What is it with Harley Riders? RANT

[Ncdan]

In my 64 years I've owned or at least experienced the ride of most every bike that has been brought to the US and enjoyed every one of them. I have my second MOTO GUZZI coming from ID now. The Guzzi is just an unique motorcycle that is a pleasure to own.

[atavar]

I get your grrrr. Been there.

JMHO: when you encounter a group ride, either pass them all carefully or pull  off for lunch. Been in group rides, we did not like to have a rider cut around us and tuck in when we were tight. With many gaps in the group, ok, just not when tight.

One time a ricki racer passed our group in a corner, we didn't mind it in a straight, not in a corner as you should work your way through as above. If we were all correct he ended up hitting a rock/boulder on the outside of a corner by being careless, we think while passing a car as one was stopped at the scene. Scene dig not look pretty.

I understand frustration!! Please be careful!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom

First off, group rides do not own the road.  They should not ride tight and un-passable.  This is just plain rude and boorish.  Even by rules of the road large groups without a parade permit are required to have breaks to allow people to pass.  If you group as a rolling road block you are creating the problem and should expect people to pass as necessary to get by you.  Not everyone on the road has your agenda or schedule.

[redrider]

Round here, most of the HD females look like Buffarillas. There isn't enough booze OR Viagra. No thanks.

[Red Dog]

Isn't the double line in the center of the road a tire guide?

I thought that was the secure passing lane to go past all slow moving vehicles?

[rss29]

There sure is a lot of animosity directed at Harleys and Harley riders on this forum. In 30+ years of riding Japanese and Italian bikes I have never experienced any hostility from Harley riders. Just this past Sunday I was stopped at a rest area and two Harley guys came over to ask a bunch of questions about and compliment my Ducati. Nothing could be further from a Harley than that bike. I must have passed a thousand Harleys on this busy weekend at a great motorcycle destination. Probably 90% of the bikes I saw were American iron. No issues and plenty of friendly waves. Sure I had to pass a few slow groups on the twisty roads, but I just waited for a safe opening. I don't fault cruisers for not being able to maintain a sporty pace. It's just a different style of riding.

[Penderic]

What?! We're talking now about those smug, oblivious, and really SLOW jerks, up ahead, slowing down traffic and spoiling my adventure?!

Well, when I catch up to the buggas, don't really matter what their riding, I like to imagine ....

[Sheepdog]

Again, I get the Grrrr. But, I also understand there is more than me on the road. Now a days if I want to just cruise a road with the least traffic, I pick a day with the least traffic on that road.

Tom

Tom, I'm not trying to alienate you and I appreciate your restraint throughout this discussion...BUT: why on earth would a motorcyclist choose a beautiful and remote place to ride and then organize 30 or 40 of their friends to do it with them? It just seems counter to the whole idea of "getting away." Hey...I tried it once with a group of co-workers in East Tennessee. By the time the day was done, two riders were in the hospital and I depleted nearly my entire toolkit of tie-wire and zip-ties fixing Sportsters that had vibrated loose one critical assembly or another (they were both pre-rubber mount, Kev). That was enough for me...group rides are now 3 or less with people I trust.

[Lannis]

There sure is a lot of animosity directed at Harleys and Harley riders on this forum. In 30+ years of riding Japanese and Italian bikes I have never experienced any hostility from Harley riders. Just this past Sunday I was stopped at a rest area and two Harley guys came over to ask a bunch of questions about and compliment my Ducati. Nothing could be further from a Harley than that bike. I must have passed a thousand Harleys on this busy weekend at a great motorcycle destination. Probably 90% of the bikes I saw were American iron. No issues and plenty of friendly waves. Sure I had to pass a few slow groups on the twisty roads, but I just waited for a safe opening. I don't fault cruisers for not being able to maintain a sporty pace. It's just a different style of riding.

Two things - I really think (as I said above) that the word "Harley" is being used like the word "Kleenex" - to indicate any kind of cruiser, so I don't believe that anyone is really slamming Harley-Davidson as a "brand", but don't like "Slow Cruisers" as a road barrier.

Second, it's not just a "style of riding" that's generally objected to.   It's common disregard for manners and civility on the highway.   People can ride slow all they want to, but when big packs of them knowingly and uncaringly mess up OTHER PEOPLE's riding experience, that's not very good in anyone's book.

I have a particular concern about losing my "situational awareness" as I get older.   I don't want to be like my great-uncle, shuffling into a busy room, then standing right there in the doorway peering around, blocking everyone else's entrance and exit, and either not knowing or caring that other people would like to move too ....

Lannis

[Testarossa]

This isn't purely a motorcycling phenomenon. I see a general degradation of spatial politesse among certain demographics, amounting to a kind of entitlement or arrogance: people who feel they have the right to stop and chat at the entrance (or exit!) of escalators, skiers and snowboarders who think it's proper to stop to socialize in the middle of a narrow trail, folks compelled to gossip with the barista while eight or ten coffee-deprived customers fume in line. The willingness of parents to complete the toilet-training process into adolescence is fading. In my winter job I'm sorry to report that many wealthy visitors to ski resorts are oblivious to traffic patterns.

[HDGoose]

How many riders have verified their speedometers? I know that my 97 Cali 1100i reads 8 MPH fast, and my Harley reads 5 MPH fast. So if I'm doing the speed limit as indicated on my speedo, I am actually running slower than posted.

Now, on a group ride, with newer riders, less experienced (however one wants to say it), I have ridden ahead to show them the lines through corners, etc.

Then there are folks who feel that every road is their personal race track and expect all others to get out of their way.

There are time when I can ride faster than others, and I make a decision then. Sometimes I want to look at something other than the apex.

So sorry that everyone else is not on your same schedule and knew to get the hell outta your way.

[Nic in Western NYS]

Had an interesting discussion with a couple of riders involved in a large group ride . Both were relative newcomers to motorbiking , and admitted to not being very good riders . I asked them if they had taken a beginners course , both stated that "no , we are learning to ride in the group , and felt safer surrounded by other more "experienced" riders . Honestly , it seems that some times we are dealing with the same herd mentality that elephants display when a young unsteady calf is trying to keep up with the herd . Instead of one or two females staying behind to protect the baby , the entire herd stays with the "beginner" .

 Dusty

That never would have crossed my mind.  Very interesting if true.  I'm assuming the belief is incorrect that surrounding the novice is protective.  But by putting your finger on the belief, there might be a better solution to offer.  The 'one or two adults staying behind to protect and teach the youngster' model would seem a lot safer than to embed the novice in the middle of a pack where any contact could result in a big problem, let alone slowing down the whole group.

[LowRyter]

How many riders have verified their speedometers? I know that my 97 Cali 1100i reads 8 MPH fast, and my Harley reads 5 MPH fast. So if I'm doing the speed limit as indicated on my speedo, I am actually running slower than posted.

Now, on a group ride, with newer riders, less experienced (however one wants to say it), I have ridden ahead to show them the lines through corners, etc.

Then there are folks who feel that every road is their personal race track and expect all others to get out of their way.

There are time when I can ride faster than others, and I make a decision then. Sometimes I want to look at something other than the apex.

So sorry that everyone else is not on your same schedule and knew to get the hell outta your way.

it's not about getting the hell outta the way.  It's blocking the road so those of us that want to pass them and get in & around these groups.  They can at least leave enough room so that cars and bikes and pass a few of them at a time.

I know when I ride with sports riders, the Spine Frame Raid, Ozark RAT Raid, there are maybe 18 riders but we leave room and break in smaller groups for faster and slower riders.

otherwise, they need to get a parade permit!

[oldbike54]

That never would have crossed my mind.  Very interesting if true.  I'm assuming the belief is incorrect that surrounding the novice is protective.  But by putting your finger on the belief, there might be a better solution to offer.  The 'one or two adults staying behind to protect and teach the youngster' model would seem a lot safer than to embed the novice in the middle of a pack where any contact could result in a big problem, let alone slowing down the whole group.

 Nic , yes it is an incorrect belief , but very common . I've actually posed the question more than once and received similar answers . There is a social aspect to motorcycling , even for those of us who only ride alone or in small groups , W/O the social aspect we would not have Guzzi gatherings. Probably some peer pressure involved here also , be a part of the pack , or be cast
out . My only problem with slower riders is when they bunch up preventing other road users to pass . Maybe some education is needed , dunno .

 Dusty

[atavar]

+1
Go slow if you want to.  Nobody has a problem with that.  Just don't try and prevent anyone else from getting past you.

I can imagine your long line of cruisers would be plenty upset if they came up behind a cavalcade of 40 hay wagons travelling 15mph nose to tail and crowding the center-line.  I bet your group would not passively hang behind them for miles.

[fanattic]

I rode along with a Harley group one time several years back, but I was on my '66 Beemer. Being a new guy, invited by a friend with a Harley and not having a Harley myself, I politely lined up at the very back of the group. Was ok for a while, but geez, it's like following a bunch of soccer moms in their suvs, chatting on cell phones.
Part of the ride took us down Rt77 through the Catoctin mountains where there are several sets of nice twisties. Although I didn't try, it would have been a simple effort to pass them all, in the turns, on my antique bike with skinny period correct tires. Of course the old Beemers are reasonably nimble in the turns, but one can't lean too far or you start dragging bits. Usually my boot is the first to hit.
It does seem to be the American way though. Cars or bikes, most people here like big, obnoxious land yachts, and if they go fast at all, it will be in a straight line. But give them a set of turns? Oh no! That takes concentration and skill. For me, turns are what driving and riding are really all about. Guess that's why I was attracted to Guzzis.

[atavar]

I have ridden with quite a few groups, and perhaps the best was a veterans group. They would put a pair of leaders out and the new guys went right behind them to set the pace.  Part of the leaders job was to pay attention and not pull the new guys too hard.
The other thing they did was to ride in groups of six with a couple car lengths between groups.  That seemed to work well and faster drivers seemed willing to filter through a group or two at a time without creating drama. 
They also had a pre-ride briefing explaining all this before the ride started so everyone was on the same page.
Some of the sportier riders waited at the departure point and gave the group a 20 minute head start.  I suppose that is another way of doing things.
It's all in how you ride, and exhibiting respect and courtesy in the ride goes a long way toward reducing stress.

[Bill N]

I really got a laugh from the posts that said things like, "Those that impede traffic would get a ticket from where I come from."
 I'd like to see how many tickets in the USA have been issued to riders in a herd that impeded traffic on a mountain road. Others suggested pulling over. Many favorite mountain roads I frequent don't have pull offs for many, many miles. So you just have to suck it up. Swearing seems to help. Reading this rant thread helps too. LOL
Bill

[atavar]

Agreed, sharing the road can sometimes be a challenge. 

[oldbike54]

 Well... there is the story my trooper buddy tells where another trooper working up by Miami Oklahoma pulled a large group of cruiser bikes over and asked them if they were a funeral procession, explaining that only funeral processions traveled that slow 

 Dusty

[Penderic]

Appropriate sticker .....

 Honk Honk

[Penderic]

And also, some seasoned riders with their new bikes, (not yet paid for), cant go fast because the wind resistance of their dealer-added accessories will surely overtax their modern drive train. Flags and mirrors can be real threats to your new warranty these days. 


Looking for trouble.

[Testarossa]

And also, some seasoned riders with their new bikes, (not yet paid for), cant go fast because the wind resistance of their dealer-added accessories will surely overtax their modern drive train. Flags and mirrors can be real threats to your new warranty these days.

Question is whether he ever looks in those mirrors.

[Lannis]

Question is whether he ever looks in those mirrors.

Sort of like Lone Watie's piece of rock candy.   It's not for eatin', it's for looking through .....

And those mirrors aren't for looking into .... !

Lannis

[charlie b]

Since the other half of my traveling is pulling a largish RV....this isn't just some motorcycle groups.  It applies to car drivers, RV's, and just about any other conveyance.

And not just driving but in everyday life.

This isn't purely a motorcycling phenomenon. I see a general degradation of spatial politesse among certain demographics, amounting to a kind of entitlement or arrogance: people who feel they have the right to stop and chat at the entrance (or exit!) of escalators, skiers and snowboarders who think it's proper to stop to socialize in the middle of a narrow trail, folks compelled to gossip with the barista while eight or ten coffee-deprived customers fume in line. The willingness of parents to complete the toilet-training process into adolescence is fading. In my winter job I'm sorry to report that many wealthy visitors to ski resorts are oblivious to traffic patterns.

My mother is one of those oblivious to others around her.  Don't know why, she just is.  When asked about it she is clueless, as in she didn't notice anyone around her.  My wife's grandmother was not clueless, just a b****.  Her attitude was that she had just as much right to block traffic (or a line or anything else) as you did to be there and she'd take as much time as she wanted.

I see it in people of all ages, races, wealth, areas of country.

Then, we end up in someplace like Nashville, during rush hour, in the dark and rain, pulling a trailer and needing to cross 4 lanes of bumper to bumper traffic to make an exit.  Turn on a turn signal and the drivers politely leave me a nice gap to move over, sometimes even blocking a lane so I can move in there.

And, yes, I've had groups of HD riders wave me to pass them and give me space when needed.

[Bulldog9]

  Yeah, I hate to come up on any group.  I've mostly ridden alone or in small groups of 2-3 riders who ride as well or better than I do.  Over the years I have come on Groups of Hardleys, or Goldwings with Trailers . Sometimes if on a 2 lane road, if I come up on one  I will 'flash to pass'  and watch what the rear guys do. Some ignore and you can see the group tighten, some will create a gap for you, wave you on or make it clear it is cool to pass.

If it is one that would take more than 2-3 series of passing and entering the group, I wont even bother and will divert, or pull off for lunch. It's just not worth the danger of intruding in a large group. I HATE getting caught up in a gaggle of bikes.... You havent lived until you get stuck on the Blue Ridge Parkway behind 30 Goldwings..... I dont know about anyone else, but I DONT like to ride and dont enjoy clogged roads. I'd rather do something else....

[Tom H]

I appear to have stepped in a pile of doo doo that I did not intend to.

I am not the best typist to convey my thoughts. I did mention this already.

I posted a reply message as to what I was trying to say. But since then I have been quoted. So.. Here I go Again! Hell with typos!

My "Group" experiance was in the late '70- early '90. Back in the day 55mph was the national speed limit except for a very few states.

The "groups" I rode with varied form Independents to Outlaws. Rode My Eldo through those years for the most part. If not Eldo it was Ambo on ocasion (ambo was too slow to keep up for the most part).

On the highway we rode in pretty tight groups. In the canyons the groups were a bit loose as some wanted to go fast and some relatively slow. In either case we never doddled along. We were not the fastest in the twisties, but we were going down the highway at 70mph+. Now 70+ seems slow as the limit in my state is again 65mph.

Have you ever run a '72 eldo police at 70 on a Cali freeway??? With the grooves?? Never thought a bike could not wiggle down the grooves until my '04 EV.

So... In the canyons, if someone wanted to pass, we were happy to let them by. Just come up to the last bike, let that bike know your there, and we were glad to let you "CAREFULLY' work your way through giving room as needed. My example was an umm..umm. *hole that wouldn't wait for a  place to pass. He had to do it where ever he wanted to . Straits or curves. Scared most of us as we did not know he was coming. UMM...While your riding solo through your favorite twisties at your best speed. Would YOU rather have a faster bike come up and let you know they want by?? Or have that bike blast past you in a corner an inch off your bar MGP style and nearly wreck you??

So on the highway. We usually ran 65-70mph side by side. We had rode with each other for some time. We pretty much knew what the rider up front was thinking. We ALL watched the road ahead, to the side and behind.
When a car/bike needed to move through our group for an offramp or the like, we gave room. Maybe back in those days people gave a **it about other people. Maybe this is different now with group riders. I have not rode in a "group" since the '90's to know. Maybe the "groups" don't give a **it anymore???

So I ride the freeways mainly solo now. I DO hate it when some *hole is running the crud pool lane at an excessively slow speed. I also hate it when there is a road block of cars in all lanes that just won't run at least the 65mph sped limit. With my EV, 75mph is easy, my Eldo 70 is about cruising tops. If I'm not going fast enough i get out of the way. Why can't others do the same and let the traffic flow.

I don't know how cars can do it on the freeways out here????? Guess the Caddie or Lexus or the what have you has too many dodads to let you remember your only doing 5-10mph.

Don't get me started at how people get tickets for driving too slow!!! Some have said it happens. Apperntley not here in Cali on the freeways!!!!!!!

So if you think,at least in the 55 days, 70-75 on the highway was "parade" riding?
Maybe you need to think again.

Just my attempt at calrifing myself. Take it as you wish.
Tom

[Orange Guzzi]

Stop worrying, it will not be long until they are gone.  There sales and profits are still plummeting according to yesterdays MPN Dealer magazine. 

[Lannis]

Stop worrying, it will not be long until they are gone.  There sales and profits are still plummeting according to yesterdays MPN Dealer magazine.

Folks (including me unfortunately) have been predicting the demise of The Motor Company for years now.    With HD shops carrying hundreds of low-mileage trade-ins in the back warehouse, and the 2003 "Centennial" rush past, they can't keep selling 200K new bikes every year.   Well, that's what we said back in 2005, anyhow .... It's a force of nature, I'm afraid, not subject to normal market and economic forces ...

Lannis

[Sheepdog]

I rode along with a Harley group one time several years back, but I was on my '66 Beemer. Being a new guy, invited by a friend with a Harley and not having a Harley myself, I politely lined up at the very back of the group. Was ok for a while, but geez, it's like following a bunch of soccer moms in their suvs, chatting on cell phones.
Part of the ride took us down Rt77 through the Catoctin mountains where there are several sets of nice twisties. Although I didn't try, it would have been a simple effort to pass them all, in the turns, on my antique bike with skinny period correct tires. Of course the old Beemers are reasonably nimble in the turns, but one can't lean too far or you start dragging bits. Usually my boot is the first to hit.

I had an experience very much like this in Albuquerque, circa 1998. I was invited to make a ride with some friends to Madrid for a green chile cheeseburger at the Mineshaft. They all rode late model (and heavily customized) Harleys; I rode a '60 BMW R60. When I arrived, they all had a big (preplanned) laugh and asked, "will it go 55?" "Sure," said I. We took a route through the Sandia Mountains (the Turquoise Trail) and I dusted them all as soon as we cleared town. Its not that I was going particularly fast, but all those HDs dragged their undercarriage badly and those guys HAD to slow down for curves. But the real insult came at the restaurant...that old Rubber Cow got ALL of the attention...

[LowRyter]

Charlie makes a good point about pulling an RV and trailering in general. 

When I pull my RV I seldom go over 65 and like to travel 5 under the limit.  I am quite careful to allow folks to pass and when I need to pass someone I try to time it so I don't block traffic for an extended amount of time.  Hey, it's really annoying to see one semi trying to pass another and they block BOTH lanes for 5 minutes. 

On the other hand, I feel much safer when I am riding a motorcycle and passing all the traffic in front of me.  It's much safer just to look ahead and go rather than riding with traffic and being concerned about being run over in all directions.  Unfortunately, my city started to go big on speed zones about 15 years ago and I've had to "learn" to keep my cool when I ride.  It's still not as safe as going faster.