U.S. Lawsuit against Screaming Eagle aftermarket parts, emissions

[oldbike54]

'cept for all them cyclones y'all get down there.

 Don't forget the earth quakes .

 Dusty

[blackcat]

Poor old landlocked Oklahoma is looking better all the time ...

 Dusty

I'll put up with a hurricane as I know about where it's coming from and approximately when its going to get here(there are currently two potential problems in the Atlantic) but an earthquake or tornado.....no thanks.

[oldbike54]

I'll put up with a hurricane as I know about where it's coming from and approximately when its going to get here(there are currently two potential problems in the Atlantic) but an earthquake or tornado.....no thanks.

 I'll remember you said that when the East Coast is getting hammered .

 Dusty

[ITSec]

There have been a couple of comments about people not having insurance for hurricanes, or 'exploiting' flood insurance that shouldn't be issued. If you haven't dealt with this, you may not understand the issue fully.

Flood insurance (federally supported) provides coverage only for damage from rising water. It does not cover the damage from storm surge, hurricane force winds, or anything like that - only if the damage is caused by water (in rivers, lakes, ponds, or as a result of rain) that comes upward into the protected property. To make the program affordable and equitable, large pools of participants in widely separated areas of the country are grouped together to calculate premiums, on the basis that floods are very unlikely to occur in multiple geographies at once. The flood insurance program is supposed to run on a break-even basis over the long run, and should not be confused with disaster relief.

Standard, privately issued home and business insurance is supposed to cover hurricane damage (storm surge, winds, falling trees, and so on). It has always done so (till recently, keep reading). Private issuers can (and do) set rates not by pooling and averaging risk, but by risk history for very specific and relatively small areas - think zip code size or less. Hurricane insurance has already become prohibitively expensive in many areas of Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas. Even people in New Jersey and elsewhere in the northeast are having trouble getting coverage.

Where things get really messy is that the private insurers have now started arguing that wind-driven water (i.e., storm surge, where the water level does not rise, but the water is carried or pushed heavily by the wind) is rising water and they refuse to cover it - saying the flood insurance should. The flood insurance program says (and always has) that wind-driven water is not a flood - from their view, it's more like hail damage (wind-driven water and ice). Home and business owners on high land that has never flooded in recorded history are being told by their private insurer that they should have had flood insurance and claim against it - where up until recent years, the claim was always against the private insurer. The flood insurance program says it won't (and isn't even allowed to) cover such damage.

Either way, the person paying the premiums is left holding the bag even with a legitimate claim - and the private insurers say "go ahead - sue me". Hard to pay for a lawyer when you're rebuilding your life with nothing but a deed and a debt...

[blackcat]

"The National Flood Insurance Program was $24 billion in debt at the beginning of 2014 as a result of Hurricanes Katrina, Rita and Sandy."

[blackcat]

I'll remember you said that when the East Coast is getting hammered .

 Dusty

I'm OK up to a high 3 or a low 4. After that, I'm out of here because that is a whole other level of weather insanity. 

[ITSec]

"The National Flood Insurance Program was $24 billion in debt at the beginning of 2014 as a result of Hurricanes Katrina, Rita and Sandy."

Yup - two things here. One, the program is supposed to run break-even over the (very) long run; there was a period a while back (20-30 years ago) when people were claiming its premiums were too high because it was getting a surplus. A run of events like those of the past decade, particularly storms hitting more highly developed areas, will dramatically skew the situation. Second, while the people on the coast hit by storm surge and hurricane winds won't be claiming against flood insurance, all the people inland affected by rising water from the accompanying heavy rains will. All three storms caused extensive flooding over very wide areas inland.

If one agrees that climate change is occurring (I do, but others may not), the risk of increasing volatility of weather patterns and resulting increased likelihood of major floods puts the program in a very difficult place going forward - something that has been pointed out by its administrators.

[ITSec]

I'm OK up to a high 3 or a low 4. After that, I'm out of here because that is a whole other level of weather insanity.

Remember that old Ron White routine about the guy who tied himself to a tree during a Florida hurricane:

"If you're in a hurricane, it's not that the wind is blowing, it's what the wind is blowing - being tied to a tree ain't gonna help if you're hit by a Volvo!"

[Piglet]

When your new bike comes with a gaping hole where torque belongs, then you change pipes.  Doesn't matter which make of bike, you're just going after the renowned Guzzi/BMW/Harley/Ducati torque you're entitled to...

[oldbike54]

When your new bike comes with a gaping hole where torque belongs, then you change pipes.  Doesn't matter which make of bike, you're just going after the renowned Guzzi/BMW/Harley/Ducati torque you're entitled to...

 Guessing you are being facetious ?

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

Congress created the EPA, the EPA creates and enforces the laws through he DoJ.
Totally unconstitutional.

huh?

[LowRyter]

Interesting idea.  What about on existing property?  Pay off, but not allow rebuild?  What happens to ownership and maintenance of the empty land, in your plan?

actually that is Fed Flood Insurance policy in many places.  Once the property is destroyed, the owner is paid but the policy is not renewed at the same location.  You might look at N Padre Island south of Port A.  There are several legacy condos/hotels right against the shore and all the later buildings are probably 250 yards inland. 

[rocker59]

actually that is Fed Flood Insurance policy in many places.  Once the property is destroyed, the owner is paid but the policy is not renewed at the same location.  You might look at N Padre Island south of Port A.  There are several legacy condos/hotels right against the shore and all the later buildings are probably 250 yards inland.

Does a force 4 or 5 hurricane care about 250 yards?

Serious question. 

[oldbike54]

Does a force 4 or 5 hurricane care about 250 yards?

Serious question.

 Serious answer , NO . It does somewhat depend on elevation , although along most of the Gulf and East Coasts , 250 yards  inland will only be about 5 feet ASL . I worked in Charleston SC after Hugo, and was in Biloxi a couple of years after Camille , the tidal surge does a large portion of the damage , and the tornadoes spun off kind of finish the job .
 
 The Galveston Hurricane in the early 1900's should have taught us a lesson , but ...

 Dusty
 

[atavar]

Does a force 4 or 5 hurricane care about 250 yards?

Serious question.

No, but the abstract for the property that the insurance was on does.

[ITSec]

Does a force 4 or 5 hurricane care about 250 yards?

Serious question.

All depends on what is in those 250 yards. Some kinds of cover will reduce the impact of storm surge, some won't. One of the things that has made the impact of storms worse over the past few decades is the draining, development and water starvation (i.e., redirection of supporting rivers) of wetlands, particularly in Louisiana. Without these heavily vegetated swamplands, storms sweep further inland with greater damage. Even a small area of barrier island or swamp can break up the storm's worst impact.

And, as atavar said, the property further inland may be classed differently in the insurance tables. My home in San Antonio, very close to a frequently flooded creek, was classed as least risk under flood insurance - a house three lots closer was classed among the most at risk.

[rocker59]

On Padre Island, the subject location Lowryter mentioned, and I responded to, there is no elevation difference, and 250-yards off the shore makes no real difference to any hurricane that hits it.

The fact that code has backed up new development a mere 250 yards from the beach is a bad joke.

I've grown up in The South, and have immediate family who has lived on the coasts of North Carolina, Florida, and Mississippi, so know well the issues of wind, surge, flood, shoreline erosion, and insurance hassles that they have had to deal with.  The entire street that my aunt lived on at Ocean Isle North Carolina doesn't exist anymore! 

I'll take my chances with the tornadoes here in fly-over country.

[atavar]

At least with tornadoes you can hide in the basement with bourbon!

[blackcat]

Remember that old Ron White routine about the guy who tied himself to a tree during a Florida hurricane:

"If you're in a hurricane, it's not that the wind is blowing, it's what the wind is blowing - being tied to a tree ain't gonna help if you're hit by a Volvo!"

Hurricane Ivan:


We will never know what that poor guy was thinking driving across that I-10 bridge during the hurricane, because he never made it.  Wind took him out but maybe he did get hit by a Volvo?

[sturgeon]

I have never understood while people do not feel the need to assume any risk or responsibility for their choices..

It seems to me that lots of people don't have a large number of choices. Sure, well-off people that build houses in disaster-prone places because it's a pretty spot deserve what they get. But lots of people live in trailer parks because they were born into relative poverty and have little choice. Yeah, I'm one of those commie Canuckistanis, but we have the same issues here as anywhere. And sometimes, sh*t just happens.

[atavar]

Still, living in a trailer park is one thing, living in a trailer park where it is known you will suffer multiple tornadoes a season is another thing and somewhat of a choice. 
Believe me, I have lived at the bottom of the social spectrum so I know personally the lack of options for the indigent and poverty stricken, but at some point the onus is on the individual to do something about their circumstances. 
If they are not going to try then it is not our responsibility to support them, commie or no.

[Lannis]

But lots of people live in trailer parks because they were born into relative poverty and have little choice.

Sure.   That's what they like to tell you, anyway.   

Lannis (yes, I lived in a trailer for 5 years ...)

[LowRyter]

Does a force 4 or 5 hurricane care about 250 yards?

Serious question.

Just know what I was told.  Probably a good 20 ft of elevation and the land in between (250 yds was a guess).  It was just the answer to why those resorts built in late '60s were on the beach and later ones were built away and you had to walk in path through the brush to get to the beach. 

Other places on the Gulf like Ft Walton, didn't seem to be under those restrictions. 

[LowRyter]

All depends on what is in those 250 yards. Some kinds of cover will reduce the impact of storm surge, some won't. One of the things that has made the impact of storms worse over the past few decades is the draining, development and water starvation (i.e., redirection of supporting rivers) of wetlands, particularly in Louisiana. Without these heavily vegetated swamplands, storms sweep further inland with greater damage. Even a small area of barrier island or swamp can break up the storm's worst impact.

And, as atavar said, the property further inland may be classed differently in the insurance tables. My home in San Antonio, very close to a frequently flooded creek, was classed as least risk under flood insurance - a house three lots closer was classed among the most at risk.

I lived NW of San Antonio for a time.  It was surprising after a good rain storm those creeks would flash flood.

[oldbike54]

 This is all Harley Davidson's fault . By product of entirely too much chrome reflecting the Sun's rays causing beach erosion , floods , hurricanes , tornadoes , hell , maybe us Okies can file a lawsuit and blame our recent rash of earthquakes on the MoCo .

 Hmm , that last part actually kind of makes sense , where's my attorney ? 

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

It's pretty shocking that Harley was so greedy to take up the aftermarket business by selling non CARB/EPA parts and tunes for their bikes at dealers.   I suppose their is no moral difference than the jet kit and pipe on my Bandit but it wasn't a Suzuki product.

[HDGoose]

There have been a couple of comments about people not having insurance for hurricanes, or 'exploiting' flood insurance that shouldn't be issued. If you haven't dealt with this, you may not understand the issue fully.

Flood insurance (federally supported) provides coverage only for damage from rising water. It does not cover the damage from storm surge, hurricane force winds, or anything like that - only if the damage is caused by water (in rivers, lakes, ponds, or as a result of rain) that comes upward into the protected property. To make the program affordable and equitable, large pools of participants in widely separated areas of the country are grouped together to calculate premiums, on the basis that floods are very unlikely to occur in multiple geographies at once. The flood insurance program is supposed to run on a break-even basis over the long run, and should not be confused with disaster relief.

Standard, privately issued home and business insurance is supposed to cover hurricane damage (storm surge, winds, falling trees, and so on). It has always done so (till recently, keep reading). Private issuers can (and do) set rates not by pooling and averaging risk, but by risk history for very specific and relatively small areas - think zip code size or less. Hurricane insurance has already become prohibitively expensive in many areas of Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas. Even people in New Jersey and elsewhere in the northeast are having trouble getting coverage.

Where things get really messy is that the private insurers have now started arguing that wind-driven water (i.e., storm surge, where the water level does not rise, but the water is carried or pushed heavily by the wind) is rising water and they refuse to cover it - saying the flood insurance should. The flood insurance program says (and always has) that wind-driven water is not a flood - from their view, it's more like hail damage (wind-driven water and ice). Home and business owners on high land that has never flooded in recorded history are being told by their private insurer that they should have had flood insurance and claim against it - where up until recent years, the claim was always against the private insurer. The flood insurance program says it won't (and isn't even allowed to) cover such damage.

Either way, the person paying the premiums is left holding the bag even with a legitimate claim - and the private insurers say "go ahead - sue me". Hard to pay for a lawyer when you're rebuilding your life with nothing but a deed and a debt...

Insurance is a ponzi scheme. Nothing more. Nothing less. All major insurers in the world are having major issue right now because no one expected interest rates to remain this low for this long.

[screamday]

This is all Harley Davidson's fault . By product of entirely too much chrome reflecting the Sun's rays causing beach erosion , floods , hurricanes , tornadoes , hell , maybe us Okies can file a lawsuit and blame our recent rash of earthquakes on the MoCo .

 Hmm , that last part actually kind of makes sense , where's my attorney ? 

 Dusty

Nice
 

[HDGoose]

Yup - two things here. One, the program is supposed to run break-even over the (very) long run; there was a period a while back (20-30 years ago) when people were claiming its premiums were too high because it was getting a surplus. A run of events like those of the past decade, particularly storms hitting more highly developed areas, will dramatically skew the situation. Second, while the people on the coast hit by storm surge and hurricane winds won't be claiming against flood insurance, all the people inland affected by rising water from the accompanying heavy rains will. All three storms caused extensive flooding over very wide areas inland.

If one agrees that climate change is occurring (I do, but others may not), the risk of increasing volatility of weather patterns and resulting increased likelihood of major floods puts the program in a very difficult place going forward - something that has been pointed out by its administrators.

Only the cause of climate change is debatable.

[Lannis]

Only the cause of climate change is debatable.

Well, I doubt that, unless you're just saying you'll put your fingers in your ears if you don't like what you hear.

It's tough getting information.    The NextBigFuture site trumpeted today's headline "UCLA physicists discover ‘apparent departure from the laws of thermodynamics’!"

And then the article winds up with "“Of course, this work does not violate the laws of thermodynamics, but it does demonstrate there are still some interesting, potentially useful things to learn about buffer gas cooling....”

Way too much politics involved with "Climate Change" fluffle to take what you hear at face value ....

Lannis