2009 Stelvio - Rough Idle & Ignition Firing When Warm

[bmacneil2008]

With Todd's 100% help from Guzzi Tech, I installed the full monty of PC5/AT and ECU reflash 2 years ago. Bike ran/runs perfect, much better than stock (2009). However, I am having some idling issues after the bike has been run for a few miles and even on the throttle is not running 'clean'. I have decided to go back to a stock setup and remove the PC5/AT. I assume I need to have the dealer reflash the ECU to stock after I reinstall the stock CO2 sensor and is back to stock.

The bike ran great with all the mods, is not the issue, I just need to track down what is going on now. It all started when I replaced the spark plug caps. Not sure why I did so but in the forums riders stated the stock caps could become an issue. I had the bike in for a warrantied alternator replacement, the pulley shaft snapped, and had them replace the caps. Well, the mechanic pulled so hard on one HT coil leads he severed the wires inside, left side. Was getting the red engine light after. I replaced the HT wire ($3 from NAPA) instead of taking the bike back to the dealer as is a 6 hour round trip, towing, and the bike ran 100% better but still the issue when warmed up after a 10 mile idle or so is not . I believe is the right side that is the issue and now am replacing both sides with OEM wires ($120) just to get back to ground zero, and w/o all the goodies. Not fun in the sun removing the cowling assemly to get to the coils.

I have the diag cables, can I reflash the ECU back to stock w/o going to the dealer?

Thanks.

Camping ride up to Unicoi, TN -







Robert M.

[pete roper]

Someone can send you the stock map easily enough and if you have GD up and running with 'Reader' and 'Writer' you can save your current map and upload the stock me or any other one as often as you want.

If using an aftermarket map just make sure it's for the correct model. As a 2009 I would imagine that it doesn't have ABS? That is important. And that the map is for a single lambda model.

Also vital is that the tune be correct, the throttle bodies be un-mollested and it not be running any sort of stupid rock strainer air filter.

To me it does sound as if there may still be an problem with the ignition side of things but not knowing what else has been buggered about with its impossible to sheet the problem home to any single issue.

Pete

[Bonafide Bob]

Have you tried reinstalling the original map that Todd did for you?
Bob

[Zoom Zoom]

Has it been rollerized

ZZ

[pete roper]

Has it been rollerized

ZZ

Good question.

[bmacneil2008]

Someone can send you the stock map easily enough and if you have GD up and running with 'Reader' and 'Writer' you can save your current map and upload the stock me or any other one as often as you want.

If using an aftermarket map just make sure it's for the correct model. As a 2009 I would imagine that it doesn't have ABS? That is important. And that the map is for a single lambda model.

Also vital is that the tune be correct, the throttle bodies be un-mollested and it not be running any sort of stupid rock strainer air filter.

To me it does sound as if there may still be an problem with the ignition side of things but not knowing what else has been buggered about with its impossible to sheet the problem home to any single issue.

Pete

That is my 1st try, I ordered new OEM HT coil leads and plug caps. Will install those and see if all good.

[bmacneil2008]

Has it been rollerized

ZZ

Yes, rollers upgraded when purchased new in 2011. Came out of the crate and the dealer perfromed all 'alerts' in the MG recall dbase.

[beetle]

Yes, rollers upgraded when purchased new in 2011. Came out of the crate and the dealer perfromed all 'alerts' in the MG recall dbase.

Doubtful it's got rollers. It was never a recall. There was a recall on the original cast iron flatties, which yours would have had, built in 2009. Probably just got the new version of flatties.

[WitchCityGuzzi]

And honestly if I remember correctly the c kit didn't even become available to maybe 2014 ish?

I would definitely check the tappets.

If you need map 52, I can email it to you.

Doug

[pete roper]

Remove a rocker cover. if the tappets look like this



they are fatties and will almost certainly be buggered like so.



Or worse still,



if, on the other hand they look like this, (Which for the reasons Doug states I don't think they will.)



you're good to go.

[Wayne Orwig]

Yes, rollers upgraded when purchased new in 2011. Came out of the crate and the dealer perfromed all 'alerts' in the MG recall dbase.

You did NOT get rollers in 2011. You got the update for the 2009s which put in the DLC coated flats.

The dealer pulled on a wire a ripped it out?

With the GuzziDiag/reader/writer, you can read the current map, install any other map to test, and reinstall the one from Todd. All easy and quick.

[pete roper]

The dealer pulled on a wire a ripped it out?

There's a lot of it about.......

[bmacneil2008]

And honestly if I remember correctly the c kit didn't even become available to maybe 2014 ish?

I would definitely check the tappets.

If you need map 52, I can email it to you.

Doug

Doug,

You are more than kind. Yes, I may reach out to you for a map if replacing the coil wires and plugs with stock units does not fix the issue. The service manager told me when I picked up the bike that when the mechanic was trying to pull the stock caps off, took alot of muscle. So when I got the bike home it was missing when I went for test ride and then the red light came on. I knew was due to the NGK caps install. I inspected them and the new NGK caps were loose, not screwed into the coil wire securely. I did this and the bike ran better but still not smoothly and the light was still on. I then wiggled the left coil wire and the light went out, so determined when the mechanic pulled the OEM caps off he somehow damaged the coil wire. I installed a new coil wire and the bike ran 90% better but think there may be a similar issue with the right side but not as severe. Only occurs after heated up, that is somewhat a mystery as why not when cold to. The dealership, until this, has been fantastic, so I mark it up to a 'just a bad day at the office' happens to all of us.

As for the tappets, rollers, whatever, the mod for this bike was performed, is not a valve issue.

Thanks again for the comments.

[pete roper]

Please, just check it. The roller top end was NOT available when your bike was purchased. The 'Upgrade' carried out would of been from the original chilled cast iron tappets to the forged steel with DLC coating ones. This is NOT a fix, all flat tappet motors will fail, usually by 20,000km the damage is well advanced.

Once the tappets wear it alters the cam timing so the engine breathes differently and while the ECU will try to trim around the damage it can't, especially with only a single lambda input.

While I have no idea what else is wrong with your machine you will be chasing ghosts until you address the tappet issue and start with a clean slate. Also any greasemonkey who can pull on an HT lead so hard as to damage its copper core may well of done a host of other stuff to the bike that will of hurt its running and performance.

Pete

[WitchCityGuzzi]

Takes 5 minutes to pull the valve cover and take a look. It's important to find out as you don't want the DLC coating particles from the tappets floating around in there.

If you still have the flat tappets, you're definitely at risk.


Doug

[bmacneil2008]

Please, just check it. The roller top end was NOT available when your bike was purchased. The 'Upgrade' carried out would of been from the original chilled cast iron tappets to the forged steel with DLC coating ones. This is NOT a fix, all flat tappet motors will fail, usually by 20,000km the damage is well advanced.

Once the tappets wear it alters the cam timing so the engine breathes differently and while the ECU will try to trim around the damage it can't, especially with only a single lambda input.

While I have no idea what else is wrong with your machine you will be chasing ghosts until you address the tappet issue and start with a clean slate. Also any greasemonkey who can pull on an HT lead so hard as to damage its copper core may well of done a host of other stuff to the bike that will of hurt its running and performance.

Pete

Sincerely appreciate the explanation. Although is a 2009 model, it was in cold storage at Guzzi USA until I purchased it in 11/2014, then was uncrated and all recall work completed. However, I will send your image examples to the Matt the service manager and follow up with a call. If I am not convinced he knows for certain, I will pull the valve cover so know for certain.

[Dilliw]

Sincerely appreciate the explanation. Although is a 2009 model, it was in cold storage at Guzzi USA until I purchased it in 11/2014, then was uncrated and all recall work completed. However, I will send your image examples to the Matt the service manager and follow up with a call. If I am not convinced he knows for certain, I will pull the valve cover so know for certain.

Matthews Fun Machines did the work on my Griso back in February so they know about the tappet issues.  I'm guessing your bike is still under warranty?  That's a good thing.

[Markcarovilli]

not wanting to throw more onto the pile....but the flat tappet issue is not a "recall" that would have been done and would be warranty if failure proven.

Mark