California Vintage 15rc fuel map assistance

[Sheepdog]

Antman:
Sorry for the slow response. I've been pretty busy...

I am not sure what map got loaded; only that it was updated by a Guzzi technician at a Guzzi dealer. I think it got done in May of 2010. My Vintage is also a '07. It improved cold starts and low-speed throttle response, but dropped the mileage from 47mpg to 42. Pete Roper has all the info re updated maps...perhaps he'll join in.

[pauldaytona]

Antman, what is the map you have now? Look leftbottom in guzzidiag screen, I have all, but need an emailaddress to send you something. 

You can have:

61601.048.01  3D09CB23
61601.398.00  3D09C28P

[antmanbee]

I don't have the bike connected to Guzzidiag right now but my original map loaded in Tunerpro says in the ECU Model field: 6160139800  and in the Map Name field:  3D09C28P

Thanks very much pauldaytona.
I'll PM you the email address.

[pauldaytona]

I don't have the bike connected to Guzzidiag right now but my original map loaded in Tunerpro says in the ECU Model field: 6160139800  and in the Map Name field:  3D09C28P

Thanks very much pauldaytona.
I'll PM you the email address.

Then there is no newer map, but I send you a few different maps, nice to try what happens, and see differences between maps in tunerpro.

[antmanbee]

Are all those maps for the 15rc?
I assume that a map for a 15m can not be loaded on a 15rc.  A 15m map is useful for comparison and then manually modifying the 15rc map to something similar, Correct?

[pauldaytona]

Are all those maps for the 15rc?
I assume that a map for a 15m can not be loaded on a 15rc.  A 15m map is useful for comparison and then manually modifying the 15rc map to something similar, Correct?

 15m does not fit on 15rc ecu, but if you can open them in the 15rc xdf it is 15rc. I think they all are 15rc.

What do you see in the area where it isn't ok, as lambda value from lc1?

[antmanbee]

15m does not fit on 15rc ecu, but if you can open them in the 15rc xdf it is 15rc

That makes sense.

I'll have to open them tonight, got to go to work.

Thanks

[Sheepdog]

Does anyone know the rpm and/or throttle percentage where the map changes from closed loop to open loop? It seems to me, possibly, that the factory tune in closed loop on the O2 models is not as polished as it should be.
under 3000 rpm poor running seems to be a very common complaint. I just fitted an H pipe to mine, removing the cat. I've had limited chance to test it, but that seems to make the under 3000 rpm running WORSE. Now is that due to altering exhaust tuning? I doubt it. But what about the flow around the O2 sensor? Maybe...

Once I've done the TPS settings and balanced the TB's (PO was pretty on to that stuff though) I'm thinking I need to look at the O2 sensor operation.

The factory crossover is not a catalytic converter. According to Mssr. Roper, the cat is in the mufflers. Apparently, the fuel injection mapping on the Vintage is a hybrid. It operates on a closed loop up to 3,000 rpms, but after that it changes to an open loop system. Lots of Vintage owners spring for the GuzziTech re-flash of their CPU. The re-flash eliminates the closed-loop portion of the map and allows open-loop mapping similar to the type used on V1100 Sport from 1995-2000.
http://www.guzzitech.com/store/product/gt-rx-ecu-re-flash-services/

[antmanbee]

Just follow the link at the bottom of pauldaytona's post and there is everything you need to back up, turn off the O2 sensor (make open loop), modify your fuel and ignition maps + more, and then reflash the map to the ECU. It is all available for free (or an optional donation) and it is easy to do.
I will make available maps that I modify if someone requests it. I am at the beginning stages of this process and will post my progress here.
The more people working on this, the more and better options for ECU maps.

[Mr Revhead]

The factory crossover is not a catalytic converter. According to Mssr. Roper, the cat is in the mufflers. Apparently, the fuel injection mapping on the Vintage is a hybrid. It operates on a closed loop up to 3,000 rpms, but after that it changes to an open loop system. Lots of Vintage owners spring for the GuzziTech re-flash of their CPU. The re-flash eliminates the closed-loop portion of the map and allows open-loop mapping similar to the type used on V1100 Sport from 1995-2000.
http://www.guzzitech.com/store/product/gt-rx-ecu-re-flash-services/

Hmm really? That's interesting, it sure looks like a cat! and does less for engine noise than the mufflers. Replacing it didn't really get the noise gain I was after!

I've heard a lot of the Guzzitech tunes, I'm just not keen to try a custom tune done for a different markets fuels.

[Cross-tie Walker]

Change the cross over to get rid of the 02, put in a V11 sport ECU and be done with it.
You'll be glad you did

[Sheepdog]

Hmm really? That's interesting, it sure looks like a cat! and does less for engine noise than the mufflers. Replacing it didn't really get the noise gain I was after!

I thought the same, but Pete set me straight. Like you, I like to have just a little rumble...nothing obnoxious, but a bit "throat-ier". Along with a Mistral H-pipe, I cut three 1" holes in my airbox lid and popped in three airbox vents (I did a bit of dirt biking before I got all old). This gave my Vintage the sound I wanted to hear while riding, without abusing my community. It also made my bike a little freer breathing without completely removing the airbox lid. I also tried Mistral SS mufflers, but they were too free-flowing for my FI map and produced way too much popping when decelerating. They looked great, but I went back to the stockers.

http://www.motosport.com/UNI-Air-Box-Vents

[Sheepdog]

Just follow the link at the bottom of pauldaytona's post and there is everything you need to back up, turn off the O2 sensor (make open loop), modify your fuel and ignition maps + more, and then reflash the map to the ECU. It is all available for free (or an optional donation) and it is easy to do.
I will make available maps that I modify if someone requests it. I am at the beginning stages of this process and will post my progress here.
The more people working on this, the more and better options for ECU maps.

Thank you, Antman and Paul. I will follow your progress with great interest.

[antmanbee]

Sheepdog, your bike looks nice.

I like the sound of the intake with a more open setup. My pipes are stock and I don't like them loud, but just a bit more would be ok with me.

I tend to like my bikes with less chrome and un-fared, in other words, just the basics. I still need to change the handle bars to a more euro or superbike style.
I just need a set of 7/8 inch clamps, as mine are for the Guzzi fat bars.

[pauldaytona]

like that the rear fender looks way to much back, need to move 4 inches forward to fit the wheel better

[antmanbee]

like that the rear fender looks way to much back, need to move 4 inches forward to fit the wheel better

I think it looks that way because it is on the center stand. It looks more normal with weight on the rear. I don't think there is any adjustment for the fender anyway.

[Sheepdog]

My bike wears the Stone touring bars (from an '82 Cal Stone). They are also 30mm in diameter, but are lower and narrower than the beach bars.

[scra99tch]

Sheep Dog do you still have the Mistral Mufflers?

[Sheepdog]

No...I sold them to a member of this forum some years ago.

[antmanbee]

I have been busy comparing maps and trying them and testing them the last few days with quite good success. The best map for my Cal Vin 15rc is a V11_LEMANS_CAT_MY03 from pauldaytona. It smoothed out the powerband at all RPMs. The bike runs great at low RPMs, very smooth at slow speeds with never a cough, hiccup or backfire. After a lot of riding this weekend, the only thing that could use some improvement is some pinging under hard acceleration from 2500-3000 in 4th or 5th. I am modifying the ignition map slightly to see if I can improve that.
Also the engine seems to run about 8-9 degrees cooler with the new map.
I am so much more happy with the bike now.

I also uploaded a new map to a friends 2001 Jackal 15m today and he is experiencing a similar much improved drive-ability.
The map we used on that was from Meinolf.

[fotoguzzi]

  under hard acceleration from 2500-3000 in 4th or 5th. 

UMmm, that would be lugging your motor..you need to rev more before shifting..

[Sheepdog]

Okay. I need to get busy and start looking at GuzziDiag...

[Mr Revhead]

Where are people getting these maps from? Link?

[pauldaytona]

Where are people getting these maps from? Link?

They are not in the internet, but they can be passed around as much as anyone likes.

[antmanbee]

UMmm, that would be lugging your motor..you need to rev more before shifting..

I agree that ideally one would want to down shift a gear or two for passing or brisk acceleration. But the engine is very comfortable at around 3000 RPM for just cruising at a steady speed.
This motor makes almost it's peak torque from 2k up to 7k, and producing close to half it's max HP at 3000 RPM. The bike should be able to roll on the throttle at this RPM to accelerate also, if so desired.
See this thread for dyno info.http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=28424.0

[redrider]

No offence intended but the intake setup looks to be fighting itself. One cylinder  tied to the other without a plenum goes against everything I have experienced with engines since wheels were wood. Separate them with pods. My Mille runs them with excellent response everywhere. (Carbs) My V11 trundles along nicely at 2K, second gear in the hood. Gentle roll on with nary a hiccup. Above second gear, I keep it at 3k or above. The Sport 1100 does not like to accept throttle below 3K-40mm carbs.

[Wayne Orwig]

The best map for my Cal Vin 15rc is a V11_LEMANS_CAT_MY03 from pauldaytona.
snip.....
After a lot of riding this weekend, the only thing that could use some improvement is some pinging under hard acceleration from 2500-3000 in 4th or 5th. I am modifying the ignition map slightly to see if I can improve that.

So you are running a single spark plug map, in a twin plugged motor?
Wouldn't the Lemans timing need to be retarded a good bit to be safe?

[antmanbee]

redrider,

Why would I take offence? I think you may not understand my intake setup. They are no more tied together than pods or the factory airbox. I am using the factory velocity stacks that went into the airbox, and then I am putting a foam sock that allows air from any direction over the tubes. It is open from all directions and is really no different than those tubes going into a box with the air coming from a filter above. One throttlebody is not sucking the air out of the other throttlebody.

I have used this setup rather than pods on all my previous Guzzis with carbs. It is easier, cheaper and as good as pods and I like the look of it too.

The throttle response on my bike is excellent with the new map, as good or possibly better than my older Guzzis with carbs. A gentle roll on is not a problem. Low speed and lower RPM response is great now. If I wack open the throttle in 4th or 5th between 2500 and 3000 it pings too much. It does not hiccup, it pulls fine, just too much pinging. I will load a slightly modified map with approx 2 degree retarded ignition map in the lower RPM range and see if that helps.

[antmanbee]

So you are running a single spark plug map, in a twin plugged motor?
Wouldn't the Lemans timing need to be retarded a good bit to be safe?

That's what I thought too.
I tried other maps first and it was not as good. I remember reading in other threads that before guzzidiag some had changed the stock ecu with ones from the 1100 sport and they reported a remarkable difference.

My heads seem to run cooler than with the stock map, which is a good sign. My plugs look good so far, though I have only put a hundred miles or so on the bike since the reflash. I have compared the ignition map of the stock Cal Vin to the 1100 sport and the max advance is not much different but the midrange on the sport was a bit more advanced, but it also supplies more fuel.
I don't have anyway to test it except by the seat of my pants and my ears. So far the 1100 sport map is excellent with the exception of the above mentioned pinging.
Under most driving conditions I do not detect any pinging.

[gelos]

Hi, You can try my version ignition map, it is made for V11 MY02 15M with rebuilt twin plugged heads, also you can add 2-3 degree more, I have higher compression. Interpolate it to your RPM and TPS breakpoints.