hard drive connection.  This drive, assuming it wasn't part of the meltdown, should attach to a modern computer.  32/64-bit doesn't matter for the data, which is all you'll get off it.  32/64 does matter to programs, but you won't be able to simply run your programs from a disk installed in another computer.  Programs need to be installed and the active e opsys made aware of them.

Serious workstations still have serial ports.  Look in the business and scientific sales area of your vendor.  You won't be getting native serial on a bargain machine.  Also, you can still buy expansion cards with serial ports.  Install one of those and you should still be able to configure com 2/4, which are the preferred ports for all serial.

Dusty, you're beginning to 'get it'.

And finally,  For a virtually unknown songster, we seem to quote John quite a bit on this forum.  Prime Prine Pride!

[oldbike54]

 David , I try  Oh , my guess is Mr Prine is a favorite among us , er , umm , well , let's call us unique folks 

 Dusty

[ITSec]

When I spoke with various computer sellers about a newer computer, they told me that it was not feasible to back load Win7 as the drivers and other stuff would not be there. I don't know if this was marketing or not, but just wanted to pass this on.

Actually, I just finished installing Windows 7 on a sixth-gen Intel motherboard (Skylake series). It's the very latest chipset, and one of the ones that supposedly is designed in such a way that Windows 7 can't be installed. It's a pure UEFI (non-BIOS, handles legacy through a 'thunking' layer), and has only USB3.0 (no 2.0 support except through OS-level drivers).

That may be true for the Geek Gang or other KFOOS (kids fresh out of school), but us guys that used to do memory management using CONFIG.SYS can still get around these issues. It involved creating a modified installation for Windows 7 on a USB stick, interrupting the installation to manually partition the hard drive and add the USB 3.0 drivers missing from Windows 7, and then continuing the installation. Not easy, not simple, but it can be done. If anybody wants instructions, ping me and I'll PM them or (with enough interest) post them here.

[tiger_one]

My head hurts!

My wife loaned me her touch screen laptop (Windows) while my apple was out, now after getting my apple back, I keep touching a non-touch screen.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yes, I read where you said SATA for your hard drive connection.  This drive, assuming it wasn't part of the meltdown, should attach to a modern computer.  32/64-bit doesn't matter for the data, which is all you'll get off it.  32/64 does matter to programs, but you won't be able to simply run your programs from a disk installed in another computer.  Programs need to be installed and the active e opsys made aware of them.

So you're saying that even if I jump through hoops and find an exact motherboard, install all my stuff on it, start it up, my programs won't run without re installing everything? Crap. In that case I might as well buy a used 32 bit machine that my programs will run on and be done with it.

[Wayne Orwig]

So you're saying that even if I jump through hoops and find an exact motherboard, install all my stuff on it, start it up, my programs won't run without re installing everything? Crap. In that case I might as well buy a used 32 bit machine that my programs will run on and be done with it.

No, if you do an exact mother board swap, all should work well. If it is the mother board that is bad, of course.
He is saying that if you put the old drive in a new PC, you will need to reinstall your program. 

[donn]

Really?  I don't doubt it, I just have very minimal experience with Microsoft Windows.  Where I come from, a program is just a special type of data file that can be loaded into memory and executed, irrespective of where it might be (and I suppose that would include the device cabling.)

[charlie b]

It depends on the program and the OS it was designed for.

[rodekyll]

Really?  I don't doubt it, I just have very minimal experience with Microsoft Windows.  Where I come from, a program is just a special type of data file that can be loaded into memory and executed, irrespective of where it might be (and I suppose that would include the device cabling.)

Really.  And by definition a data file is not an executable.

No, if you do an exact mother board swap, all should work well. If it is the mother board that is bad, of course.
He is saying that if you put the old drive in a new PC, you will need to reinstall your program. 

this.

If you make the old drive the active drive so it's using the copy of windows that the programs were loaded to it will work.  So if you found the same make and model of computer and made your old drive the boot drive you could dodge the bullet.  But that wasn't what you asked.

[Wayne Orwig]

Really?  I don't doubt it, I just have very minimal experience with Microsoft Windows.  Where I come from, a program is just a special type of data file that can be loaded into memory and executed, irrespective of where it might be (and I suppose that would include the device cabling.)

Many programs have ties to the registry. Then if it is uninstalled, it knows where everything is, like linked libraries and such, so it can clean it all up.
Some simple programs don't need that. GuzziDiag is like that. A simple executable, that has a local INI file to keep track of settings. No install needed.

[LaMojo]

Chuck.  When I mentioned that "You can probably buy a new motherboard for that machine for about $25 - $35 from Ebay" I didn't realize it would cause so much confusion.  When I said "that machine" I should have said a NOS factory replacement board specific to that computer normally used in warranty and repair work.  These are duplicates of the original motherboard and modifications to the chassis or the power connections are not needed or required.   Not an upgrade either.  Just plug and play back to where you were.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, I think I have a handle on it now.  I'm going to drop it off to a computer guy and *cough cough* pay him to put a new motherboard in it while we head to the Nationals. (Assuming that's what the problem is.)
We'll be gone a month, and when we get back, I have to make a bunch of oiler parts and nozzles for a steel mill. I'm short on time, or I'd do it myself. Even I can swap parts in a computer, sort of like a Guzzi parts changer instead of a real mechanic..
Thanks, all. WG rocks!

[rodekyll]

Just specify that he has to do it without disturbing your hard drive and that your hard drive needs to boot and run the opsys.  If he messes with the hard drive all bets abut your cadd program working are off.

[donn]

Disturb the hard drive?  Is that a technical term?

[rodekyll]

Disturb the hard drive?  Is that a technical term?

It's an understandable term.  I don't make assumptions about the expertise of computer technicians.  One reason I'm getting out of the game is that the last place that wanted me to subcontract was insisting that I pay for a huge battery of background checks -- criminal, drug, financial, deadbeat dad, domestic violence, etc.  But nobody asked diddly squat about my ability to do the work.  They care very much about you ever running a stop sign, but don't care at all if you know the difference between a screwdriver and pudding.  So I use simple words with them when possible.

[donn]

That puts me in a position that reflects awkwardly on my intelligence, because I don't understand it, I mean unambiguously.  Are we talking about the disk as a medium, so please avoid writing to it, or the items stored on that medium, so please avoid any changes to file content or directory structure, or the physical device must remain attached to the same adaptor plugs, or (I guess least likely but what it sounds most like) do not move the disk drive?  If the computer came back with all the data restored to a new solid state drive?  etc.

[rodekyll]

Are you doing this or is a technician doing it?

[ITSec]

That puts me in a position that reflects awkwardly on my intelligence, because I don't understand it, I mean unambiguously.  Are we talking about the disk as a medium, so please avoid writing to it, or the items stored on that medium, so please avoid any changes to file content or directory structure, or the physical device must remain attached to the same adaptor plugs, or (I guess least likely but what it sounds most like) do not move the disk drive?  If the computer came back with all the data restored to a new solid state drive?  etc.

The drive's contents, including how it is partitioned, formatted, addressed, its place in the boot order of devices, the data it contains, etc. all need to match - before and after the new MB is installed. If this is done, all should be copesthetic. If anything changes, all bets are off. Cables, etc can be changed like for like, as you are doing with the motherboard, but the cables should be connected to the same connection points on the new board as they were on the old. This is what is meant by not disturbing the drive - the only thing in the system that changes is the MB and possibly the processor (if not moved form the old MB, i.e., it's a soldered component).

[charlie b]

Yep, and the old drive has to remain the "C" drive or the program may not recognize where it is at either.  BTDT numerous times.