73 Eldorado Transmission Problem

[CleveJoe]

Hello, I just joined this site to maybe get some help with this old bike! I own a nice '73 Eldorado with original paint & just 22k miles on it. I spent a lot of time on tuning up and maintenance over the winter. I had it starting great, running smooth and was shifting fine but always had a little trouble finding neutral (will not start without neutral light on). the other day it wouldn't get into third gear and the shifter became somewhat sloppy? I adjusted the clutch cable and the gearbox adjustment locknut and screw. Now the neutral light stays on in gear and will make a whining sound as I let off the clutch. I am now afraid to go any further for I may of made more of a problem.
I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area and am crying out for help! Help!!
Thanks for reading and I hope to hear your comments,
Joe

[pehayes]

           shifting fine but always had a little trouble finding neutral (will not start without neutral light on).

You can always modify the wiring so it will start in any gear, but you risk inadvertently starting when it is NOT fully in neutral.

            the other day it wouldn't get into third gear and the shifter became somewhat sloppy?

Only third?  Can you get past third to fourth?


            I adjusted the clutch cable and the gearbox adjustment locknut and screw.

Which "...gearbox adjustment locknut and screw."  The one on the business end of the cable?  The one contained within the lever arm?  The one embedded in the rear cover casting?  If you haven't, don't touch the latter!

            Now the neutral light stays on in gear and will make a whining sound as I let off the clutch.

Light on in ALL gears?  Might you have shorted the neutral switch wire in any way?  That wire and switch are engergized and just go to ground to ignite the light.  Any short circuit will cause the light to remain constant.

Can you record and post a brief YouTube of the whining sound?

Have you removed and inspected the throwout bearing at the back of the transmission?  Easy to do if you remove the lever at the back of the transmission. 
Don't adjust the cable so tight that this bearing remains constantly loaded.

             I am now afraid to go any further for I may of made more of a problem.  I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area and am crying out for help! Help!!

Hopefully there is someone nearby who can run to you and listen to the issue.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[CleveJoe]

Patrick,
Thanks for the input. I would like to modify the neutral light wiring. I can only find 1st. and 2nd. gear. I adjusted all of the above and the latter? I try checking the throwout bearing. Here's a picture of the bike from last summer.
Joe

[Guzzer]

The shift return spring is a common thing to break in that transmission.  Parts of it could break off and end up making noises and other mischief.  First check to see it it spring back to centered. Pish on the shift lever the opposite direction to bring it back to slightly past center & then try to shift and it works, that might be your problem.

[pehayes]

The shift return spring is a common thing to break in that transmission.

 :1: on the return spring.  Easy to determine.  If you shift in either direction, the foot lever stays in that position and does not return to center.  Is this your issue?

As for the neutral wire, just figure a way to route it directly to ground.  The light will always be on and you can then start at any time.  Doesn't explain why is is staying on now.

You really should browse and join the Loopframe_Guzzi discussion forum at yahoogroups.com and also study Greg Bender's site at:

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe.html

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Thanks for the input. I would like to modify the neutral light wiring.

The wiring "modification" is nothing more than removing the black wire from the stud of the neutral light switch and attaching it to the transmission case somewhere (one of the two bolts holding the neutral light switch to the case is a good place). The green wire for the neutral light is left attached to the switch stud. Then, just remember to pull in the clutch before starting the engine.

In case you don't know what the neutral switch looks like, here's a photo:



It's located on the left side of the transmission housing, behind the starter.

[normzone]

So I imagine it's probably too late to convince you that this beautiful bike is ruint now? That I should fly out there, give you a hundred bucks for it and ride it home in second gear?

Yeah...I was afraid that was the case. Gawd, what a nice bike. You'll get it sorted out, I've stuck my nose in that transmission before and it's not too scarey.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Patrick,
Thanks for the input. I would like to modify the neutral light wiring. I can only find 1st. and 2nd. gear. I adjusted all of the above and the latter? I try checking the throwout bearing. Here's a picture of the bike from last summer.
Joe

On the rear of the gearbox there's a bolt sticking out with a locknut, it has an eccentric on the inside for locating the pawl spring. it has to be set just right to allow you to shift from 2nd to third.
If you touched that it might account for the difficulty shifting
Try rocking the pedal up slightly before you push it down, this may allow the pawl to catch the next tooth.

[CleveJoe]

Thanks for all the responses. I think the problem is the return spring. I did check out the website "this old tractor" and made a copy of the 850 Eldorado Spare Parts Catalogue. I found the return spring in the Gearbox / Controls Plate and I hope to order it through Harpers' tomorrow. Is this a difficult job to replace? Can the job be done without removing the transmission?
Thanks again for all the advice,
Joe

[Guzzer]

My return spring on my T3 (same basic tranny) was broken when I bought the bike, and I bought the new version of the spring, but the job was too daunting for me.   I always figured I would fix it when I had to remove the engine anyway. PO had attached a spring above and below to bring the shifter back to center and it worked ok. I have converted it to a floorboard model now so it's easy to just bring the shifter back to center

I'm not recommending that you don't fix it, just telling you what mine was like. Mine has had no noises since I've had it, but if yours is making noise it could be doing a bit of damage.  At least try to get the spring pieces out, perhaps with a small penlight type magnet.  T3s have a magnetic fill plug  which would also be good to use to pick up the little bits and pieces so they don't do anymore damage.  If most of the spring stayed in place, there might not be any issues, but the possibility exists that those metal bits could do damage.

Hopefully someone on here has done the job and can give us an idea of how difficult it would be for amateurs.   I've never worked on transmissions in fear I would never get the darn thing back together!

[pehayes]

Is this a difficult job to replace? Can the job be done without removing the transmission?

Piece of cake.  Just remove everything that isn't a transmission.  Seriously, the transmission has to come to the bench and you'll need a few special tools to take it apart.  And, there are a few little 'gotchas' like the speedo drive ball and the speedo drive thrust washers.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA