motor homes vs tag along vs 5th wheel NGC

[nsmith]

looking for knowledge here. I like the idea of traveling with the house right there, wife says why have yet another truck to maintain.
keep in mind we are dealing with an F150 here so no outrages ideas. Either way I'm hoping we can find a toy hauler. Why can't I find a tag along with an on board generator but all the motor homes have them? Guzzi content (I own 4 Guzzi and they ALL run very well.) 

[fotoguzzi]

  Why can't I find a tag along with an on board generator but all the motor homes have them? 

good ?

I like the motorhomes that have a garage space for a couple bikes and trailer hitch for a boat.

[charlie b]

Most trailers do not come with generators.  Some of the larger ones are outfitted for one but they are usually optional.  Why?  I don't know.  It may be because a trailer has no integrated gas tank like a motorhome does.  Now days the toyhaulers do have a gas tank so maybe more of them will start to come with generators.

An F150 you'd be limited on the size of trailer you could tow.  When I had the Toyota Tundra the largest fifth wheel it could deal with was a 24ft (truck bed cargo capacity was the limit).  Technically you could tow a larger bumper pull but due to stability issues in high wind I won't pull the larger ones.

It does depend on how far you will tow it and what kind of conditions.  If you are willing to not tow in med to high winds then a bumper pull might work for you.

The best place to get advice is rv.net forums.  They have a large section on bumper pull trailers where they could answer your questions.

PS if you need a generator just buy one to go with the trailer.  I have a Yamaha 2400 that will run the AC unit.  The 3kW units frequently have a remote start feature that is handy to have and larger fuel tanks (but they are heavier too).  I leave my genset in the back of the truck on trips.

[Arizona Wayne]

I've had a 5th wheel and now have a toy hauler, both pulled by my `89 Dodge 3/4T PU that only has 55k miles on it so far.  I prefer the toyhauler as I can put my bike/scooter right in it.  I just bought a generator 4850 gas/propane watt for $325 delivered not knowing it's made in China.  Time will tell if that was a waste of $.  I already had a 1,500Watt generator but it wouldn't run our trailer air conditioner or microwave.  This bigger generator will (or so they say).   My trailer sits more than I use it.  It's really for if we need it for emergencies.  I used to tow it to MC road races in Calif. but that doesn't happen any more since we live in Az. now.  A few years ago I got a permanent metal cover for the trailer to protect it from the weather. ($3,500)  If we had to we could live in it since we don't get tornadoes or flooding here.   If we have a power outage for extended periods we're in good shape.     We also have a 400 gal. propane tank right next to the toyhauler for the house.

I bought the Dodge PU new for $15K.  Now they're  LOT more!

[Scud]

I have a 19 foot toy hauler trailer. It has a big onboard generator, a big gas tank, and fuel pump station (for filling the motorcycles). This configuration is pretty common. Also fridge, microwave, shower, oven, air conditioning, etc.

I towed it for a long time with a 4.7L Toyota Tundra, but recently got an old Ford F250 7.3 Diesel.

Advantages of Toy Hauler over motorhome are many (IMO):  lower maintenance, lower (or no extra) insurance, stays in camp and leaves the tow-vehicle for easy driving from camp.

[Arizona Wayne]

My toyhauler is longer than Scuds, but I'm not trying to brag.  THs are like cars, you can buy them with as much stuff as you want in them.  The more they weigh the bigger the truck you need to pull them.  I bought mine in `03.  Every year they add more stuff to them, including elevated patios.     If you're serious about riding and pulling your bike to X destination, I think a TH is the way to go.  It has all the amenities you should need.  What it doesn't have you can buy separately like I do. If you get a new 1 w//a built in generator you're talking a lot more $ for that feature than doing it the way I do.  Just depends how you want to spend your $.



My 2nd wife & I lived in a 5th wheel for 10 months as I went thru a divorce.  It was cheaper than living in an apartment and more fun.  I've had a 16' light trailer, a 24' 5th wheel and now a  23' toy hauler.  I prefer the TH.  But part of that is because my priorities changed too over time.   Have also used a tent trailer for summer trips when it was the cheapest option.  So the only option I haven't tried is a motorhome which I never will because I'm too thrifty to do that. 

In the late 70s I did have a Toyota Chinook w/a pop top which was great for 2 of us and 2 small children.   So I have tried about every economical option over time as my life has evolved when it comes to traveling economically, including on occasion sleeping under a tarp if the wind isn't an issue. 

[Scud]

My generator is bigger, more powerful, and has a bigger gas tank than Wayne's - but I am not trying to brag (it just comes naturally to me). 

The external fuel station is great for remote camping with a dirt bike - it draws from the same tank as the generator. Just gotta make sure you have good fresh gas in there if you want to run it in your motorcycle.

Call some dealers or start poking around on craigslist. I would not buy new (too expensive compared to barely-used ones on the market). I got mine used from a dealer a long time ago with everything as-is. I've only replaced the batteries and I intend to put a solar panel on the roof to maintain/recharge the batteries. 19 feet is about as small as you can get with all those features - but I like it for ease of towing and fitting in tight campsites. It still holds plenty - and there's always the truck bed if you want to take even more stuff.

[Gliderjohn]

I reference to cheap generators. We bought a 5K unit for around $600 during a severe ice storm a few years back. It worked okay except that our microwave would not run well. When we had our Generac auto generator installed I asked the electrician about the microwave problem. He said it was because the cheap generator did not put out an even flow of electricity. I would guess that could also cause problems for desk top computers.
GliderJohn

[charlie b]

Generators.  You can easily get away with a cheap one.  They are noisy but work well.  A small roof AC requires a bit over 2kW so a 3kW will run it and a lot of everything else.

If you want one to run electronics then they make those too.  My Yamaha will do it, but, it cost $1400 for a 2400W unit.  Same with the Honda units.  It is also MUCH quieter so I can run it in the evenings in most campgrounds without waking up everyone in the campground.  If you are out by yourself or in groups where everyone is running a generator then noise isn't that much of an issue.

PS MH.  I did have a smaller one, family members had larger gassers and diesels.  They are VERY convenient if you are traveling a lot.  Get to spot, lower jacks and go turn on TV.  Generator is already running to power the AC if it is hot outside.  If not then push a button and it is running.  Wake up in morning, make coffee, stumble to drivers seat, raise jacks and go.  It you have 'toys' then pull a trailer.

Inconvenient for many things.  Your 'truck' is your house.  If you don't tow something to drive around in then you have to drive your house.  Much more maintenance and insurance.  Toyhauler versions are kinda rare and much more expensive.  Gassers suck fuel, ie, 6-8mpg on a good day.  They are horrible in high winds.  Not really unstable, they just wallow (until you get to the diesels).  They feel like a boat in medium winds.  The only time my neck really hurt when driving was in a MH on a windy day.

[rocker59]

RV = you'll have to drag a trailer for a car or motorcycles, or you'll be walking when hooked up at camp, if you want to go someplace.

Tag along = Great if pulling with an SUV or if you have a topper on your pick up.  With a 1/2 ton truck and Class III hitch, the size of the trailer will be limited.  Sway can be more of an issue with a tag along. And depending upon the trailer's tongue, turning can be limited vs. a gooseneck.

Gooseneck = Distributes the tongue weight onto the truck better than a bumper pull trailer.  Fewer problems with sway.  "Free" space gained in the gooseneck area for a bedroom, opening up more floor space for other things.

Your wife is correct.  Buying an RV will mean another motor vehicle to maintain.  If you buy something you can pull, then you can always buy a new truck and keep the old trailer.  Since RVs mostly sit a lot, buying a trailer may be simpler in the long term.  You might keep the trailer 20-years and go through three or four pick ups.

A half-ton pick up will be limiting.  Sure, you can get by, but a 3/4 ton truck will provide much better service.  Don't buy a trailer that will max your 1/2 truck's towing capacity.  For example, if your owners manual says 8500 lbs towing, don't go buy an 8500 lbs trailer to pull.  You'll have a miserable towing experience.  6000 lbs is plenty for a 1/2 ton truck, if any hills are involved.

Generators?  The reason so many sale-priced units don't have them is simple.  Money.  Good Onan or Generac units are expensive.  They're usually always optional, and are something you should be able to add.  Or, you could do like many people and buy a nice generator and carry it in the bed of your pickup.  If you buy one like that, though, do everyone a favor and spend good money on a quiet Honda unit.  The cheap generators are loud and obnoxious.  Don't be that guy.  If you do carry one in your truck, be sure and chain it and lock it.  They have a way of wandering off.

[Kev m]

My only experience with MH or fifth wheel campers are from using ones that belong to friends (cheap Guzzi content). I have to say the MH we used recently was sublime, between the marble surfaces, plush leather, flat screen TVs etc. But I can't imagine the cost.

Now Jay's fifth wheel (he should comment) is pretty nice too but it looks too big to me and he has way too much truck (F250 quad cab diesel) to haul it.

I've got an acquaintance who is in the process of acquiring a hybrid toy hauler/camper that he is buying new and building out to his spec. Basically an enclosed 16' toy hauler outfitted with windows, electric, kitchenette, AC.

Here's his post from last week:

We've decided to order one to our specifications. It'll take 6-8 weeks. Honestly, I'd rather pay for them to make it ready to go from the factory.

If'n we're going to camp in this thing, I'd prefer to set it up right from the get go.

So, we're ordering a 16' (actually, 19' with the v-nose, well, actually, 22' w/v-nose and 3' tongue/coupling)

-24" x 36" windows on each side.
-13,500 BTU a/c with 120v electrical package (inc. 25' shore power cord and two outlets)
-two 8" LED dome lamps
-two 48" lights
-insulation package
-finished vinyl walls/ceiling over 3/8" plywood
-Removable Condor wheel chocks with recessed D-rings
-Coin black rubber floor
-12v hookup w/battery

This way he can put two full size bikes in the trailer when driving, then pull them out and set up camp in the unit. Sorta best of both worlds.

Here's the one they are building out:

[Scud]

Good points on towing Rocker. My trailer, when loaded, was getting close to max towing capacity for my Tundra. It did an admirable job, but struggled on the long, steep grades here in California. If you get a hitch-pull trailer (not 5th wheel), get a weight distributing hitch and a friction anti-sway attachment. That makes a HUGE improvement in towing stability, especially in crosswinds (or in close, opposing traffic when big trucks or busses go by).

An advantage of 5th wheel trailers (If I understand the law correctly) is that people can ride in the 5th wheel while towing - but they cannot ride in hitch-pull trailers while towing.

I also recommend air bags for the back of the truck. I didn't get them for my Tundra, but my F250 has a small on-board air compressor and I can adjust the air bags to level the truck with the trailer attached.

[twhitaker]

An advantage of 5th wheel trailers (If I understand the law correctly) is that people can ride in the 5th wheel while towing - but they cannot ride in hitch-pull trailers while towing.

Not sure how smart that would be. The 'I love Lucy' movie 50 years ago where she was trying to make lunch in the trailer while Ricky was driving comes to mind.

[oldbike54]

 Honey , let's buy an RV so we can "get away from it all" and still take everything with us  "I wonder what's on channel 297 tonight?"

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

I considered a motor home before getting my 5th wheel toy hauler.

I thought it was better to separate my power (truck) from the trailer.  I will say, these trailers require a lot of maintenance.  Every time you use one, you'll be fixing something.  Now I didn't want to combine that with maintenance of a truck or bus in motor home.  And buying the truck and trailer separately allowed me to stretch out my budget and I was able to get a bigger truck later.

The advantage with a motor home is that you can pull over anywhere, park and camp.  With the trailer, you'll have some set up and leave your vehicle to go to the camper and perhaps heat it or cool it.  With a trailer you have a "runabout" vehicle (the truck) versus towing a car.

I got a great deal on the Toy Hauler.  It was a basic unit and didn't have a generator (but it was prepped for one).  Most of the TH come with built in generators now.  I just bought a cheap Chinese generator (Champion) that's not terribly loud but still not as quiet as an inverter generator.  A can easily haul two full size bikes and the generator and roll them in and out of the ramp.  You will only need the generator to run the air conditioner or the microwave, otherwise just to charge the battery.  I've easily done a 4 day weekend (at the Indy 500) and never unloaded the generator and was able to watch TV, hear the radio, cook & clean, and shower.  Whenever you plug into power you are simultaneously charging the battery as well as using power.

Obviously I got the Toy Hauler for my motorcycles.  I had a gas Chevy 2500 that I've upgraded to a diesel Chevy 2500HD.  I'd recommend at least 3/4 ton, a diesel if you can get one (better mileage and much quieter).  If you go for a big Toy Hauler, you'll have to get a dually or even bigger.  For the extra margin of comfort and safety and would avoid a half-ton except for pulling a small trailer.   

Here's my rig.  If you have questions, just ask.

[Scud]

Honey , let's buy an RV so we can "get away from it all" and still take everything with us  "I wonder what's on channel 297 tonight?"

 Dusty

I removed the TV from mine and got more storage space at the same time.

It's great to have a refrigerator and the rest of the kitchen though - including an actual kitchen sink. Most people forget the sink.  They take everything but the kitchen sink.  That's a shame - cuz the kitchen sink is so useful.

@LowRyter - great rig. And thanks again for your earlier advice re trucks. I'm quite happy with my new-to-me, but old Ford Diesel.

[LowRyter]

Scud- Hard to beat a 7.3 Powerstroke but they're getting hard to find. 

[charlie b]

All good advice.

I did forget the airbags though.  Towing our little fifth wheel with the Tundra was really not very safe without the airbags.  It was near max load in the cargo bed and just under the 7500lb towing limit.  It did really well on hills and such, but, it sucked gas doing so.  8mpg normally, 6mpg on hills and one day with a 50mph headwind I only got 4mpg (and I was only going 45mph in 3rd gear).  Yes, in a 50mph wind a small fifth wheel is ok an open plain, hills may present too much turbulence/gusting for that.

The diesel 3/4T does not need airbags when towing the same trailer.  And it gets 11-12mpg on the flats, 8-10mpg on hills.  Not surprising cause the Dodge is rated to tow something like 20k lb and the trailer is only 7000lb.

[charlie b]

OK, so setup and tear down.

If you are going to do things like hook up to power/water/sewer etc and put out awnings, set up chairs, etc, the time it takes to do that with a trailer is about the same as with a MH.  About the only difference in time is hooking/unhooking the trailer.  For a bumper pull with WD hitch and stabilizer it will take an extra 15min.  For a fifth wheel about 10min.  Not really a big deal if you are setting up for a few days.

[oldbike54]

 Lowryter's rig is very nice , and it makes a nice place to congregate . Delrod's rig , while a bit smaller, is also a great place to gather . Plus , they can haul several nice chairs , a real benefit to guys like me that are already arriving looking like a two wheeled version of the Beverly Hillbillies 

 Dusty

[HDGoose]

Wife and I are co-dependent. I have a Ram 2500 with a Cummins diesel.  She bought a 33 foot 5th wheel toyhauler. Queen bed. The bed/shower/toilet room take up the nose. The back 2/3 of the trailer is one large room. Really nice is the large 'panoramic' window. I have it set up to haul two large street. could probably haul 4-5 dirt bikes. I average 10-13 mpg. Mountain I still get 10, which surprised me. Easily sleep two couples. it was not bought to accommodate anyone but us.

- Wife's ailments no longer allow tenting in the heat. She would end up ill and just not going. So another TimeOut camper is not even an option for her. We can usually find a nice camp spot, away from other campers, with out sewer hook ups. We have a portable tank to empty onboard tanks. And only need to empty grey water every third day. Black tanks usually can go 4 days and still be only half or 3/4 full. We do mostly stuff within 500 miles. but 50% is without hookups. We went to Florida for 11 days, and traveled 800+ miles down to Punta Gorda, but are done with that area and no plans to return. But for Jacksonville, it is nice to park at our American Legion, and usually have the place to our selves, with full hookups. I'll go back down next year for 10-11 days.

Is it motorcycle travel? Nope. But I can sit in the cab and drive and hold my sweetie's hand. She can no longer sit for long with out pain. And her ailments can put her in pain suddenly. We have to stop about 150 miles for her to walk and move about. No more trips on the bike for her. An hour away could be too much.

I have a loud, cheap 7000 watt peak generator that runs it all. Yes...it's on wheels. I believe we will invest in a Honda EU7000iS next year. Unless we just decide to spend double that and have an onboard generator installed. But we like the portable because $3000 will pay for many trips. If I were to buy a new camper, I would add the onboard generator. But I do not see this one being replaced for at least 5 years.

We also have a cargo trailer that is insulated and paneled. We bought a room AC and it has a bucket toilet. That's for the places we go where our fiver is too large. This trailer is a nice size at 8x18.

For pulling comfort, I prefer the fifth wheel trailers. And for the money, the 5th wheel trailers offer more room for slightly more money.

[HDGoose]

Lowryter's rig is very nice , and it makes a nice place to congregate . Delrod's rig , while a bit smaller, is also a great place to gather . Plus , they can haul several nice chairs , a real benefit to guys like me that are already arriving looking like a two wheeled version of the Beverly Hillbillies 

 Dusty

We carry a portable outdoor kitchen to feed the masses at some places.

[LowRyter]

I might the advantages with a 5th wheel vs trailer pull.

1.  easier to hitch and unhitch
2.  pulls straight, not susceptible to cross winds/fish tailing
3.  shorter total towing length for the size of the trailer
4.  truck can carry heavier load.

disadvantage

1.  pickup bed is taken by hitch

[LaMojo]

Long distance vacations - Motor home
Mostly weekend travel - trailer.

A lot of maintenance on both.

[Penderic]

I looked in my pic folder and found I had a couple of rv retro design pics that looked cool.

Taa Daa!

Nice to look at. Motor homes just have too many mechanical things to take care of.  $$$$


Groovy! 

I would'nt mind have having the trailer. Babe magnet! If the trailers arocking, dont come knocking!

[Tom]

For some reason this comes to mind.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDkA59e2_yU

[timonbik]

You have to decide how you are going to use the rig.  Are you going to travel a lot, fulltime RV, weekends away, or snowbird.
Motorhomes are best suited for travel, nothing beats the convenience of having everything literally at your fingertips.  This comes at a cost premium purchasing and maintaining not to mention POOR fuel mileage.  Doesn't make sense to have a big diesel pusher sitting still in an RV park stationary for 6 months.
Toy haulers are great for weekends away with the boys but are not great fulltime or snowbird units, unless you like living in a garage.  You tow around a 40 foot trailer in which you only live in 30.  Not great for long stays.  Most tend to look like the inside of a NASCAR PIT.  DW won't be comfortable in the long run.
We have been fulltime in our 36ft fifthwheel for over 8 years.  Summers north, winters south.
Rig is too big for most provincial or state parks in the NE so we don't travel much throughout the summer.  That is why I have a 750m BREVA.  I picked a unit with a big enough carrying capacity and designed a rear rack to carry the bike on the back of the trailer.  Our Crossroads Seville has been from Ontario, Canada to Texas for 2 winters, Arizona for 3 and Florida for 3 all which I have taken my bike.
A 1/2 ton  won't tow much legally, even with airbags and fuel mileage on a gasser will be POOR.  I have a Chev 3500 Duramax and I get 15 US MPG towing at 60mph.   Had a Dodge Cummins before this truck.  It got the same towing but much better empty.
Decide how you want to use the rig, then shop around to see what suits your needs.
Cheers, Tim

[hooah54]

Just did 10, 000 miles this summer in our VW Rialta.  Went north to Michigan over the Mackinaw bridge then took US 2 across to ND, interstate to SD blackhills, Montana, Idaho, Oregon Pacific highway, Reno to Arches NP on the 50, on to Colorado...KY for a bourbon tour, so on so on.  Home for a week then off to Das Rally in Hamburg NY.  Heard this discussion many times at campgrounds across the US.  Hardcore RV'ers are set in their ways and which type.  Our rig is so small we don't need a toad, but we missed somethings by not having one.  Really missed having a bike.  We are upgrading and have our eyes on one of the Class C diesel units about 26'.    Looking into the EZE tow dolly for the Smart and a small trailer for the bikes.  I am in the MH camp...http://wildguzzi.com/forum/Smileys/default/Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif

[charlie b]

Yep, I missed the Class C's.  And one of them would be my choice if I wanted a MH unit. 

A big plus is the chassis can be serviced by just about any dealer of that brand (Ford, Chevy, etc) where some dealers won't take on a MH chassis (like my old Chevy P30 chassis class A).

You also ride lower in the Class C's so the wallowing effect isn't as bad as the bigger Class A's.

[rboe]

Downside to 5th wheel, if you have dual cab that usually means a short bed and if you don't have a sliding base for the hitch you will take out your rear window in a sharp turn.

While researching this a while back someone else had done the hard work and said diesel was not worth the extra money unless you put in a lot of miles, towed a very heavy load and/or planned on keeping the truck a long time. Most folks tended to upgrade their trucks before they broke even.

Gas mileage will be poor, you do this for the convenience (we're considering it because we have three dogs, a pain to find a hotel that will accept over two if they accept any at all). But I keep hearing that for just about everybody, with more planning, it is much cheaper to hotel it than to own an RV. You are trading money for convenience (or time, if you're lazy like me).

I'm looking at a used Airstream (still seduced by the Class C's and A's) since they are low and tow very easily and if we hate it - great resale value. Guzzi content!

I think when my wife retires we'll do the trailer despite all the bad reasons to do so, just for the life experience. I'd rather not regret not doing it.