Tubed tires

[drlapo]

I've been riding with tubed tires for 50 years.
I've had only a very few flats and all have been off road.
Probably fewer than 4 flats total. In fact I can only remember one.+
I know many riders now avoid tubed tires.
Why?

[fotoguzzi]

Ease of repair roadside.. I hate removing the wheel then getting the tire off, patch tube, replace tire/tube and put back on bike. OR, plug, inflate, ride.

[sib]

Most of us know of one disadvantage of tubed tires, they're harder to repair on the road.  Maybe there are others that someone can fill us in on.  The only advantage I know about is that some spoked rims more or less require tubed tires.  Again, I'd like to know of other advantages.  I'm sure the experts here will supply this info shortly.

[charlie b]

Ease of repair on road. 

Usually a tubeless tire runs cooler but some might debate that.  Tubes are one more failure point.

I've had more flats with tubes than with tubeless.  Coincidence?  Maybe.

I converted mine from tubed to tubeless (mag wheels so it was just installing the proper stem) and am really happy.  FWIW, I converted cause the last time a dealer changed the tubed tire, they let the little washer get loose.  It wedged between the tube and tire and cause a leak.  See, another point for failure that you don't get with a tubeless (I also now change my own tires).

If I were doing off road where rock cuts are a problem, I'd rather have tubed tires, but, on paved road or dirt road, give me tubeless.

[drlapo]

In my experience tubed tires don't appear to be more prone to failure.
I agree the roadside repair is tedious

[Wayne Orwig]

I've been riding with tubed tires for 50 years.
I've had only a very few flats and all have been off road.
Probably fewer than 4 flats total. In fact I can only remember one.+
I know many riders now avoid tubed tires.
Why?

Doesn't bother me one way or the other.

Many people refuse to buy a bike with tube tires. When you ask them, they CLAIM it is easier to do a roadside repair on a tubeless tire. When you ask them what plugs and pump setup they are carrying in case they have a flat, the answer a high percentage of the times is, they aren't carrying ANYTHING.
In other words, a high percentage of them are CLUELESS as to why.

[Gliderjohn]

My probably unique experience, Norge with tubeless, four flats in 12K miles. T-3 with tube tires, two flats in about 80K miles. Me think just the luck of the draw.
GliderJohn

[Sheepdog]

You don't necessarily have to remove a wheel to execute a temporary repair on a tube. In fact, conducting such a repair will likely compromise balance and should really be a "last resort". For most simple flats, just remove the cause of the puncture, remove the tube's valve core, pour in some Slime, replace the valve core, inflate the tire, and spin the wheel to fully distribute the sealant. Done.

There are times when a wheel must come off. In the event that more substantial damage occurs (like a short slice or tear), a tubed tire can be temporarily repaired with a tire boot and a fresh tube. If the same happens to a tubeless tire...you're going to have to call Triple A.

[rocker59]

I prefer tubeless.  I carry plugs and an air pump.  I've had at least six flats over the past 20 years, many of them in the middle of nowhere.  My plug kit gets me back on the road in minutes.

Pulling a wheel and patching a tube at roadside is way down at the bottom of my wish list.

I've owned several bikes with tubes.  Luckily, the only time I got a flat with tubes, I was in the parking lot at a dealership!

[Texas Turnip]

Tubes are expensive and one more thing to carry when you travel.
Good luck in calling Triple A when you travel the back roads.

Tex

[mtiberio]

no one mentions that with tubeless tires, you can carry the nail or screw for weeks or months before you know it is there (I consider this a GOOD thing). The heads will literally be ground down, and the tire didn't lose any air (this is why you should check your tire tread periodically). With tubes, air loss is almost always immediate (and I might add, can be rapid enough to be dangerous). Tubeless tires lose air slowly, or not at all, puncture for puncture. Yes, some tubes (eg: natural rubber which unfortunately seeps air slowly, requiring pressure checks often) envelop the nail more than butyl which tears easy. So at best you can only get close to the nail sealing ability of a tubeless tire with some expensive tubes. Bottom line, nothing is safer than tubeless, and yes, when I tour, I carry a stop-n-go patch kit and a pump.

FWIW, If slime works in a punctured tube (which I have never seen), it sure as heck is going to work better in a punctured tubeless tire.

[Triple Jim]

no one mentions that with tubeless tires, you can carry the nail or screw for weeks or months before you know it is there (I consider this a GOOD thing). The heads will literally be ground down, and the tire didn't lose any air (this is why you should check your tire tread periodically).

Funny... someone was kind enough to leave a note on my 1972 Kawasaki H2 at the Bull City Rumble in 2014.  It said I had a nail in my rear (tubeless) tire.  Sure enough, there's one in it.  I can tell it goes all the way through because it will blow a small bubble very slowly if I put soap solution on it.  It's still there, and will get thrown away with the tire when I put a new one on shortly.  I'm not recommending that anyone not repair a nail puncture, but I didn't bother this time.

[drlapo]

what about the rim seal coversions that allow the use of a tubeless tire on a spokes wheel?
Any good?

[charlie b]

There used to be a thread in here by Greg Field about how to convert a spoked rim to tubeless.  Involved a lot of RTV and a rim strip IIRC.  I think he even made sure he could still adjust the spokes.

Don't know about a commercial kit but I'd bet it works.

[rodekyll]

I have yet to find tubeless 18 and 19" tires with flat profiles for sidecar and trike use.  I went through a lot of trouble to fit the trike with tubeless rims and discovered the lack of skins for them later.  If anyone knows of a flat profile TL tire in 18 and 19"  (18 front 19 rear) please tell me about it.

[Huzo]

what about the rim seal coversions that allow the use of a tubeless tire on a spokes wheel?
Any good?

That's something I'd like to hear about, what's the set up there ?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I converted my Eldorado to tubeless using RTV it would last a week or two then start to leak out the spoke nipples. I since put a tube in the back and still running tubeless in front. I since found out there is something wrong with the GE silicone I was using, it doesn't really get a good bond to the Aluminium so I will have another go with a better product.

The one I'm currently running in the front sticks like s--- to an Army blanket as my dear old Mum would say.

[BoatDoc]

In about 250K miles I've had an equal number of flats (3) on each tubed and tubeless. I think it is luck.

A few other considerations:

- if you get a tire for tubes it usually has a less stiff sidewall. That makes it easier to get on and off the rim.

- when replacing a tire the tubeless ones sometimes have an issue setting the bead. I tried every trick the forums had but could not set the bead on a TKC-80 rear and ended  up having to take the wheel to a tire store. Almost never an issue with tubes.

[Tony/CT]

( if you get a tire for tubes it usually has a less stiff sidewall. That makes it easier to get on and off the rim.)

All the tires I buy are marked tubeless and tubes are put in them for my tubeless rims. I never saw a tire marked for tubes.

[mtiberio]

I converted my Eldorado to tubeless using RTV it would last a week or two then start to leak out the spoke nipples. I since put a tube in the back and still running tubeless in front. I since found out there is something wrong with the GE silicone I was using, it doesn't really get a good bond to the Aluminium so I will have another go with a better product.

The one I'm currently running in the front sticks like s--- to an Army blanket as my dear old Mum would say.

One shop that (used to?) offer spoked rim sealing (woody's wheel works) told me they use aircraft gas tank sealant. YMMV

[Dave Swanson]

( if you get a tire for tubes it usually has a less stiff sidewall. That makes it easier to get on and off the rim.)

All the tires I buy are marked tubeless and tubes are put in them for my tubeless rims. I never saw a tire marked for tubes.

This reminds me of a conversation with a middle aged (or more) Harley rider.   He had a Harley model with a spoked front wheel.  Somehow the subject of tubes came up.  I mentioned that his tire had a tube due to the spoked rim.   He scoffed at that notion and VERY indignantly pointed to the sidewall of the tire with great pleasure and stated "see right here! It says "tubeless".  There wasn't any point going further with that conversation.

[BoatDoc]

Hi Tony/CT,

Yes, tires come in tubed or tubeless styles and yes, many people put tubes in tubeless tires. In addition to the sidewall stiffness I mentioned, the bead is shaped differently. On tire specs you will see them described differently as TL or TT. For instance, for the Heidenau K60 the tire sizes are shown below (from http://heidenautires.com/dual-sport-tires/). I've often found that the tubeless are a little less expensive.

Scout 130/80 – 17 M/C 65T TL
Scout 140/80 – 17 M/C 69T TL
Scout 150/70 B 17 M/C 69T TL
Scout 170/60 B 17 M/C 72S TL
Scout 4.00 – 18 M/C 64T TT
Scout 140/80 – 18 M/C 70S TT
Scout 150/70 B 18 M/C 70T TL
Scout 110/80 B 19 M/C 59T TL
Scout 120/70 B 19 M/C 60S TL
Scout 90/90 – 21 M/C 54T TL
K60 120/90 – 17 M/C 68T TT
K60 120/90 – 18 M/C 71T TT
K60 110/80 – 18 M/C 58S TT
K60 120/80 – 18 M/C 62T TT
K60 130/80 – 18 M/C 72T TT
K60 100/90 – 19 M/C 57H TL
K60 90/90 – 21 M/C 54T TT

     

[leafman60]

If you run an internal sealing fluid (Slime etc) in your tire tubes, you will most likely never have a roadside repair.

I have done this for many, many years.  I have certainly picked up a stray nail every once in a while but the internally-sealed tire stayed up to pressure until convenient to repair it.

I have several bikes now with tubes that are properly sealed with Slime. These days, I do this mostly with the rear tire since I've never had a front puncture.  Usually, the front tire flips up the projectile that then pierces the rear tire.

By the way, there was a time when several suppliers maintained that this internal sealing fluid also balanced the tires.  Sorta the same effect as the current tire beads that people use.

I typically install a new tube when I replace a tire.  I balance the assembly first and then add the sealer.

On my main rides, I carry an inflator or compressor, sealer and tubeless plugs.  More often than not, I end up repairing someone else's flat tire rather than my own.

[Farmer Dan]

I had the front tire blow out on a GT750 years ago.  Since then I've put slime in both front and rear tires. Haven't had a flat since.

[anotheroldtrailrider]

I know this is a little far into the life of the thread, but it's a subject I've had some experience with.  Tubeless tires with tubes do tend to run a little hotter than without the tube, and are unnecessarily heavier.  It affects everything from the overall weight of the bike, specifically the unsprung weight, and worst of all, the centrifugal force that has to be generated before the bike accelerates, and then absorbed by the brakes before the bike can start to slow.  I routinely seal rims on all my street bikes to run tubless if they're the correct profile rims.  Any rim stamped "MT" is the appropriate profile to run tubeless, and there's an older European stamping, but I forget the designation (I haven't seen one in decades).  I seal mine with a two-part urethane rubber, but anything that would hold air could be used - the urethane is just easy to paint on.  On spoked rims, I stick a little paper price-tag dot over the end of the nipple before painting the center up to the edges of the little ridge that (hopefully) holds the tire in place if it goes flat - that allows spoke adjustment without tearing the rubber seal.  There are several sizes and shapes of tubless tire valves, and if the rim has holes for rim locks, obviously they also have to be covered prior to rubber sealing.

I've got a set of 10 year old 17's used on several KTM supermoto style street bikes that have been sealed for years, as have several wheels done for friends, and any vintage stuff I intend to actually use gets converted, too.  The seal doesn't have to contribute anything to the wheel itself as long as it's the correct profile rim - it just has to hold air.

[Eskiemong]

Just couple weekends ago, my 2016 V7 II special got a flat on the front tire.  Luckily the bike was parked and I was off the bike when it happened. The thing went completely flat within 5 seconds.  We believe the tube wasn't seated right in the factory.  The hole was huge and there were numerous other weak spots that could have burst any moment along the tube.  I had to wait until a nearby bike shop opened to come tow my bike, which resulted in us being stuck in the town for an extra day.

What was really confusing to me was that the tire had "Tubeless" printed on it.  So now I learned that most modern tires are tubeless but with spoked rim the inner tubes are put in anyway. If it was a small puncture, I think I could have gotten away with sealing it with tube slime and ride to the closest bike shop without being stranded. But I'd much prefer to be able to seal and pump air in and get going.  I don't personally see any benefit of tubed tire...

[Tom]

WT, IIRC is the other designation for the rims.  Supposedly the lip of the rims are different for retaining the bead.

[Seamaster]

i went tubeless because you can pulg them, pump, and play, not so with tubed tires.

[fotoguzzi]

   I don't personally see any benefit of tubed tire...

there is none.

[sign216]

You don't necessarily have to remove a wheel to execute a temporary repair on a tube. In fact, conducting such a repair will likely compromise balance and should really be a "last resort". For most simple flats, just remove the cause of the puncture, remove the tube's valve core, pour in some Slime, replace the valve core, inflate the tire, and spin the wheel to fully distribute the sealant. Done.

There are times when a wheel must come off. In the event that more substantial damage occurs (like a short slice or tear), a tubed tire can be temporarily repaired with a tire boot and a fresh tube. If the same happens to a tubeless tire...you're going to have to call Triple A.

I've never heard of repairing a tube tire without patching/replacing the tube.  Sheepdog, have done you the above "in place" repair yourself?  How did it work out?