Cal. 14 Custom or Victory Octane/Indian Scout?

[Travlr]

As a long time Guzzi rider I lean to the Cal.  But Polaris is doing a lot of stuff right and has a superior dealer network.  Left over Cals are similar in price to the Octane/Scout. 

I'd be interested in the thoughts of those who have experienced both.  As owners or test rides.

Mike

[rocker59]

I've not ridden a recent Victory, but the seats are too low for my liking.  Ergos not really good for me.

Scout is in a different class..  Much lighter than the California.  Nice engine and transmission, but not a lot of ground clearance if you like curves.  Seating on the Scout is not to my liking.  Seat too low.  Pegs too far forward.  Fuel tank too small.

Cal 14 is comfortable and powerful, but heavy.  And, if you need a convenient, competent dealer, you'll be left wanting in most of The Country.

[Red Dog]

Owned a Cal14 test ridden the Octane.

Two totally different bikes.

Octane is light, fast & fun for a short blast. 
Wanna light up a rear tire? OCTANE
Wanna shock some other riders coming off the line? OCTANE
Harsh suspension but very decent brakes.  Performance stuff easily available & the tuners already know what mods to make.
Handling not bad for a feet forward bike but you will drag parts with moderate riding.
Test rode one then bought a Griso.

C14:
Well.  Love Hate the C14.  That engine is great with a lot of potential, loved the different maps.
The handling is truly amazing for a bike of that size & can be made better if you are a real aggressive rider but you are on a cruiser not a sport bike.  So for me the bike was a mixed emotion type of ride.

I bought it thinking long distant cruiser but rear tires every 6000 miles, 32 mpg avg, PITA fluid changes made me start thinking about stripping it down & making a 1400 almost Griso roadster.  Then the bike started with issues that I won't go into here & at that time I was really convinced that I was retiring and going touring so the C14 went bye & I bought a Victory Tour.

My life has changed again, I won't be touring for some time if ever & with that being said I find myself looking at Cycle trader for used 1400's.

Two very different bikes.

What do you expect, want or need from a bike?  Hopefully I have given you enuf to decide.
Just remember get whatever you are most drawn to because you can always add one more or trade off.
When it comes to bikes there are no bad choices they are all fun.

[Travlr]

Thank you both for those very cogent posts.  I did stop by a Victory dealer today and sit on the Octane.  I'm probably of a different stature than Mike as the seat height didn't bother me.  The forward controls aren't to my liking, but the dealer tells me midcontrols are available.

Dog, two of your comments struck me.  One was the poor mileage on the C14.  Have not heard that before.  The other was reliability.  I've always had multiple bikes so I had something to ride if a Guzzi was down.  But that may be changing.  My buddies with Victories just seem to have no problems.  Near Japanese level reliability.  Most C14's seem to be ok.  But now and then I hear stories like yours.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mike

[LowRyter]

the Cal 14 and the Indian/Victory twins aren't comparable in any meaningful way.

[Red Dog]

Thank you both for those very cogent posts.  I did stop by a Victory dealer today and sit on the Octane.  I'm probably of a different stature than Mike as the seat height didn't bother me.  The forward controls aren't to my liking, but the dealer tells me midcontrols are available.

Dog, two of your comments struck me.  One was the poor mileage on the C14.  Have not heard that before.  The other was reliability.  I've always had multiple bikes so I had something to ride if a Guzzi was down.  But that may be changing.  My buddies with Victories just seem to have no problems.  Near Japanese level reliability.  Most C14's seem to be ok.  But now and then I hear stories like yours.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mike

Mileage does get better with age but I don't know anyone who gets 40 with a C14 if they are penciling it out & not relying on the computer.
Reliability & no Guzzi dealer within a days ride: a new 2011 Cali Black Eagle with some issues then a C14 with lots of stuff & I'm thinking wow after 40 years on Guzzi's I'm not impressed. 

So I jumped onto the Victory but I still own 3 Guzzi's.  Vic's are a great bike, very dependable, long life, easy & not expensive to maintain.
 Lot of good reasons to own one but they are not as thrilling as a goose.  When I get off the Vic I turn & walk away just like I did when I owned cars or trucks.  I get off a Guzzi & I'm still wanting to ride so I don't think I will ever go Guzzi less again.

Not having owned an Octane I can't say much more about it except I think the thrill of it will pass rather quickly & the thirst for another Guzzi will soon come along.  The Octane would make a great stable mate but I don't think I would own one as a primary ride.

[Doppelgaenger]

I've ridden both the Scout and the Chief. I can't say I've ridden the Cal14, but if you want to compare bikes then the Chief is where you need to look.

In my view, the scout was a powerful rocket with little ability to turn and crap brakes (single front disc and heavier than my breva 1100). It has more of the spirit of a guzzi in the sense that it loves to rev, but that's about where the similarities end. The engine is almost unbelievably smooth, but above 5000 rpms it vibrates in many places, none of which are pleasant, and this was the main deal breaker for me. It also lacks a tach and instead has a digital one that only gives you a rough idea of where you are. I would never buy one myself because of the vibration, although a woman might really enjoy where it buzzes...

The Chief is just relaxing to ride, it has massive torque in every gear and looks better in my eyes. This was the bike that made me "get it" as far as cruisers are concerned. If I were to buy a cruiser, this would probably be the one I would get. If I'm going to go in a straight line, I'd much rather be comfortable. It also has better brakes.

All modern Indians are really beautifully built machines, it's a pity they can't break the mold and make a standard bike once and for all.

[Aaron D.]

I have a lot of miles on a Scout, some on a Chief and a 1/2 hour demo on a Cal under my belt.

The Guzzi is very Italian, feels nice, I dragged bits on the demo but no big deal.

The Chief is huge. Not at all to my taste but fun, and if you like a bike of that sort it is the one.

The Scout-well, I have quite a few 500+ mile days on mine. I put the reduced reach foot controls and I think it has better clearance than the Cali. Very fun bike. I recommend an Airhawk for rides lasting 4 hours or more.

The Scout is dead reliable, gets about 50 MPG (I got 53 on one tank last week) is very easy to service and rides like a nice loop frame. I can lock both wheels- not as easily as some bikes but I'm used to it.

Try it. You can go anywhere on it. I love it on dirt roads.

[rocker59]

I've ridden both the Scout and the Chief. I can't say I've ridden the Cal14, but if you want to compare bikes then the Chief is where you need to look.

In my view, the scout was a powerful rocket with little ability to turn and crap brakes (single front disc and heavier than my breva 1100). It has more of the spirit of a guzzi in the sense that it loves to rev, but that's about where the similarities end. The engine is almost unbelievably smooth, but above 5000 rpms it vibrates in many places, none of which are pleasant, and this was the main deal breaker for me. It also lacks a tach and instead has a digital one that only gives you a rough idea of where you are. I would never buy one myself because of the vibration, although a woman might really enjoy where it buzzes...

The Chief is just relaxing to ride, it has massive torque in every gear and looks better in my eyes. This was the bike that made me "get it" as far as cruisers are concerned. If I were to buy a cruiser, this would probably be the one I would get. If I'm going to go in a straight line, I'd much rather be comfortable. It also has better brakes.

All modern Indians are really beautifully built machines, it's a pity they can't break the mold and make a standard bike once and for all.

I think price is a consideration for the OP.  The bikes mentioned being available for about $8,000 less than a Chief.

I've been riding different bikes over the past few years, and the one new bike in this class that I would 100% buy right now, cost no object, is an Indian Springfield.  While I love the Cal 14, I'm just not convinced it would be the all-around touring-cruiser that would satisfy me.  The poor fuel economy and relatively small fuel tank, along with the various reports of issues, not to mention the long drive to a dealer to deal with electronic stuff that's over my head has me on the fence about the bike.

The only other new bike I know I'd buy, cost no object, is the MOTUS MST-R.  It is the quintessential SPORT-touring bike.

But I digress.  If I was limited to an Octane, a Scout, or a Cal 14, I'd choose the Cal-14.   

[rboe]

Mike; Andy was talking about mileage on his California, especially on the Datil run. It sucked gas like crazy unless he used the cruise control. I guess, like the Griso, that throttle is too willing to make the face grin - at a cost. He was well into the 40's using cruise control. Talk to him about that.

Several in our crew have the Scout (Doc rode his to coffee this weekend because it was the one he could get out of the garage, normally his girlfriend rides it) and he likes it. One of the guys on the CB forum test rode the Scout and just did not like it at all - first negative report I've ever heard for the Scout so maybe he had a bad sample - but I think the Scout would fit you better than the others.

Personally, I feel seduced by the larger Indians.  JJ loves his big Victory and it is a mile eater. After the Indian came out the Victory line lost some luster for me. Very subjective. You mention Japanese quality, I hear nothing but good things about the FJR1300 sport tourer, you may have to check them out. 

[Kev m]

I guess I sorta get this comparison. They're both alternatives to the mainstream cruiser scene.

Granted, the C14 is A BIG bike, but it's lighter than most the touring cruiser segment and handles better. Personally I'm disjointed in the size, lack of efficiency, and that rear tire.

The Octane/Scout are right sized alternatives, if you're willing to give up a little comfort. They handle well enough, are plenty powerful, and are smaller and lighter than the big touring cruisers which is a plus.

As much as I liked riding the Chief variants, they might be a bridge too far in size.

Hell even the RK feels more right sized then the C14 or Chiefs.

[Lcarlson]

I guess I sorta get this comparison. They're both alternatives to the mainstream cruiser scene.

Granted, the C14 is A BIG bike, but it's lighter than most the touring cruiser segment and handles better. Personally I'm disjointed in the size, lack of efficiency, and that rear tire.

The Octane/Scout are right sized alternatives, if you're willing to give up a little comfort. They handle well enough, are plenty powerful, and are smaller and lighter than the big touring cruisers which is a plus.

As much as I liked riding the Chief variants, they might be a bridge too far in size.

Hell even the RK feels more right sized then the C14 or Chiefs.

Having spent a week on a new Road King last year, I would advise that it is a heavier, less agile cruiser than the Cali 14. Inferior to the Cali in just about every way, but I still liked it for what it is. The Octane/Scouts are simply not comparable in any meaningful way.

[Kev m]

Having spent a week on a new Road King last year, I would advise that it is a heavier, less agile cruiser than the Cali 14. Inferior to the Cali in just about every way, but I still liked it for what it is. The Octane/Scouts are simply not comparable in any meaningful way.

My point was perception of overall size and preferences for something that subjectively feels/looks smaller.

I'm well aware of the small differences in actual mass (C14T vs RK, the C14 is only 50# lighter), but when I said the RK was more right-sized I was talking dimensionally (length, wheelbase, hell ever width).

Which is a way i find it superior to the C14.

The differences in handling I find subjectively irrelevant.

YMMV.

[Zoom Zoom]

Kev, the rear tire is exactly what kept me from pulling the trigger sooner. They reverted to a 180 on the 1400 Eldo, the same tire that fits the RK.

I realize some don't like the ergos of this type of bike, but I find it very comfortable and capable on the road. Even though my shorts are in a bunch over factory hard bags, or lack there of, I still have no regret in getting the bike.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled program.

John Henry

[toaster404]

Scout is a short ride bike unless you're really built weird. Wonderful engine.  As mentioned above, Chieftain is the comp.  Nice, handles fine for a cruiser, very impressive etc.  Heavy as all getout and doesn't really feel light at any point.  Octane I sat on.  Probably fun, but I would need back surgery after 400 miles.

Cali 1400 - love/hate is right.  Saddle sucks.  I wish upon a star that nothing breaks.  Mileage if actually used is remarkably low, about like my Avalon on the Interstate!!!!    Loafing along at the 50 mph sweet spot probably around 50 mpg.  I've not seen such a variation in mileage on a bike before!!   Very sensitive engine to everything.  First remap made great difference.  Must get over / up / out to a good dealer (always 3.5 hours each way) to get MAP checked.  Valves get a little off and doesn't like it.  Mine is fuel sensitive. 

Within a short period I rode the Indian line, Road King, and then California.  Bought the California.  Oddball bike, but is probably what a Road King dreams about waking up to be.  I now think of the Road King as a city bike for police. 

The insane thing about the Cali is that it can sit on cruise on the Interstate, carve in the hills, and survive on gravel.  Gravel not fun, but it's OK (every ride I take from here starts on gravel).  The Chiefton I seriously doubt I could get out of here on without terror.  Scout, yes, bigger Indians, no.

But I'd still love a Chiefton in the stable. And Mrs. Toaster wants a Scout, but knows better.

[Kev m]

Kev, the rear tire is exactly what kept me from pulling the trigger sooner. They reverted to a 180 on the 1400 Eldo, the same tire that fits the RK.

I realize some don't like the ergos of this type of bike, but I find it very comfortable and capable on the road. Even though my shorts are in a bunch over factory hard bags, or lack there of, I still have no regret in getting the bike.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled program.

John Henry

Yeah, that fact did NOT go unnoticed to me and if I went with a C14 in the future, the Eldo would likely be my first pick for reasons including that.

Though I should say, I still remember when MY RK in the 90s had a 130 REAR tire!

Of course, factory hard bags are another bone of contention (as I don't like the OEM T ones anyway).

[Lcarlson]

The actual mileage is a little disappointing -- on a recent trip of mostly secondary roads, I got about 35 mpg (the computer said 47). Surprisingly, the saddle is about the only one I DON'T feel a need to replace; as long as I get off once in a while, it's comfortable. May have something to do with the slight forward lean of the Custom that shifts some weight to the thighs. Otherwise, I'm very pleased with the performance and versatility of this big bike.

[Zoom Zoom]

Interesting, my trip shows lower than the actual mileage. I get a consistent 45 on my bike. That is gallons against GPS miles.

ZZ

[Toecutter]

I do NOT like the ergos on the Scout, one bit. Feet way too far forward, too much weight on my ass... not a fan at all.

[Aaron D.]

Hey Toaster, how did you know I was funny-looking?

[toaster404]

Hey Toaster, how did you know I was funny-looking?

Well, anyone is funny looking after 500 miles on a Scout!!

[LowRyter]

Hey Toaster, how did you know I was funny-looking?

[Aaron D.]

I see my wife has been uploading the family videos again..

[mjptexas]

..... While I love the Cal 14, I'm just not convinced it would be the all-around touring-cruiser that would satisfy me.  The poor fuel economy and relatively small fuel tank, along with the various reports of issues, not to mention the long drive to a dealer to deal with electronic stuff that's over my head has me on the fence .....

Hmmm.  For what it's worth, closing on 14,000 miles on my Cali Custom:
- If you keep it below 75 mph you'll get over 40 mpg.  Like most big block Guzzis your mileage will go to Hell if you really flog it.
- I can do 180-200 highway mikes on a tank if I keep it at or below 75.
- Issues? I have had zero issues (hope I'm not jinxing myself).

And you get a comfortable, great handling road bike!

[mjptexas]

Kev, the rear tire is exactly what kept me from pulling the trigger sooner. They reverted to a 180 on the 1400 Eldo, the same tire that fits the RK.

OK, I'm confused.  Why such an aversion to the 200 series tire on the back of the Cali?

[Zoom Zoom]

My only real complaint regarding the 200 back tire, is longevity vs. cost, and selection. When I was looking closely at this, I was reading that most were getting 6 to 8 thou out of the back tire. There were few choices and they were 300 bucks. I have taken a couple of road trips that might have needed a new rear tire before I returned home, even if I began on fresh rubber.

By virtue of H-D using the same 180 that goes on the back of the Eldo, my tire selection has expanded greatly. Many of those tires are 200 bucks, and I am aware that many can last 15K miles.

Now I understand that unforeseen things happen, and I could need to replace a tire on a trip, but I prefer not needing because of wear.

So, 6 to 8K for 300 vs. 10 to 15K for 200, (not including mounting and balancing).

(Please note that I have not paid much attention to this for a while and may no longer be the issue that I perceive it to be.)

John Henry

[lucian]

fwiw I just returned from a 7oo mile trip on the custom 14 to the Adirondacks. Most all secondary roads and two up with luggage in mountainous terrain. We burned a total of 16.5 gallons of fuel, so 42 mpg. The bike performed flawlessly as has been the case for 12,000 miles thus far. Also I changed the rear tire myself before we left and was surprised how easy that 6" 200 tire peeled of the rim with just spoons. Other than having to remove the mufflers and the rear drive unit( 4 bolts) it was remarkably easy to do. Really ingenious design of the rear brake carrier. As I continue to familiarize with the build on this machine the more impressive it becomes from a design stand point.It also makes a super tourer if the ergos work for you.
.At this point I am very pleased with the custom for what it is and would not hesitate to purchase one again.

[Red Dog]

Other than having to remove the mufflers and the rear drive unit( 4 bolts) it was remarkably easy to do.

Don't have to pull the rear unit to change tire & only the left side shock.  Don't remember if I had to drop mufflers.

I used tie straps on the front with a front wheel chock & jacked the bike up.  Had plenty of room to pull wheel.  The big problem I had was they never put the lock ring on at the factory & almost no grease on the splines so when I pulled the wheel the (drive hub?? memory not so good) came with it.  I had to wiggle & jiggle to seperate them.   Went easier the second time with the grease, was going to order the snap ring but traded bike off.

[Kev m]

OK, I'm confused.  Why such an aversion to the 200 series tire on the back of the Cali?

I know you're asking Zoom, but since I expressed the same thought let me answer as well.

In addition to Zoom's objections, I have one of both aesthetics and function/feel, and it is a symptom of how I feel about the Cali vs. the RK OVERALL.

I measure bikes of this type by comparison to the one I owned that I liked best. My 1996 RK was ~700# wet, 2 in. shorter in overall length, ~3.5" shorter in wheelbase, and ran on 130 series tires front and back.

I distinctly remember how light and effortless my RK felt thanks to the reverse triple trees and relatively aggressive steering head angle.

I've ridden a number of the contemporary versions of these bikes - Indian, Vic, Harley, and the Cali and though I LIKE the Cali, there was no clear cut advantage to the fit, feel, or handling TO ME (meaning for my USAGE).

Sure it's possible that at 9/10s the Cali might walk away from most or all of the others. But if the others do what I WANT just as well, that's a moot point.

Anyway, those other bikes have all porked-up too, including the RK. And yeah, instead of being 50# lighter than the Cali, the current RK is 50# HEAVIER. The current RK is JUST as long as the Cali, though it has retained more than a 2" advantage in shorter wheelbase.

The fact is:

* I don't like the weight on any of them.

* I don't like the huge tires on any of them.

* I don't like the PERCEPTION of excessive size on any of them.

But at least, to me, the RK feels like it is smaller (either from the rider's perspective, or from just standing next to it), and I prefer the aesthetics of it. And I think the "smaller" 180 series tire contributes to both of those things.

In addition I REALLY like the bag system MUCH better on the RK, and the quick-disconnect shield, and a number of other features, but that's really going further than this thread.

To tie it back INTO THIS THREAD - that's one of the reasons I've looked so closely at things like the Scout/Octane (and my current "touring" Sportster).

[lucian]

Don't have to pull the rear unit to change tire & only the left side shock.  Don't remember if I had to drop mufflers.

I used tie straps on the front with a front wheel chock & jacked the bike up.  Had plenty of room to pull wheel.  The big problem I had was they never put the lock ring on at the factory & almost no grease on the splines so when I pulled the wheel the (drive hub?? memory not so good) came with it.  I had to wiggle & jiggle to seperate them.   Went easier the second time with the grease, was going to order the snap ring but traded bike off.

I found the same thing RD. The dealer performed the first tire change and I assume they did not replace the hub retaining clip.  I had to pull the rear drive as the drive hub splines were so dry I couldn't separate it from the rim to drop the wheel out. Like you I cleaned up and greased the splines and hopefully it will separate easier next time around. I am interested in why you parted ways with the 14 ? dave