Appliance repair

[Irn]

Best appliance repair part story.  Needed a new ignitor for the broiler on my Viking range.  Kind hearted  fellow at the parts desk said you want the Viking part or the Honeywell.  I said whats the difference, he said the Viking logo on the box and $100!  Cross shopping parts numbers pays especially on designer branded appliances.

[Orange Guzzi]

Let's see , a repairman buys a $40K truck , spends $10K on tools and replacement parts to carry on that $40K truck , then pays for gasoline , insurance , his own vacations, retirement , etc , then some new tech comes along that requires education , then shows up at your house where there is a good chance the wife ain't happy ...

 Dusty

This is a Guzzi forum, we don't think this way.  We want it cheap, quality, and now. 

Service techs are very valuable.  Experience in very valuable.  No one knows everything.  Tips and tricks come with experience.  Sharing Our experience is priceless. 

[dee g]

I used to call the repair guy when my appliances had problems.  Then my Bosch front load washer stopped spinning.  Guy came out and said that I needed a new motor. Said the unit was built so that the brushes couldn't be replaced, you had to replace the whole motor. $600.

I spent two hours on line, and after a quick visit to appliancepartspros. com, I had two sets of brushes enroute to the house. Took about two hours to figure it all out, but two hours of my time and $40 for the brushes. Brushes had to be replaced two more times, then about 18 months ago, the computer board on the display died. Replace display ($500) on a 10 year old machine or buy a new one for $800. I opted for a new Bosch front loader.

Nice thing is, the motor from the old machine works in the new machine.  yay!!!

[Lannis]

I used to call the repair guy when my appliances had problems.  Then my Bosch front load washer stopped spinning.  Guy came out and said that I needed a new motor. Said the unit was built so that the brushes couldn't be replaced, you had to replace the whole motor. $600.

Well, quite.  How else is the service guy going to make the payments on a $40,000 truck?

[Tom]

Hey Dee!  Good to hear you.  Yeah if you can work on your bike.  You can certainly work on your appliances.  :1:  Was good to spend some time with you and Pete.

[Lannis]

Commercial machines are the same as residential for the most part other than the vending control. When looking for repair parts, look for commercial suppliers.  Control boards can be repaired/exchanged for $75.  I keep extra perishable parts on hand for fast change outs.  I have an advantage over single unit owner because I can swap parts between units to trouble shoot. 

When replacing a wash machine, a front loader is the best investment.  Buy a unit with the least amount of features.  .... Gas dryers are more efficient.  You get more btu's from gas than electric.

We don't have gas laid on here at the house, and bottled propane or LPG in a tank is no bargain compared to electric, so we're stuck with electric appliances.

It's really hard to find "minimally featured" appliances these days.  We'd love to find a washing machine that just has "Large Medium Small" load switch, and 1 cycle and a start button, but that's getting difficult to get that AND any capacity at all.

We recycle all our water, so the amount of water usage doesn't mean much here.   We have a deep drilled well for a supply, and a septic tank for discharge, which are about 100 yards apart.    Six months after we USE the water, it's back in the water table for pumping back out - it doesn't even go off our our land ....

Lannis

[Tom]

I reuse the washer grey water for the yard.  Electricity is more costly here than anywhere else in the U.S. or so we're told.  Must be in a state hooked to a grid.  Clothes are on the line.  I disconnected the electric dryer and sold it a long time ago.  The clothes that are hung up usually will dry with 45 minutes.  The exceptions are heavy stuff like jeans. 

Out here the parts guy that I use to buy stuff from, told me that the newer appliances with the touch button control boards will get corrosion on the tabs and not make contact.  More of a problem in the humid salt air that is prevalent in most of Hawaii.  Look for the older style appliances with a mechanical switching. 

[Lannis]

Out here the parts guy that I use to buy stuff from, told me that the newer appliances with the touch button control boards will get corrosion on the tabs and not make contact.  More of a problem in the humid salt air that is prevalent in most of Hawaii.  Look for the older style appliances with a mechanical switching.

Substitute "Motorcycles" for "Appliances" and it's still true ....

[Tom]

Until the motors go.  I'll try to keep the older stuff going.  I think on the older washer, I change out the mechanical timer switch out a couple of times till they weren't available.  Final time I look, you had to buy the whole switch mechanism.  Cost went from $78 to $180.  I took a rebate coupon for $150 and bought a new washer from Costco.  Mechanical dial.  Haven't checked for parts costs but the main reason for the failure was the cousin that use to live with us.  She would turn the main dial like a Vegas slot machine.    No longer a problem since she moved out.

[CalVin2007]

We don't have gas laid on here at the house, and bottled propane or LPG in a tank is no bargain compared to electric, so we're stuck with electric appliances.

It's really hard to find "minimally featured" appliances these days.  We'd love to find a washing machine that just has "Large Medium Small" load switch, and 1 cycle and a start button, but that's getting difficult to get that AND any capacity at all.

We recycle all our water, so the amount of water usage doesn't mean much here.   We have a deep drilled well for a supply, and a septic tank for discharge, which are about 100 yards apart.    Six months after we USE the water, it's back in the water table for pumping back out - it doesn't even go off our our land ....

Lannis

   So the old story is true?

  "We moved the outhouse and the well dried up"   

   Terry

[Lannis]

   So the old story is true?

  "We moved the outhouse and the well dried up"   

   Terry

We really do count heavily on that six months, on bacterial action, and on water filtering through 300 feet of clay and limestone.   But we test the well regularly, and the water's lovely.   Sixty gallons per minute it supplies, we've got a lot of water under this place.

Lannis

[Tom]

Okay....the two appliances that prompted this thread were in rental units.  One was a non-working clothers dryer and water heater in the other.  The other unit no problems.  Repairs were done this last Saturday.  Took about 1.5 hours and some luck with guessing.

Clothes dryer after doing some preliminary checks turn out to be a broken wire to the heater coil.  I happen to stick my hand into the heater coil and felt the broken wire.  Up to that point with using a multi-meter, I couldn't find any problems with the other components.  thermostats, fuse etc.  Reused the clamp and re-clamped the heater coil wire to the contact..

Water heater.  Seems after checking the 2 heater elements.  No problem.  Thermostats not sure.  Took a gamble.  Disconnected the timer and hook-up the heater direct to the incoming wires.  Heated up.  So culprit seems to be the timer.  Told the renter to turn off the heater at the breaker box when not using.  Otherwise their electric bill would shoot up.


 

[Two Checks]

Fix the water heater. The tenant shouldn't have to turn off the breaker.

[Wayne Orwig]

Water heater.  Seems after checking the 2 heater elements.  No problem.  Thermostats not sure.  Took a gamble.  Disconnected the timer and hook-up the heater direct to the incoming wires.  Heated up.  So culprit seems to be the timer.  Told the renter to turn off the heater at the breaker box when not using.  Otherwise their electric bill would shoot up.

Timer? Water heater? Direct to incoming wires?

If you connected a heating element directly to power with no thermostat, people can die in that kind of explosion.

[oldbike54]

 Tom , W/O sounding too strident , fix the water heater .

  Please and thank you .

  Dusty

[Lannis]

This is a Guzzi forum, we don't think this way.  We want it cheap, quality, and now. 

Service techs are very valuable.  Experience in very valuable.  No one knows everything.  Tips and tricks come with experience.  Sharing Our experience is priceless.

Found one more example of the impending death of "traditional" brick-and-mortar appliance stores.

The lint screen on our dryer broke (they last about a year, they're thin nylon screens).   Went to the appliance store for another - $32, they said, and they don't keep them in stock.

Went on-line to a big appliance parts place, and they are $8 each, free shipping if you buy 3.   Bought 4 of them so that they'll probably last as long as the dryer.

Anyone asking $32 retail for what is essentially a wear part that probably wholesales for $5 absolutely deserves to go out of business, and I'm not going to cry about it.   $8 on-line, $12 in the store, I'd sit still for.   $8 on-line, $32 in the store is a sucker's game with a big middle finger UP to me, the customer.

Lannis

[Arizona Wayne]

I used to call the repair guy when my appliances had problems.  Then my Bosch front load washer stopped spinning.  Guy came out and said that I needed a new motor. Said the unit was built so that the brushes couldn't be replaced, you had to replace the whole motor. $600.

I spent two hours on line, and after a quick visit to appliancepartspros. com, I had two sets of brushes enroute to the house. Took about two hours to figure it all out, but two hours of my time and $40 for the brushes. Brushes had to be replaced two more times, then about 18 months ago, the computer board on the display died. Replace display ($500) on a 10 year old machine or buy a new one for $800. I opted for a new Bosch front loader.

Nice thing is, the motor from the old machine works in the new machine.  yay!!!

I used to be an appliance repairman in part of my earlier life.  About 20+ years ago Whirpool came out with a top loading washer that is really a simple design and easy to work on.  I bought 1 and we still have it with absolutely no mechanical/electrical issues yet.     We have a decades old Sears/WP dryer that we don't even use/need here in Arizona year round.   Since I used to work on all brands appliances  + heating/cooling units, I can fix just about anything we have.   

[Tom]

Seems I need to add more info.  The water heater was hooked up to a timer.  The timer looks to be the culprit.  I took that out of the system and re-hooked the water heater the way it was before I put a timer on it.  The instruction to the tenant to turn the breaker off is so that the heater is not on all the time.  The last electric bill for 3 is $224.67 family of 3.  If I have to replace the breaker in the Load Center I don't mind.  Had to rewire a new load center in about 5 years ago.  A breaker is minor.  I'll put a timer in when I have the time.  Thanks for the concern though. 

[HDGoose]

It's the case for our KitchenAid dishwasher.   I've never been so disappointed with a supposedly top-of-the-line piece of kit.   The dishrack rollers failed, the door gasket failed, the "garbage disposal" which supposedly chops up the waste into chunks failed, and NOW the main control panel, which is also what you use to pull the door open, is slowly coming off, all in 5 years of two people living here.   And our friendly dealer (he IS friendly, really) tells us that a new control panel costs more than a new dishwasher.   GE or Whirlpool for me next time ....

Lannis

Please name a manufacturer that is any different with new computer controlled machines.

[Lannis]

Please name a manufacturer that is any different with new computer controlled machines.

To be honest, I don't know if there ARE any.   We thought that, in deciding between a KitchenAid and a Bosch, that we were looking at top-of-the-line stuff, but apparently not.

I think I'm going to take OrangeGuzzi's commercial-operation advice, and buy simple, mechanical-switch stuff (like a Speed Queen) when it's time to replace something else ....

Lannis

[HDGoose]

Timer? Water heater? Direct to incoming wires?

If you connected a heating element directly to power with no thermostat, people can die in that kind of explosion.

"Energy saving timers" bypassed, not a thermostat.

[Tom]

Yes.  The timer I installed is the one I took out of the loop.  Upper thermostat is still in.  In other words the heater is the same as when I installed it new before I added the timer box.  I thought that would have lasted longer. 

[Wayne Orwig]

Seems I need to add more info.  The water heater was hooked up to a timer.  The timer looks to be the culprit.  I took that out of the system and re-hooked the water heater the way it was before I put a timer on it.  The instruction to the tenant to turn the breaker off is so that the heater is not on all the time.  The last electric bill for 3 is $224.67 family of 3.  If I have to replace the breaker in the Load Center I don't mind.  Had to rewire a new load center in about 5 years ago.  A breaker is minor.  I'll put a timer in when I have the time.  Thanks for the concern though. 

Ah, make more sense.

Is the water heater insulation that bad that you need a timer?

[rodekyll]

" . . .
Quote from: Lannis on August 03, 2016, 01:41:21 PM

It's the case for our KitchenAid dishwasher.   I've never been so disappointed with a supposedly top-of-the-line piece of kit.   The dishrack rollers failed, the door gasket failed, the "garbage disposal" which supposedly chops up the waste into chunks failed, and NOW the main control panel, which is also what you use to pull the door open, is slowly coming off, all in 5 years of two people living here.   And our friendly dealer (he IS friendly, really) tells us that a new control panel costs more than a new dishwasher.   GE or Whirlpool for me next time ...."

Please name a manufacturer that is any different with new computer controlled machines.

The failures you quoted were all mechanical.  None were computer-related.  So why is this a problem for 'computer controlled' machines?

[Tom]

OMG-

What we get charged for electricity out here is expensive.  A timer on the heater dropped the bill by 1/3.  Current bill for family of 3 is $224.67/mo.  Looks like the timer is out so the advice to the tenant on the breaker.  They pay the bill.  I monitor and let them know consumption rates.  24.53 KWH at $7.49 per day. 

I'll recheck this weekend and remind them that things need to shut off when not in use.  Open the drapes during the day time and use natural light.  Full loads of laundry.  Use the clothes dryer sparingly.  They don't use the dish washer because I disconnected it.

[Lannis]

The failures you quoted were all mechanical.  None were computer-related.  So why is this a problem for 'computer controlled' machines?

Well, the Control Panel (which is all electronic) potentially ripping off of the door, since it's being used as a handle as well as a home for the electronics, could sort of be an electronic thing.   I never had that happen with an old mechanical system.

And they may be having the same problem as Guzzi has demonstrated with its 8-valve machines - in the mad rush to Keep Up With The Yamasuzuhondas, Guzzi put lots of electronic widgetry like ECUs and EFI and intelligent dash panels on the bike, and at the same time forgot how to make a camshaft and cam followers.   They're spending their money and time and quality control on the wrong things, in my opinion.

But no, to answer the basic question, the electronics on these machines have not failed.   On my next go, however, I will try to buy a machine where the quality and engineering went into the structure and the moving parts, not the pretty blinking lights that I never use ....

Lannis

[Two Checks]

"Energy saving timers" bypassed, not a thermostat.

Then it should still have a t-stat and a timer isn't needed.

[Tom]

The timer is on the power coming into the heater before the thermostat and not needed but worth it to turn the power off when no one is around to use the hot water.  When everyone is out of the household.  You don't need hot water on standby for 8 hours.  Waste of electricity and money.

[Lannis]

The timer is on the power coming into the heater before the thermostat and not needed but worth it to turn the power off when no one is around to use the hot water.  When everyone is out of the household.  You don't need hot water on standby for 8 hours.  Waste of electricity and money.

Our hot-water-heater is on a control box managed by the electric co-operative.   When overall system demand is high on the local grid, the controls turn the w/h off.   When demand is down and they need a load to absorb unused power, it turns on.   

You might think this would be inconvenient for us the user, but the capacity on a modern water heater is high and the insulation is good, so we never even notice it ...

Lannis

[Tom]

The electric company is not that advanced out here.  If they were that efficient then they would cut into their profits.