How do the V11 Sport series compare to the 2V CARC bikes?

[flip]

I really like my Breva 1100. The ride and handling are good up to a moderate pace and it is a great traveling bike.

For you guys that have sampled both, how do you think the 01-04 V11 Sport series ( standard and Ohlins suspension) compare to the 2V CARC bikes? Those older bikes are drop dead gorgeous but if they don't ride or handle as well as the newer bikes, I need to stop looking at them. Or at least give up on trying to get one.

[rocker59]

The last of the spine frames were Guzzi's pinnacle in road-going sporty bikes.

I'd take a V11 Sport or LeMans over a CARC everytime, for sporty work.  Or even SPORT-touring work...

[bad Chad]

Other side of the coin here.  I'm pretty sure a v11-sport in the right hands could pull away a bit from a Breva on twisty roads.   However, my guess is 85% of riders don't have enough talent or guts to push either hard enough to make it happen, myself included.  The v11s are buy design more sporty, though a CARC 1200 Sport narrows the gap.

For sport touring, I think the CARCs are the way to go.  If you want to upgrade your CARC suspension, there's plenty of options available.  The B1100 can do it all, quite well, it really is a great all rounder.

[guzziownr]

I'm on my third Griso...

I had a V11 Sport Naked as pictured below and am currently riding a Griso SE like the other picture.  The spine frame was a revelation after riding loops and then tonti bikes.  I was so comfortable and confident that tricky and technical back road riding was a pleasure.

That said I think the Griso was an improvement: 

(1)  The engine was moved forward so the bike was more balanced front to rear.  The Griso felt more "on its toes".

(2)  Neither bike was lacking brakes but a switch to HH pads on the Griso showed instant improvement.  Probably would have done the same for the Sport.

(3)  The twin plug motor in the first gen Griso was slightly more powerful and smoother that the Sport.  Guzzi claimed that the Sport motor had higher compression but this turned out to be brochure engineering.  The reality was that the only change from the California motor was in the CPU.  Cal Vintage riders discovered that a Sport CPU woke up their bikes, checkbook tuning at its finest!

My 2013 Griso got to stretch its legs on the track recently.  More better everthing!

[LowRyter]

The last of the spine frames were Guzzi's pinnacle in road-going sporty bikes.

I'd take a V11 Sport or LeMans over a CARC everytime, for sporty work.  Or even SPORT-touring work...

agree.  The spine bikes have a great handling feel and responsiveness that belie the numbers.  The 8v Norge/Griso are nice bikes with perhaps more top end power.  I have not ridden one that I would trade my Greenie for, not even a second thought about it. 

[pete roper]

None of them will handle brilliantly with stock suspension.

IMHO the 'Zochi forks on the V11 were very pedestrian. The Ohlins could be made to work well but it took time/money. The V11 frame and cantilever rear end are flex prone and fragile.

Not all CARC bikes are the same. Once again the models that use Marzocchi suspension at the front, especially the Breva/Sport/Norge are pretty ordinary. The Stelvio's USD forks are better. Griso's use Showas which are a very good fork but all of them need work to perform optimally. The Sachs shocks are all fairly drac.

Personally I never really understood the attraction of the Spineys? Not saying they're a bad bike but for me? I'll take my Griso any day of the week. I have put a lot of work into the suspension though. The CARC bike frames are a lot more rigid too.

Pete

[malik]

The V11 does LOOK much better though (eye of the beholder). My bias is showing.

[bad Chad]

I'll second Pete on the CARC frame.  Though I have not spent a lot of time on spine frame sports, I can say that the CARC frame crushes the Tonti when it comes to frame flex.

[dsrdave]

To me newer is better but not by a lot.  I love both bikes, FAR better than any tonti.  The spines are a bit better looking to me but I like the griso.  You can't go wrong with either bike.  Go for a ride on each and find out which one fits you better.  The riding position is a bit better for me on the griso.

[alanp]

None of them will handle brilliantly with stock suspension.

IMHO the 'Zochi forks on the V11 were very pedestrian. The Ohlins could be made to work well but it took time/money. The V11 frame and cantilever rear end are flex prone and fragile.

Not all CARC bikes are the same. Once again the models that use Marzocchi suspension at the front, especially the Breva/Sport/Norge are pretty ordinary. The Stelvio's USD forks are better. Griso's use Showas which are a very good fork but all of them need work to perform optimally. The Sachs shocks are all fairly drac.

Personally I never really understood the attraction of the Spineys? Not saying they're a bad bike but for me? I'll take my Griso any day of the week. I have put a lot of work into the suspension though. The CARC bike frames are a lot more rigid too.

Pete

It s amazing how different people get such different sensations and opinions of bikes.

My experience, having owned a Norge, Griso, and now a 2002 V11 Lemans would better mirror Rocker's and LowRyter's opinion.  My 2007 Norge needed a lot of help to handle decently (major and expensive suspension upgrades) and then it was OK.  The 2007 Griso is better, but I struggled with its handling the entire time I owned the bike.  The steering was heavy, and it wanted to "flop over" in slow speed turns.  Felt like the bars wanted to go to full stop, and you had to fight it. I fiddled with it endlessly and it never seemed right to me.  It was not confidence inspiring.
The v11?  I have owned over 20 bikes and probably ridden 50+ and the V11 is in a class by itself.  I have never been on a bike that handled so well, so effortlessly, that was so planted and secure feeling.  It is completely different world than any other bike I have ever been on except one.  That one was a V11 Nero Corsa with the Ohlins suspension (mine is just the "standard" non-Ohlins).  For me, there is NOTHING like a spine frame Guzzi.  My only regret is I didn't buy one sooner.

[flip]

Thanks for the input guys.

[mjptexas]

My comparison, 2004 V11 Ballabio vs. 2006 Griso:





This may be a closer comparison that some others as the push rod Griso engine is closer in configuration to the V11 engine, where the newer Grisos have had the 8V steroid shot.

I may not be the best to judge as the V11 came into my possession  well after the Griso, so I've put about 5,000 miles more on the Griso than the V11.

Comments on the Ballabio:
- Sneaky fast.  For some reason I don't feel like I'm accelerating quickly, but the speedometer tells a different story.
- Very roomy and comfortable.  Handle bars on the the Ballabio gives you a more upright riding position than some of the other V11s.  Saddle is reasonably comfortable and the reach to the ground is ok.
- Handling seems quicker and a bit lighter than the Griso.  Unfortunately it doesn't get as much riding time as some of my other bikes so I've not pushed it as hard as the Griso, therefore I really don't know what it's limits are.
- I do get more vibration through the bars than I care for.  This remains present even after a tune up and throttle body synch.

Comments on the Griso:
- Much more refined bike.  Fit and finish is better and seems more thought out. 
- Riding position is as comfortable as the Ballabio.
- Handling may be a little heavier than the Ballabio.

Overall the Griso gets my vote as a better bike.  A good rider would be able to take the V11 through the twisties faster than the push rod Griso.  However, the Griso is a much better bike up to the 85% level.

[Travlr]

The last of the spine frames were Guzzi's pinnacle in road-going sporty bikes.

I'd take a V11 Sport or LeMans over a CARC everytime, for sporty work.  Or even SPORT-touring work...

I'd 2nd this.  But add I think my B-11 was a better touring bike than my Scura.
I did a saddle sore 1000 on the B-11.  Not sure I'd do that with the Scura.

Never the less, the B-11 is gone and the Scura is a keeper.

Mike

[rocker59]

I'd 2nd this.  But add I think my B-11 was a better touring bike than my Scura.
I did a saddle sore 1000 on the B-11.  Not sure I'd do that with the Scura.

Never the less, the B-11 is gone and the Scura is a keeper.

Mike
 

Last year, I ran the Colorado Classic 1000 with Mile High Guzzi (Mark) as my riding partner.

He was riding his Breva 1200 Sport.  The bigger gas tank and more relaxed ergos seem to make it a very comfortable mile-muncher.  Very cool bikes, and unfortunate that they weren't very popular sellers.

I rode my Sport 1100 and persevered just fine on the twisty-filled thousand mile ride, despite its racy ergos and a very long day.  In 2009, I rode my V11 LeMans Nero Corsa in the Colorado Classic 1000.  Great fun, and survived it just fine.  I know most people would not ride the Spine Frame bikes like that, but it can be done. 

You just have to want to!

[pete roper]

Back in whenever? 2007? Can't remember! I rode the Scura RC from Houston to LA. That was a trip! I have to say right now the even with the risers it has it was only really comfortable on those wide open Texas roads when the speedo needle was buried in 'Go to gaol' territory. No way in the world could I still do that now!

Conversely, riding my Griso, (There are few ergonomic differences between the 2 Valver and the 8 Valver, (And why do we use such blatantly idiotic descriptors for the two donks? ) it's like a great friendly pussycat. I can put in 800km days on it, (As long as I want to ride nowadays.) and get off fresh as a daisy. Yes, if you hold it above 'The Ton' you'll get 'Neck Stretch' but other than that? Glorious.

Pete

[MGrego]

I agree with the comments above --

My V11 Lemans is more "fun" to ride than my Norge, but I generally go for shorter distances on it due to the ergos.  Yes, I've ridden it as a sport touring bike for long distances, but I'd really rather travel long distance by Norge !!  Not everyone is a masochist like Rocker !! 

[flip]

I keep lusting over the V11 bikes with conventional handlebars and Ohlins suspension. There is just something about them that makes me want to just stare.

Until I'd bought my Breva 1100, I'd only seen 1 Guzzi in person, that I could recall. Since then, I've test ridden a Stelvio and a V7 small block something or other. Neither of those last 2 spoke to me.

[pauldaytona]

The spine frame is older geometrics, and made for the long 5 speed gearbox. The swingarm is very short so rear suspension isn't so well. The Carc has a very long swingarm what makes it much better, and for touring it's a big plus.

The spine frame is lighter then the Carc frame. Also the pine is a Guzzi development, coming from the  Daytona & Dr John. Who looked at tony foales frame before :-)
The carc is an aprilia based development.
I have both in a bike, and both have their uses.

[Moto]

...(There are few ergonomic differences between the 2 Valver and the 8 Valver, (And why do we use such blatantly idiotic descriptors for the two donks? )

I proposed using the terms "2 valve" and "8 valve" right after the 8-valve Griso came out. You hated the idea then, and said so. Now you're using them!

We do it to avoid the ambiguity of "4 valve."

You're welcome.

Moto

[bad Chad]

The spine frame is older geometrics, and made for the long 5 speed gearbox. The swingarm is very short so rear suspension isn't so well. The Carc has a very long swingarm what makes it much better, and for touring it's a big plus.

The spine frame is lighter then the Carc frame. Also the pine is a Guzzi development, coming from the  Daytona & Dr John. Who looked at tony foales frame before :-)
The carc is an aprilia based development.
I have both in a bike, and both have their uses.

I'm not disagreeing, but I do wonder what the real weight difference is?   How do you know the CARC frame is heavier?  Sure the CARC looks heavy, but is it really?

[pete roper]

Believe me. CARC frames are HEAVY! Not even considering the swingarms. The Griso frame weighs as much as a medium sized pachyderm!

[Chuck in Indiana]

My 2V Norge was a comfortable soft riding mile eater. Handling was fair, at best, but for long distance travel it was hard to beat.
It was no comparison on a twisty road to the Ohlins Scura. I've ridden the Kid's Grease O that he's dialed in. It works well, but I'll take the Scura. He's riding the 1100 Sport now, and the Grease Os sitting in the garage. <shrug> Different strokes for different folks. All of em are great.