V-twin (Guzzi) vs Flat-twin (BMW)

[oldbike54]

 I do agree .

 Dusty

[jkristjan]

Well BMW does not do air-cooled and simplistic bikes like the good old R75 any more, does it? For me, my Guzzi V9 is indeed just the closest modern reincarnation of the R75 that I can get. The cylinders being bent is a small difference, the feel of the V9 is still quite similar to that of the URAL (a soviet R75 replica) that I used to ride back in the day. It all started with BMW R32 and for me they are just one family of bikes. If you're bothered by the seemingly "missing link", take a look at the Victoria v35 Bergmeister (https://www.kr26.de/images/xl/2015-08-01-4894-victoria-v35-bergmeister-hoske-tank.jpg) and you'll see the link is actually there. It doesn't matter how do you call it or who manufactures it, it's still the same family of bikes and nowadays only URAL and Guzzi remain as active manufacturers.

PS. This may not make sense to the Griso and other more powerful CARC bike riders. I'm only talking about the current V7/V9, they seem to have maintained what was once started by the R32.

[Kev m]

PS. This may not make sense to the Griso and other more powerful CARC bike riders. I'm only talking about the current V7/V9, they seem to have maintained what was once started by the R32.

...And that's what lead me to the Guzzi smallblocks (from a CARC) four years ago...

[LowRyter]

[twhitaker]

Hey! Is that a hemy?

[Lannis]

Now you've ruined the "90 deg engine primary balance" vision I had.   

That thing looks like it would vibrate right out of the frame.   Now I'm back to where I was ....

Lannis

[Lannis]

C'mon Lannis it wasn't that bad was it ? I've seen worse on this forum from down here, but yeah, it was a bit sarcastic, but harmless.

I guess so. 

Perhaps I was responding partly to so many modern "special snowflakes" in the world today who can't STAND it if someone posts a comment that indicates that someone has an opinion different from theirs, or who thinks a bike is ugly that they consider beautiful, or doesn't join in the hymns and eulogies when a rock star dies, or something ....

It CAN be a good thread even if a couple people don't agree on what constitutes "character" in a motorcycle ....

Lannis

[LowRyter]

Now you've ruined the "90 deg engine primary balance" vision I had.   

That thing looks like it would vibrate right out of the frame.   Now I'm back to where I was ....

Lannis

cry baby

[Lannis]

cry baby

... and it always happens JUST when you think you've got it ....

[charlie b]

I tried to figure out why I like my Goose one time.  One reason I keep it is because I can fix just about anything on it.  Good thing too cause approaching 100k miles it has parts that need replacing more often.

Soul?  Don't believe in it.  Yes, the T5 feels 'raw', but, just because it shakes and rattles a lot.  I don't consider that a "good" thing.

I like the attention it gets, but, most of that attention is from the ammo cans on the back of the bike, not because it is a goose.  :)

Were I to get another bike what would it be?  The only ones that have tempted me are the beemer RT's.

[Triple Jim]

Huzo, here's a more technical forum discussion on engine balance.  If you like the simplistic one were having here, you'll love this:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=366049

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Make mine a 350 cc, 72 degree, Heron head, v-twin.  There's really nothing else like it from any other manufacturer before or since. Smooth, torquey, efficient, easy to maintain, light-weight, fantastic handling and brakes.

[NC Steve]

[/URL]

[Triple Jim]

And a fun video that explains it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvpFcSPtDV0

[JJ]

Speaking of cool Beemers....have a look at this new beauty! :1:

[sturgeon]

water boxer

Yep, that's pretty much what my forum sig says

[JJ]

Yep, that's pretty much what my forum sig says

"Water Boxer" - - too funny!   Maybe we could rename it...."The Hydro Boxer" also!!

[drlapo]

I'm still riding my "new" 1985 R80
The RnineT racer looks terrific

[JJ]

I'm still riding my "new" 1985 R80
The RnineT racer looks terrific

The '85 BMW R80 is a fine motorcycle, any way you look at it (IMHO) :1:

[RANDM]

NC Steve,
Now you've done ut.
That BMWobbleyou Gif is no good - ut's got a bent Krank -
Just look at the 1/4  timing gear go! You bugger your Timing
Chain and all sorts of "things" if you don't turn it off ASAP!

I know I'm strange but I don't agree about boxer's not liking
low rev's. Now the fueling is better my 1150R will happily
putt around down to 1500rupums in 3rd and pull away
smoothly, wear as my Daughter's Monster didn't like
anything under 2,900-3,000.

Surprised no-ones mentioned a certain 120* twin with
offset pins that runs dead smooth, won races for 20 yrs
And yet has never been used on the road????

Maurie.

[rboe]

My screen isn't shaking so those motors are running dang smooth.... 

[Huzo]

Huzo, here's a more technical forum discussion on engine balance.  If you like the simplistic one were having here, you'll love this:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=366049

I may as well just give up now,'cos I've got no hope...

[Nic in Western NYS]

I know I'm strange but I don't agree about boxer's not liking
low rev's. Now the fueling is better my 1150R will happily
putt around down to 1500rupums in 3rd and pull away
smoothly, wear as my Daughter's Monster didn't like
anything under 2,900-3,000.

Maurie.

Same here.  Like your daughter's Monster, my ST2's 944cc 2 valve didn't like low revs.  The ST4s 996 4 valve likes all revs. 
My old RT pulled like a train from 1800 or so but was happier between 3000-5500 IIRC.

[LowRyter]

Riding twins vs 4 cyl bikes, I've found the torque curve to be broader on 4 cyl engines.

I know that runs counter to what most people believe.  My 4 cyl Suzuki can idle off clutch and pull solidly to 11k rpms and pick up power 4k when the jets kick in.

Twins seem to be more limited in torque range.  Cruisers have low end power and top out at 5k.  Guzzi seem to kick in at 4k-6k.  Duc seem to get "snatchy" unless revved. 

[RANDM]

I don't think either has much in the way of Flywheel to help,
but with the Boxer it shouldn't matter as much with a power
Pulse every 360 and the good balance of a flat twin. A mates
old R80 from a cold start will sit idling at around 850rpm and
be completely still on his main stand on a concrete floor,mirrors
clear. Put a hand on his tank and there's the vague hint from the
offset crank but it's like a relaxed pulse.

Interestingly the monster (800) was smoother than the 1150
Once it was in it's happy place. Puzzles me a bit when you guys
talk about your Gooses vibration, I was thinking they should
balance up as well as the Dukes - or am I reading too much
Old Hands good naturedly cussing their Motorbicycle.

Maurie.

[Triple Jim]

Riding twins vs 4 cyl bikes, I've found the torque curve to be broader on 4 cyl engines.

I believe it's much more a matter of overall engine design than the number of cylinders the engine has.  There are 2 and 4 cylinder engines with flat torque curves, and also 2 and 4 cylinder engines with peaky torque curves.

[sturgeon]

"Water Boxer" - - too funny!   Maybe we could rename it...."The Hydro Boxer" also!!

My personal preference for mine is `shower-head`.

[LowRyter]

I believe it's much more a matter of overall engine design than the number of cylinders the engine has.  There are 2 and 4 cylinder engines with flat torque curves, and also 2 and 4 cylinder engines with peaky torque curves.

I must disagree.  I've ridden twins that pull down low but peter out when revved over 5k.

Those that have good mid range but never have a top end kick.

And the others that are "snatchy" and lug but have a top end kick.

I've not ridden one that has a broad power range and top end power like a 4 cyl.

Wait,  I can think of one possible exception and the is the KTM RC8.  I never got to rev it but it was salty on the bottom and mid.  So I guess that demonstrates your point Jim.  I'd forgotten about that one.

[Carlo DeSantis]

My personal preference for mine is `shower-head`.

What I read most often on Beemer forums is "Wet Head."  My R1200R is a "Cam Head."  Before that, the twins were Hex Head, Oil Head, and Air Head.

If anyone cares :)

Best,

Carlo

[rboe]

My CB1100 pulls strongly from idle, has a very flat torque curve and does have a personality change in the upper revs. My buddies little GXR600 is all top end and really becomes a wild beast when his secondary injectors kick in. In the real world on public streets, not all that useful. The CB on the other hand is very easy to ride, just does not have the corning clearance for real spirited riding (which fits my riding style just fine).

With the new maps, the Griso finally has some low rpm torque and good manners below 3K (but still a bit snatchy) and the wonderful locomotive power at speed, with passing power on tap that the CB has to wait for.

That said, I wish Honda would come out with a modern GB500/GB650 as singles have their own personality that is fun to play with.