Sidecar for my EV?

[Dean Rose]

Thinking on it any ideas?

Dean

[John A]

I used a Velorex 562. It is too small for an EV and kept breaking the sidecar frame so I built my own and just used the body. I made it so that all the adjustments are made at the wheel, toe, lean etc. I don't recommend doing it that way but I didn't have a clue about sidecars. I also started with the idea to haul a 300 lb electric wheelchair but scrapped that and ended up with an overbuilt frame. It handles very well now after some trial and error settings. Talk to the WI rep, Chris Collins, who has a lot of experience with it. I am glad I increased the output of the engine with Mike Rich cylinder heads, cam and Sport throttle bodies. rear tires don't last, maybe 2000 miles but I tend to have a heavy throttle hand. Left turns from a stop unloads the rear tire and I can roll smoke off it. Sidecar gears from Charlie, Antietam Classic cycles is a good thing.

[radguzzi]

Dean,
We use the Velorex 565, on the '99 EV, the car is a 2005 model with a updated wheel spindle, it fits well, once set up correctly they are a blast. 

You will want to carry a few pounds of counterbalance weight when you don't have Cindy with you.  Well, unless you like lifting the car, I personally do not.  On hard right handers, the car will come up easily without weight in it.

The top of the Velo lifts up for easy access for the passenger, this one has a fully enclosed top as well.

I did install a Unit Forks Leading Link front end although there are other methods to ease the steering effort such as EZ-Steer triple tree replacements.
The Unit also slides into the existing Guzzi trees.  One day I would like to graft the EV front fender back onto the Unit Fork, I think it looks better plus it is a full coverage fender.

This is how ours looked when we got it years ago...

Anyway, properly set up, they are fun.  I use this one quite a bit actually.



Since then I have converted to the Unit LL Forks and swapped the big-ass screen with an Aerofoil...

[Rich A]

I have a Texas standard tub rigged to my Jackal. If I were to do it again, I'd get their slightly larger car, but for my purposes this works well most of the time. I think the Califonia series make good tugs.



I also had the 3-trees modified by steerite in Canada, and that makes steering much easier, but I'm not sure that they are still in business.

My rig also has some Bassa (= very wide) handlebars, which gives you some extra leverage that I find helpful in turns.

I'd suggest taking a buddy's outfit for a ride if possible. Not everyone likes the way hacks handle, but I thoroughly enjoy mine.

Rich A

[Shorty]

I like the sturdy build and traditional look of a Ural sidecar. In my view, it is a good visual match for a Guzzi. 



Mounting kits available at Dauntless sidecar. (pics taken at random from web)

[Rich A]

I like the sturdy build and traditional look of a Ural sidecar.

Those are a good looking match--how long do the tires for hack last?

Rich A

[StuCorpe]

I used the Texas Ranger on my 03EV. Like it pretty well although does feel a little lighter on right hand turns than the Ural did.

[BillinPA]

Hi Dean, I put some years in with my Cal II/ Velorex and enjoyed it.  I now have a Super-glide with a Texas Ranger. The Texas Ranger is a much better car in my opinion. Happy Hunting!!!!

[Shorty]

Those are a good looking match--how long do the tires for hack last?

Rich A

I' m not sure. The  Russian tires that came with mine were 4 or 6 ply. Tread was still good, but sidewalls were cracked.  No idea how old my sidecar is,  (or how many miles) but I'm guessing 1970s.......New tire still has low miles. Good question for Rich Maund (sp?) the seatmaker. He ran a similiar set up for years........ I'm a relative newbie....

[radguzzi]

I agree that the Ural cars are a good match for the Guzzi tug... looks good and substantial too.  They probably weigh a bit more than the Velorex. 

A couple of riding buds here have them.  Obviously not having the side door panels there is not as much protection but hey, you're almost sitting on the road to begin with... 

Best,
Rob

[Sheepdog]

I don't know a thing about them, but I love the Watsonian sidecars. Lots of size and style options...I like the Monza...
http://www.warkshop.com/WATSONIANSQUIRESIDECARS.htm

[Tom]

The Boss with the Eldo/Watsonian hack.  Good match.  I have a Velorex 562 to hook up maybe to the Cali III but as Rod says I'd have to put some ballast in.

[radguzzi]

I have long loved the look of the Hannigan rigs too but thought they may be to heavy for a Guzzi...

http://www.hannigantrikes.com/product-type/sidecars/

I like this one it even has a trunk... and there is a great 2+2 with a hard top but that is really a tank.

[Tom]

Dave Talley with his equipment hack.  He showed up with a gas bbq for the Deep Forest Campout in WA.  He made some teriyaki pork.

[radguzzi]

Wow Tom,
Dave wins...  well, in that category, the Boss wins in the other... 

Rob

[Tom]

I'll let her know. 

[azguzzirep]

Buy a rig and don't spoil your EV. 😁

[Texas Turnip]

Hi Dean,
Make sure that they are set up right. I've seen them blow a tire in under a 1,000 miles.

Completely different than operating a cycle. More than one has been killed by not being familiar with right hand turns. Make sure yoou have ballast if not carrying a passenger.

Lots of fun. My daughters loved riding in them.

Tex

[radguzzi]

Hi Dean,
Make sure that they are set up right. I've seen them blow a tire in under a 1,000 miles.

Completely different than operating a cycle. More than one has been killed by not being familiar with right hand turns. Make sure yoou have ballast if not carrying a passenger.

Lots of fun. My daughters loved riding in them.

Tex

Good advice to learn how to pilot one of these things, good point Ken...

Worth mentioning also that Lee Bruns attachment lugs are spot on and made for Guzzi frames. 

Best,
Rob

[Chuck in Indiana]

Just reading through this thread.. sidecar tires last forever.. IMHO, the Velorex is built too lightly for a Guzzi.. there are considerable forces at work if you do anything except putt down to the ice cream store. John A will never be accused of building a too light rig.  Yes, take a sidecar course. They have several ways of killing you, and you have some motorcycle rider reactions to unlearn. The only thing the same as riding a bike is where the controls are placed. The best handling rig I've driven is ccoli's EML/Cali. It has the whole enchilada including car tires. It will hustle right on down a twisty road.

[Shorty]

http://www.sidecar.com/Files/SC%20OP%20Manual.pdf  Older sidecar manual.

Ural version:     https://s3.amazonaws.com/UralManuals/HowToRideUral.pdf

[radguzzi]

http://www.sidecar.com/Files/SC%20OP%20Manual.pdf  Older sidecar manual.

Ural version:     https://s3.amazonaws.com/UralManuals/HowToRideUral.pdf

   Nice Shorty...  Good advise indeed.  I read these manuals and asked for guidance before I put a single mile on our rig and I am glad I did.

I do not like to fly the chair, it scares the shit out of me, don't like it.   

Once in a great while I will experiment by bringing it up on a sharp, low speed right hander when no one else is nearby and I just don't seem to carry it through very well.  On long right handers on the road I still lean into the turn in fear of bringing the car up, even with counterweight.

Some people dig it and they are good at it...

Best,
Rob

[ccridr]

 The  vetter side car makes a good tub for a guzzi. They are the correct weight and are easy to rig to open frame bikes, they are also aero dymanic. If you are interested pm me I have a couple sidecars for sale. ccridr

[Tom]

Hey Dean.....since no one has mentioned it, I will.  A good training vehicle is an ATV.  Driving at speed doing figure 8's and turns will give you some simulated training for hack operation.  Mainly the upper body leaning and steering.  That's just a start.  There are some good hints on doing some preliminary reading on operating one.  David Hough's manual on hack operation is also a good read.

http://www.whitehorsegear.com/driving-a-sidecar-outfit-2nd-edition

[Shorty]

  Nice Shorty...  Good advise indeed.  I read these manuals and asked for guidance before I put a single mile on our rig and I am glad I did.

I do not like to fly the chair, it scares the shit out of me, don't like it.   

Once in a great while I will experiment by bringing it up on a sharp, low speed right hander when no one else is nearby and I just don't seem to carry it through very well.  On long right handers on the road I still lean into the turn in fear of bringing the car up, even with counterweight.

Some people dig it and they are good at it...

Best,
Rob

You might remember that I plowed a parked car not long after getting my first rig, the Convert/Ural. Turned right, flew the chair. Folded the front forks and had "Dellorto" imprinted on both shins  These days I run 80 pounds of ballast. I intend to keep it slow til I get sidecar brakes and a LL front end on the current set up.  I am hooked. Love driving the sidecar.

[Tom]

 :1:  High visibility vehicle.  Great for hauling stuff.   Long distance, I'd set mine up differently but loads of fun.

[Chuck in Indiana]

:1:  High visibility vehicle.  Great for hauling stuff.   Long distance, I'd set mine up differently but loads of fun.

All true. I *never* had some doofus pull out in front of me on the rig. I think it's just different enough that cagers notice it.

[John A]

[n3303j]

I do not like to fly the chair, it scares the shit out of me, don't like it.   

Once in a great while I will experiment by bringing it up on a sharp, low speed right hander when no one else is nearby and I just don't seem to carry it through very well.  On long right handers on the road I still lean into the turn in fear of bringing the car up, even with counterweight.

Some people dig it and they are good at it...

Best,
Rob

In the sidecar course we circled the instructor (individually) to the right in about a 50 foot circle.  We were to slowly increase throttle until the chair came off the ground around a foot. We were warned that there would be a drastic change in steering pressure when the car became airborne (the bars want to go left into oncoming traffic). We were told to adjust pressure to maintain the circle and hold the throttle. The chair just hung a foot up as we circled over and over again. The scariness went away.
Next was swerves with correction. Chair either came up on the swerve or the correction depending if we were signaled left or right. We were used to the change in pressures so we just maintained radius and speed and drove smoothly through the swerves.

OTOH I'm sweeping a 25 Ural ride through the country. There is a right turn ahead and 23 people negotiate it with no issues whatsoever (we weren't speeding). Fellow in front of me is afraid of his rig. He last minute twiches in the turn and up comes the chair (loaded with 200# monkey and enough gear for a month on the road in Mongolia). Steering pressure changes and he doesn't add pressure so he's across the left lane, off the road and the deep soft sand arrested his forward progress just before the less inviting New England stone wall.

Lessons to be learned 300# of ballast won't keep the chair down if you don't  input proper steering moves. You will go where the bike wants unless you keep the front wheel pointed where you want to go.

Bike steers like a quad or a trike UNTIL you get the chair/bike balanced with center of gravity over the line between the two contact patches on the pavement (that's probably about a 45 degree angle). At that point you get to countertsteer just like any other two wheeler. Note: you are holding the front weight of the rig away from the ground against the trail and the steering effort is extreme.

Practice, practice, and practice some more. I've got about 60,000 KM on my Ural and I've really enjoyed the last 50,000 of them.

[Chuck in Indiana]

John A will never be accused of building a too light rig. 

I rest my case, your honor..