Rider down in front of me

[canuck750]

I was on a group ride this weekend, I don't like to ride in groups any more than three, two is better but in this case the group decided to follow the leader on a meandering and interesting series of back roads for an overnight trip. Some of the riders are very experienced 45 ~ 50 years in the saddle. I am just a pup with 39 years on two wheels.

No more than 15 minutes into an all day ride the leader brakes hard and makes an unexpected left turn. A little unnerving but not a big deal. Then the leader moves to make a sharp right, again unexpectedly and then reverses his decision and turns back onto a straight path on the road, 1st following rider is committing into a following turn outside of leader, brakes at the last second, bikes brush together and the 2nd position rider is literally thrown off his 1800cc Goldwing at about 30 ~ 40 mph. I am in 3rd about 30 feet back, watching the mess unfold and I veer left, thankfully no oncoming traffic on this two lane back road on a right hand curve. Rider is tumbling and low and behold the Wing rights itself and passes me on my right with no rider. Wing then slows, veers right in front of me, hits the ditch 3/4 of the way into a turn and lays down on its right side 130 degrees to the road. Rider was wearing a 3/4 helmet, leather coat and chaps, good gloves, scraped up helmet and a sprained thumb and finger plus the expected bruises and bumps. Amazing he did not break a bone or worse and the Wing only had scrapes on one bag side. All things considered a very lucky ending to a really unlucky event. Riders continued on, pain killers judiciously taken by the wounded rider.

At the start of the ride several asked what's the plan?, I asked where's lunch and we will meet there, take your own ride, be safe, ride your own pace.

The reason I find group rides so damn dangerous is that people follow to close or too far back and riders get distracted keeping up or braking rather than watching the road. I have had one long term (18 years) riding buddy who I have travelled all across North America without any incident. Many other guys have come and gone but only one or two had the same 'presence' on the road to be riding together.

I keep reminding myself no more riding in a group, meet for coffee and lunch along the way.

[oldbike54]

 WOW !

  Dusty

[Nic in Western NYS]

Only guy I ever rode with was my ex bro in law - an MSF instructor.  Just because of this sort of thing.  Glad you're ok, that was close to very bad.

[derek533]

This is precisely why I don't ride in groups and only very rarely, will ride with one other person.  Just too many horror stories of exactly what you describe;  followers just watching the leader and not the road. 

Be safe and glad to hear the Wing rider only got a few bumps and scrapes.  Can't imagine the repair bill on a Wing with all those fairings. 

[Arizona Wayne]

This is why I don't DO group rides either, or even duo rides unless I really know the other rider's habits.   Back in `96 a group of us Guzzisti decided to ride together@ a MGNOC National in Washington St.  Wife & I are 2up on our CX100.  The lead rider always rides solo and doesn't even live in Wash. St. but has this thing about leading bikes on a ride.  I'd never ridden with him before.  There's about 6 of us.  We're ding 50-55 mph and hitting lights on roads none of us are familiar with but we are all following his every movement and we're all trying to keep pretty close together in case an intersection light changes so nobody get's left behind if a light turns red.  A light turns YELLOW so he gasses it to make it thru the intersection......s o we gass it....then at the last second, he changes his mind and hits his brakes to stop for the intersection!!!    We're right behind him & I hit  our brakes but there's no way we can stop in time to not rearend him.  So I twist the front forks a smidge and am able to avoid touching his bike.  He's oblivious to what he almost caused.    After that I no longer rode near him `cause I then knew I couldn't count on his decision making.

[John Ulrich]

I was riding southbound to the WI rally a group passed by heading north on the two lane road in "ultra close formation".  I was speechless. Side by side with little room in front or rear.  Had to be 12 of them, 6 abreast.  As they passed only the roar of the group was heard.  Normally you will hear a roar, roar, roar as a group passes.  I only hoped that no one sneezed that day!

[Dilliw]

I don't mind groups although I give plenty of room.  I'm not so worried about spills in front of me so much as 1) I try to keep the competition out of it and 2) I try to work my lines and not the guy in front of me.  If that means backing off or being slow then so be it. 

Good thing about riding behind Wayne is he will always wait at the next intersection for me 

[Arizona Wayne]

20? years ago we met 50 Dutch Guzzi riders who shipped all their bikes in containers and started their adventure in the USA I believer @ Galveston, Texas going West.   They rode 2 wide and had a chase truck/trailer w/some spare parts in case.  1 day the got behind a flatbed truck w/firewood on it.  Unfortunately firewood started falling off the truck and bikers started making abrupt movements to miss the wood bouncing on the road.  1 Guzzisti went down and broke his leg.    He spent the rest of that trip w/his leg in a cast and he in the PU truck.  From that point on the bikers started 5 min. apart in groups of 3/4 so no one else hopefully got hurt.  We met them @ a KOA @ Lake Tahoe on that trip.

[rtbickel]

I've only been on a couple of group rides and while OK and they were very safety oriented, they are not really for me.  I've been riding with the same dude for 45 years (Honda CL 70 and Honda 65 hooligans back then) and I know what he will be doing and where he is going to be even if I can't lay eyes on him at all times.  We may take one more with us, but it is usually someone we have known for a long while or are otherwise known to not be stupid or squid-like.

[mjptexas]

If I ride with more than 2 others it has to be with people I have ridden with before, and that have demonstrated that they know what they're doing.  More than six & I take up my position waaay in the rear.

[Cool Runnings]

 

I Drink Alone

[Tom]

:1: on being in the rear of a group ride.  Especially with a leader that I don't know.  If I have someone on my tail while in a group ride, I'll wave them forward.  One idiot persisted on following and passing in right hand turns on the right side going into the turns.  Then he would fall back to follow again and repeat the process.  He wanted to show that his track time made him a better rider than me.  I pulled over after one turn and told him that "it's" not working.  Didn't sink in.  He totally ignored riding on the street vs riding on the track.  We ditched him after he passed all in the group and pulled way in front on a straight.

Next time, he insisted on riding with us.  I told him "No".  He persisted after 2 "No's".  I finally was at the edge of shouting to him that he was dangerous to ride with and I didn't want him causing an accident.  The rest of the friends there agreed.  This was the Sunday morning group of riders that met at Starbucks.  Mainly Euro bike riders and experienced.  Largest group was 8 but staggered formation.  If you want to be out front then go ahead but no racing within the group.  Passing on the left and ride your own ride.  After underway, if you want to lead then by all means pass and take-over.  No ego's involved.  Some like to follow and cut the same lines.  I usually lead in mountain type roads that are Alpen style.  Long sweepers and straights, I fall behind because I'm on a Guzzi with 45hp.

[Farmer Dan]

I've ridden in several groups/packs and can't say that I enjoy it.  I always make sure I'm the last bike and stay far enough back that I don't hit someone if they jump on their brakes or go down.

[Guzzistajohn]

I think group rides are absolutely great as long as I'm not in them........or behind them👀

[brenwin]

Seeing the Gold Wing go by without a rider would be unnerving to say the last .
I braked hard for a squirrel once and my buddy riding a beautiful 850 T damn near rear ended me . I still hear about that from time to time , lol .
Glad everyone came away in one piece including the Gold Wing ! Very lucky .

Cheers ,
Steve

[pebra]

Distance is my friend when riding, 360°.
I just love distance.
If this goes with the rest of the group, I can ride with that group.

[Cool Runnings]

Distance, riding with my brother. 

[Scud]

Thanks for the story. It's also a good reminder for any of us who have people following - be sure to give lot's of advance warning for your turns, slows, lane changes, etc. When I ride with my Harley buddies, I either go ahead and wait at turns - or I hang back in the straights and close distance through the corners (but no passing).

I only like group riding in the dirt. Even then, I want a lot of distance between riders, because falls (and stalls) are much more common in technical terrain. I got pissed at my buddy who rode over my bike once because he follows too close - it could have me that he rode over when I fell in front of him. If he couldn't avoid the bike, he would not have been able to avoid my body if it was in the same place.

[canuck750]

Seeing the Gold Wing go by without a rider would be unnerving to say the last .
Cheers ,
Steve

Surreal to say the least,

the 950+ lb Gold Wing reacted like a bucking bronk, as the Wing glanced off the 1st bike the Wing pilot grabbed a handful of front brake bringing the front end into a dive, bike going right, front wheel left, rider ejected left. The bike now without a rider squeezing the brake sprung back up, corrected itself and rode on, I bet it looks just like this when a horse comes to a sudden stop, drops its head and launches a rider. I could have reached out and grabbed the Wings handlebar as it went sailing by, but unlike a rodeo clown restraining a spooked horse I don't think I, my bike or the Wing would have ended up coming to a safe stop.

As for having to tell riders that I was not going to ride with them I have done that a couple times, usually tailgaters who feel they need to be six feet off my tail light and just sail by me when I need to brake or idiots in front who miss every agreed to turn off, gas station or rest stop and when they finally do stop are stunned they missed the turn off to wherever by a half hour.

One dolt who came on a trip kept passing to the front and then missed the turnoffs, he was left to sail on in oblivion after doing the same stunt a couple times. Hours latter he caught up to us and flagged us over, indignant that we had not caught him and brought him back on track. For a year this clown had bragged he had ridden everywhere, no distance was too far, blah, blah, blah and after a couple hours into a trip asked if we were going to stop for the day. On top of that he could barley hold the speed limit but repeatedly said it was due to the unfamiliar tires he had installed. Each night we were regaled with tales of his exploits racing motocross as a young man or his countless hours of track time. He was always crossing the center line on curves and braking late into corners. The next day of this crap my buddy told him to just piss off and we left him in New Mexico to fend for himself.

[Doppelgaenger]

Yikes, I gave up on most group riding as well and I haven't had a single close call since I did. If I could find a group of like-minded riders then I'd be OK doing it, but not really in any hurry to find them.

I've been down on a group ride because I (stupidly) thought I could keep up with people that were better riders than myself.  And I've watched people break their motorcycles because they crashed at 15 mph, which is what you get when you try and show off in a group environment.

I also got into a sort of group ride of Harleys coming off of Mt St Helens. I had to leave them because they were so slow I was actually dozing off on the bike. Or maybe it was the fumes... 

[Arizona Wayne]

1 time years ago we came upon a group of riders around Yakima, Wa. 2 wide on a curvy river road going slower than we cared to go.  Had to say I was impressed they were all in synch accelerating and off the throttle........... .....but they were too slow for us and it WAS a public ROAD!!    I safely carved them up and we got by them but they acted like we broke the LAW doing it like THEY owned that road !!  Screw them.  We pay taxes too.   

[Tom]

Drives me nuts too!

[OlderSlower]

I enjoy riding with a friend or 2, but we have all been riding together for many years and everything works well because we know each other and the fast guys ride ahead and don't do stupid stuff.  I am no longer one of the fast guys...

[sturgeon]

I've done a few group rides with my pals, but I much prefer solo. 30 feet behind at 30-40 mph?? If I'm riding in a group at any speed at all, and someone comes within 300 meters of me, I'm outta there, so long, see ya, I'll continue alone.

I still remember from my high school physics classes 50+ years ago - 30 mph equals 44 ft/sec. Who can react to sh*t happening in under a second? Even when I was 25, I sure as hell couldn't.

[Guzzistajohn]

I was riding in SE Missouri one time and hit a wabbit, my BMW riding buddy was following a little closely. The rabbit landed in his lap.

[Shorty]

I'll catch up at the gas station or.....

[LowRyter]

we lost a fellow rider on a Suzuki Bandit ride in east Texas 15 years ago.  Sad deal. 

[sign216]

I met a local group, with the intent on joining for their usual Sunday rides. 
Met in the parking lot at Dunkin Donuts, Easton, Ma, waiting for everyone to arrive.

I left before we even started to ride, as it was apparent that the leader too greatly enjoyed the command of his group.

I like the company of riding solo.  Happy to meet others at the destination, but not on the ride.

[Tom]

I don't like leading a group, if done right.  Too much responsibility.  You have to preset your your signals ahead of time.  Prep ride meeting. etc.  Most guys will roll their eyes at that. 

[Jerdo1]

'Have travelled around Europe a number of times in groups - never more than three - and we are all familiar with each others riding style.

The best advice I got was from an old sage - always have an escape - so if there's three, or however many of you, and you're riding in a group through towns etc, try and take up a staggered formation on the road so that rider 1 is maybe toward the crown of the road with 3 (and so forth) in the same position but a safe way back and 2 is offset, nearer the verge. This means that if 1 brakes 2 has an escape up his inside and 3 has the distance to stop.

In that group of three riders the most important rider is 2, particularly when you start to get strung out on a long road. If rider 3 is falling behind, 2 slows down which 1 will see. Similarly if 3 is keeping up 2 can move a little closer. Out of the three of us one guy NEVER wanted to lead but was happy being 2 or 3 and it works fine.  You also need to talk about stopping points (even if it's "the first gas station after 120 miles"). After a while it becomes almost intuitive and you know how they will ride and react.

This simple way has worked for us for over 20,000 miles across every conceivable road and weather and we've never (touch wood!) had a spill, or even a close thing.

The other advice he gave me was - ride your own ride - which I took (and take) to mean, just because the rider in front makes an overtake doesn't mean you can or should. Same applies when assessing an overtake - assess it for yourself - not for others to follow. If they do they should be doing it for the same reason - THEY have assessed it, and deemed it safe.

Safe Riding

Jerry


"Here endeth the lesson..."