UNBELIEVABLE Crap quality of Valeo Starters

[rodekyll]

I just failed my 3rd valeo starter in about as many years.  This one stopped engaging the engine ring gear and jut bounced and spun.  I took it apart.  Inside it was choked with rust scale and a mud made of electrical stuff -- brushes carbon, and other detritus.  I used a spoon to dig it out.  Magnets broken from the housing.  Slinger broken.  Even the armature is frayed.  Yeah.  FRAYED.  And fuzzy crap from the fraying all over the inside.  How does THAT happen?  How is it even POSSIBLE?

[take a breath]

There is literally nothing salvageable of this unit.  Last time it was magnets jamming the armature and chewing all that stuff up.  The time before it was the reduction gears in the nose eating themselves to a greasy paste.  Out of three carcasses I can't find enough good parts to make one.  Oh -- and there are minor parts variances throughout the three dead units -- armature shaft end lengths and diameters, slinger styles, etc.  So there is no predictable interchange between starters of the same part#.

[RANT OFF]

Is there no end?

[guzzisteve]

Maybe try the Chinese copy that's on all the new bikes, been there a few years now.
Don't know if they are the same as the $75 ones on ebay, I doubt it cause they fit & work.

[ITSec]

Isn't there a Bosch starter that is a match for the Valeo? The factory Bosch I had lasted about 90,000 miles, and the replacement I bought on Amazon for $100 looks to be just as good...

For that matter, the Bosch that failed is still sitting in a box on the shelf somewhere - I could ship it to you, though it needs a rebuild. It seems to be in better shape than what you're working with!

[pete mcgee]

I'd find a Bosch equivalent.
 I just repaired my 32 year old Bosch, new brushes, bushes, clean, lube and new solenoid.
Good as new.
These days it looks like starter motors are a service item like spark plugs.
Isn't progress wonderful.

[rodekyll]

I moved to valeo from bosch because of the 20# weight difference, the reduction gear drive, and the lower current draw to operate.  I guess it's time to move back.  At least when the bosch failed I could whack it with a rock and make it work again.

[guzzisteve]

And you can get parts anywhere(almost).  If the Valeo's were made in the last 7yrs or so they are made better than the early years they were put on Guzzi's. Still pretty pricey.

[rodekyll]

That's not long stuff magnetically stuck to the armature in the first pic.  It's some cotton fabric wound in the windings that is migrating out of wherever it started out and getting jammed up in everything.

In the bottom pic that's all rust and that dumped out loose, before I got in and cleaned it up.


I mix-n-matched the three valeos and got one that works ok if the bike is warm, but in 8 pushes out of 10, the Bendix bounces and the starter freewheels before it can start a cold engine.

In another topic someone mentioned that you don't want to use marine grade starters and alternators in non-marine environments because they're sealed and can trap water inside.  Take a close look at this unsealed pile of rusted crap.  I'll argue that a sealed unit also keeps water out.

[canuck750]

Bosch Starter





One heavy slug of steel.

But they are easy to rebuild and parts are cheap.

[cwiseman]

Bosch Starter





One heavy slug of steel.

But they are easy to rebuild and parts are cheap.

Ya but those are Canadian Lbs! Lol

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Maybe the new Bosch starters are lighter (looks like the nose casting is aluminum) and more efficient?

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Moto-Guzzi-BOSCH-Starter-05730730-05-73-07-30-30-p/mg-bos3.htm

Wasn't someone selling a modified Nippon Denso starter also?

[Triple Jim]

In another topic someone mentioned that you don't want to use marine grade starters and alternators in non-marine environments because they're sealed and can trap water inside.  Take a close look at this unsealed pile of rusted crap.  I'll argue that a sealed unit also keeps water out.

I just took apart, cleaned, lubed and reassembled the starter on the 2005 Ninja 250 I bought last year.  The starter is sealed, and was in very good condition inside.  It just needed the brush dust cleaned out and some oil on the non-engine end sintered bronze shaft bushing.  I thought it was interesting that the engine end bearing is a needle roller type, and that end of the motor case is sealed to the engine housing with an O-ring, but the shaft is open to the oil splashing around, and was well lubricated and new looking.  The shaft seal is on the armature side of the bearing.  Those zany Japanese and their good designs!

[chuck peterson]

Thread drift...is this deal for real? All that for $139...

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/boalt-mg.htm

[John Ulrich]

Last time I had mine apart I used silicone on all the openings.

[kirby1923]

I have put 20K miles with a valeo on my CX, absolutely no problems (maybe I just screwed up!??). Black cat crossing your path?

Time to consult a witch doctor RK!

[rodekyll]

I've gotten 20k out of a valeo too -- after getting 180k out of the bosch it replaced.  Darn thing is so cheaply made that even the bakelite brush holder is imitation and busted all over the innards. 

And yes, it's a genuine valeo.  I cheaped out once and bought a clone.  You do not want to hear that story, so I'll just give the punch line as said in an offshore accent:  "It's as good as anything built to that price point" WITHOUT ever admitting that it was designed for actual field service.

 

[pete roper]

David, I keep forgetting to post you that cam but I'll do that tomorrow as its quiet and I'll bung in one of the later starters off my wreck as well. I have several. They seem to be a better bet than the Valeos.

Pete

[rodekyll]

That's darn thoughtful of you, Pete, thanks!  You'd think that if I saved everything always for long enough there'd be one complete, working starter in that pile of parts, but NNNNnnnn0000OOOoooo .

Do you have any speculative idea on if that cam might completely ruin an '06 B1200 2V?  I got me this harelippedbrained idea in gestation . . .

[pete roper]

Should work in pretty much any 2V. What makes if fun is it has the fluid drive key. If you want more 'Vert cams my mate Steven just bought in a container of munt from the US and got a dozen or so 'Vert cams! As you can guess he's over the moon, NOT! 

Pete

[rodekyll]

If he can figure out how to make those cams drive tach cables he'd be on to something.

That's a shame really.  He'll make sash weights out of them while in America they're unobtainium.

Yes, that fluid drive key + ramps + overlap* (2) + 1200(2v)+ ^[insert bong smiley here] =  / *

That's as far as I am with the planning, but that's how all my projects start.

[mtiberio]

Maybe the new Bosch starters are lighter (looks like the nose casting is aluminum) and more efficient?

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Moto-Guzzi-BOSCH-Starter-05730730-05-73-07-30-30-p/mg-bos3.htm

Wasn't someone selling a modified Nippon Denso starter also?

You very rarley hear anyone mention this, but yes, most old Guzzis have had a heavy (all iron) Bosch starter but the Lemans III (and no doubt others) came with a Bosch that had an Aluminum body (or at least the nose). I know this because when I used it as a plug in starter on my race bike, the ring gear eventually almost wore through the area surrounding the front bearing due to hastly removal motions once started trying to get on the track.