"Slime" in the front tire created an imbalance where there was none before

[brider]

Before my CT-Maine-and-back trip this last weekend (forgot to mention in my other posting that I got passed by a T3 going 75-80 mph while I was doing 70; I saw him coming in my rearview and got a good look as he passed, bone-frickin' stock and kind of ratty-looking), I quickly loaded 8 oz of Slime into the front tire based on some discussions in this forum. I couldn't get any onto the rear tire because of some sort of obstruction internally at the base of the stem; air goes in fine, but I probed it with a short section of bicycle spoke and there's definitely a restriction that wouldn't let gobs of Slime thru.

Anyway, Where the front tire was as smooth-running as glass before, now there is a significant imbalance hovering around the 70 mph mark, varying +/- 3 mph. When occurring, I can look straight down my fork tubes and see the front axle bobbing wildly.

I thought Slime was supposed to act like a balancer, or at least cause no IMbalance?

[ken farr]

I don't have any experience with Slime.  I use Ride-On, which is more viscous than slime and "attaches" to the inside center tread portion of the tire.
I am running tubeless, so maybe the tube-Slime combo isn't a good one ???

I am sure others with more knowledge-experience will chime in shortly.


kjf

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Slime does not act as a balancer, only a sealant.

A customer recently asked me to "install" some in his Ambassador's tubes, but after reading all of the information on the Slime website, it seemed that the Slime tube sealant was only supposed to be used in the event of a puncture of the tube to seal it, not as a preventative measure. I may have misinterpreted what I read, but I was unwilling to take the chance, so ultimately chose to use the Ride-On product instead.

Ride-On seems to work very well as a balancer, no experience (thankfully) so far as to it's sealing abilities. Very much like PJ1 Balance Plus that I used for years, before they stopped making it. Just a different color, but otherwise much the same.   

[Triple Jim]

Several guys here use Slime as a flat preventer, including Lannis, if I remember correctly.  Despite that, I've been hesitant to put it in for that purpose, fearing imbalance.  So I carry a bottle of it in my tail bag instead.

I appreciate the posts about Ride-On.  I'll  look into that stuff.

[brider]

Slime does not act as a balancer, only a sealant.

That may be it. I was persuaded by some emphatic postings I found on this site via a Search, but without re-researching those posts, maybe I interpreted them wrong.

Added to the list of winter projects: remove tubes in both tires and replace with Ride-On installed.

[Triple Jim]

I just watched a Ride-On video that shows it depositing in only the center couple inches of the tire circumference.  Of course the argument is that's where you'll get punctures, but I argue that because of curves in the road, it's possible to get a puncture outside of that narrow band.  I suppose it's a matter of the much greater likelihood of a puncture in the center than farther out in the tread.

I've gotten very few flats with motorcycle tires.  Anyone have enough experience to verify that 99% of punctures occur near the center of the tread?

Here's the Ride-On video:  https://youtu.be/V2eTQk0Oarg

[Groover]

I have Ride-On in my tires, but I also can't report back on puncture protection. As far as balancing goes, it works very well. No more balancing weights needed, and I also haven't experienced the buildup they say that could happen when parked for a long that would smooth out after a couple of miles. Seems to hold up well as far as that goes, or it spreads out the way it should by the time I get out of my neighborhood and up to speed.

I also wonder about having only that center strip protected.. I'll just have to be sure to catch those nails exactly in the middle 

[wavedog]

I put some slime in both tires of my Jackal then rode it 4000 miles in a month and no imbalance. Speeds from slow to over a hundred. Yes I did state that on a public forum.

[steven c]

 All I know is when a bottle of Slime opens in your top case after 50 miles of off road riding on you KLR650 you get real grumpy.
 I put Ride-On in the tires of my Eldorado and the imbalance I had went away.

[elvisboy77]

On their website they say only to use it preventatively for "off road vehicles" whatever they mean by that.

There are also two doses, one for under 45 MPH and one (much less!) for over 45 MPH, like 0.065 times the under dose.  Wonder if you put in too much?

It also says it cannot be used for balancing.

Me, I would rather fix the tire, I used some fix a flat on my 3 MPH lawn tractor but that is about it.

I hope you get it resolved,

[Triple Jim]

Me, I would rather fix the tire, I used some fix a flat on my 3 MPH lawn tractor but that is about it.

Me too, but not on the road if I can help it.  The hope is that if I get a flat, I can put the Slime in, reinflate the tire with the tiny pump I carry, finish my ride/trip, and repair or replace the tire when I get home.

[Tom]

Did you use the tube formula?

[TobyJug]

I've used Ride-On in the past (and will do again) and the thing that decided me on using it as opposed to Slime was that Slime is only supposed to last 2 years.  Bear in mind that, up here in the frozen north, we only get to ride for about half a year.

I'm guessing that the wrong amount was put in to make it unbalanced.

[brider]

Did you use the tube formula?

I used the tube formula, and it listed 8 oz for a motorcycle tire (with an image of an off-road tire).

I did not have a flat or a leak, but the current imbalance of my rear tire at around 40 mph caused me to search the discussions on this site for "tire balance" or "tire sealant" or something like that. I did not previously use the tube-type Slime specifically because of the caution against high-speed use, but one of the emphatic contributors I read said, and I think these are the exact words, "...that's just lawyer-talk." I truly believe that it may have been lawyer-talk, but I also think 8 oz was too much, and the lawyer-talk may have been a caution against causing an imbalance condition, like mine.

I had a rear go flat at 70 mph at night, in the far left lane of 4 lanes a few years ago. Never been so scared in my life, and the nail was dead-center. I figure if I'd had a sealer in the tire, I may have noticed the slow leak at a gas fill-up, where I always look at the tires, and it may not have happened suddenly on the highway.

My effort now is to remove both tubes and replace with tubes I can add Ride-on into. Not grooving on my one experience with Slime.

[Huzo]

Can someone tell me how a slime substance can work as a balancing agent even at the best of times ? If the wheel is not concentric then the slime would be thrown centrifugally to the point of greatest velocity which is where the radius is greatest and that would only make things worse, and if the wheel is true (concentric), but the centre of mass is off (outa balance), then what force is at play to make the slime migrate to where it's needed, in this case diametrically opposite to the heaviest side. Now just before my detractors (yes there are some), draw their swords, I'm not disagreeing with anyone, or taking aim at established sources of knowlege, but can someone just EXPLAIN what the theory is ? 'Cos from here it sounds like a total toss. I think those who believe in it do so 'cos someone they believe in does as well. Sorry if this is not appropriate for this thread, if so I'll re name it or whatever you have to do. I know there's some engineers out there that'll put me straight. Huzo.

[Huzo]

Oh and BTW, I'm aware that there were some statements on the post saying that the stuff isn't there as a balancer but also there are people who believe it works.

[tris]

 :1: re the balancing

It also puzzles me as to why when you park the vehicle up for "a period of time" the gunge doesn't migrate to the bottom of the tyre making it even more out of balance until it does its "magic" and migrates back when you start riding

[v7john]

I use Oko sealant in my tyres which is probably similar to Slime. The makers are very clear that you should balance the wheel before adding the sealant. I assumed this was because the sealant would make the balance worse (as Huzo describes) and not just because you can't do it with some goo running about inside. They also say that, after putting the stuff in, you must ride slowly for a few miles to distribute it around the tyre and not just ride off at speed. I have also assumed that parking up for long periods needs the same treatment. It's not an issue for me as I always start off conservatively with a cold engine. They also have a chart showing sealant amounts for specific tyre sizes. My guess is that too much was put in.

[Sheepdog]

Slime is a great way to make a temporary repair of a small puncture without having to remove the wheel. However, a permanent repair should be sought as soon as possible...

[brider]

I'm an engineer, and I, too have wondered how a semi-liquid substance can act as a "balancer" in a spinning tire. The physics just don't work in an intuitive sense, but maybe they do in a physical sense. If the stuff remains semi-liquid, then I can understand the need to balance before adding it, because it should distribute evenly about the inner circumference, adding a net effect of zero. But if the inner circumference were dead concentric, but the center of mass were off-center (an un-balanced wheel/tire combo), as Huzo said, how does the liquid migrate to the right spot to offset the off-center mass?

Doesn't make sense, BUT, the testimonials for Ride-on all say it works. However, I'm going to get the wheels balanced before adding it, just so I KNOW I have a balanced starting point.

[Triple Jim]

Can someone tell me how a slime substance can work as a balancing agent even at the best of times?

I have wondered about this for years.  I just check an engineering site and learned that it can work because the tire on a vehicle is free to move a little vertically when it's out of balance.  Beads or goo won't work on a tire balancing machine, because it holds the wheel rigidly.  Here is the explanation:

http://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/6015/how-do-tire-balancing-beads-work

[Huzo]

I'm an engineer, and I, too have wondered how a semi-liquid substance can act as a "balancer" in a spinning tire. The physics just don't work in an intuitive sense, but maybe they do in a physical sense. If the stuff remains semi-liquid, then I can understand the need to balance before adding it, because it should distribute evenly about the inner circumference, adding a net effect of zero. But if the inner circumference were dead concentric, but the center of mass were off-center (an un-balanced wheel/tire combo), as Huzo said, how does the liquid migrate to the right spot to offset the off-center mass?

Doesn't make sense, BUT, the testimonials for Ride-on all say it works. However, I'm going to get the wheels balanced before adding it, just so I KNOW I have a balanced starting point.

The only thing I could accept birder, is that if your tyre was unbalanced by say 20 grams, increasing the total mass evenly, will make the 20 grams less significant due to the greater inertia of the system. But jeez that sounds a bit lame. Also I'm suggesting that your wheel can be perfectly balanced statically, but if it's not concentric then it'll thrash like hell, (technical term). I still reckon it's BS...

[Huzo]

I just read the explanation about the beads and can see the point the article makes to a degree but to me it's a bit hazy still. The beads will never balance an eccentric wheel even if it's centre of mass is correct, due to the compressing and releasing of the forks each rotation. (I think !!!)

[Sheepdog]

I can imagine a liquid might achieve balance at a steady speed...but it seems like the balance would be grossly compromised any time the bike accelerated or braked. I could tolerate such a condition if it got me home after I suffered a tire puncture, but not all the time. Better to balance the old-fashioned way and (carefully) stash a 12V compressor and an 8 ounce bottle of Slime in your saddlebag. Another suggestion...London messenger riders have stated that the highest percentage of punctures were eliminated by the use of an inexpensive, simple device: a front mud flap.

[Huzo]

I can imagine a liquid might achieve balance at a steady speed.....London messenger riders have stated that the highest percentage of punctures were eliminated by the use of an inexpensive, simple device: a front mud flap.

The first one sheepdog, I can't accept and unable to understand. The second one I accept but unable to understand... Can you elaborate ?

[Sheepdog]

1) if the wheel is out of round, the liquid will fill in the part of the tire that is furthest from the axle under centrifical force. If the liquid is the correct density (or close), it might balance the wheel at a steady speed.


2)  ever notice that most of your flats are on the rear tire? This happens because the front wheel kicks up road debris and the rear tire goes right through this elevated and sometimes pointy stuff. The mudflap keeps all those nails/cotter pins/deck screws low or out to the sides, drastically reducing your chance of a puncture. The $11 model I use is visible in this photo:

[Huzo]

1) if the wheel is out of round, the liquid will fill in the part of the tire that is furthest from the axle under centrifical force. If the liquid is the correct density (or close), it might balance the wheel at a steady speed.


2)  ever notice that most of your flats are on the rear tire? This happens because the front wheel kicks up road debris and the rear tire goes right through this elevated and sometimes pointy stuff. The mudflap keeps all those nails/cotter pins/deck screws low or out to the sides, drastically reducing your chance of a puncture. The $11 model I use is visible in this photo:

#2, no problem and thankyou, beautiful bike BTW. #1 for me is an issue as you explain it, because a migration of slime to the area furtest from centre will only increase the mass at that point. Do you perceive a problem there? That would be a problem on an eccentric wheel wheter or not it was mass balanced, I honestly do not get it and I don't know why.

[Sheepdog]

...point taken re balancing and thank you.

[leafman60]

I have used Slime for years as a puncture preventive measure and I have never had tire imbalance issues with it.  On several occasions the Slime has sealed an unexpected puncture.

The label on the bottle is probably tempered by legal advice to hedge against damage liability.

I use it in several bikes with tube-type tires. I typically change the tube with every other tire change in regular use so I get a new dose of Slime with every other new tire.

When I mount a new tire, I balance the tire before adding new Slime.  However, if I am re-using a relatively new tube that already has been dosed with Slime, I do not pre-balance the tire - and I have not felt imbalance in the tire with subsequent running.

I think it needs to be changed to keep its fluidity. I have seen a similar fluid that solidified inside a tire and caused balance problems because it had been allowed to remain unchanged for over 5 years.

The Ride On product appears to me to be very similar to Slime.  Years ago, I used a similar product called Balance Plus.  They advertised the product as both a balancer and a sealer.

[Huzo]

I reckon you're on the money leafman. I'd say that slime won't put a true, balanced wheel, out of balance but my suggestion is that it won't put an untrue out of balance one back in balance. Different thing.