Cycle Whirl Ethanol article

[ITSec]

Today's central PA prices.......

Wow - somebody just doesn't want to sell premium - or is hoping the customers don't notice till after they pump! If I see a difference higher than 10-15 cents per grade jump, I move along...

[OlDogface]

Of note, the "Premium" is ethanol free 91 grade whilst the "Regular" is E10 89.

[LowRyter]

I was riding back from Tulsa to OKC today (ABOUT 120 MILES) when one of the guys was wanting to get non ethanol gas for his "classic" KZ1000 Kawasaki.  I didn't really want to ride all over town to get "real" gas.

I said that "you'll burn most of that tank on the way back".

I got a "deer in the headlights look" back and said "I'll ride back now and see you later."

[ITSec]

Of note, the "Premium" is ethanol free 91 grade whilst the "Regular" is E10 89.

I'm among those less worried by a limited amount of ethanol, though that helps me understand the price. I am, however, concerned by where and how we get the ethanol - and by the fact we are not being offered many opportunities to choose as we prefer.

[Rough Edge racing]

 Near Rochester NY , 91 octane non ethanol is readily available. the cost is about 40 cents more a gallon than  E10 93 octane...The Cali cafe, older Ducati Monster and the Buell run fine on 91. The vintage Triumphs can detonate on 91 and need the 93 octane E10...I can't notice any performance difference on the three newer bikes between E10 and pure gasoline ...I use 108 MOT octane leaded race gas in my vintage Triumph race bikes...Sometimes I use it in the modern bikes just to get rid of the last gallon after racing is done for year...Makes the interior of the exhaust pipes a light gray and has a distinctive sweet order...And lots of lead pollution 

[bratman2]

I think ITSec covered it all pretty good! Around me in nowhere North Carolina I have more choices than I did 10 years ago. I can easily get 87, 89 or 90 no ethanol. The price doesn't matter that much to me because it just isn't that high. Last 87 purchase from the distributor was maybe 35 cent more, 90 at the pump was another 20 cent more. All my four wheelers, zero turn and Subaru Brat get pure 87. Norge gets pure 89 or 90. Sure they will run on alcohol laced fuel. Generate more internal temperatures, fear of separation if they sit too long and make less hp on E10 too! I am glad I have choices! Also glad we have ethanol to reduce the use of oil.

[rocker59]

  that insecticide, herbicide, fertilizer, and altered DNA ends up in the Mississippi River to be used as drinking water or for other farms that DO produce food. 

Holy Crapola!  What poor towns still use Mississippi River water for drinking water?   That sounds nasty!

[Sheepdog]

I can't speak for every town, but New Orleans and Minneapolis use it. It is heavily processed. I expect that many other municipalities use it, as well. Below is an article that explains that (among other things) agriculture is hardly regulated on the Mississippi River.

http://dels.nas.edu/resources/static-assets/materials-based-on-reports/reports-in-brief/miss_river_cwa_final.pdfJ

I live near New Orleans, but we are in the country and use well water. Despite the testing we do annually (it always comes back bacteria and chemical-free) we filter all of our drinking and cooking water with a Brita...

[rocker59]

I can't speak for every town, but New Orleans and Minneapolis use it. It is heavily processed. I expect that many other municipalities use it, as well. 

Well, if ever I return to New Orleans, it's bottled water only!

[Air-Cooled]

Much of our drinking water is recycled sewage. It always tests fine.

[ITSec]

Well, if ever I return to New Orleans, it's bottled water only!

Better plan for the same in Las Vegas or anywhere else supplied by the lower Colorado River - or for that matter, almost any downstream city. I drink tap water in Las Vegas, but every drop goes through a filter first. I trust their disinfection, but the sediment and organics still need to be removed!

[LowRyter]

Much of our drinking water is recycled sewage. It always tests fine.

that's why when you don't have piped water, you have a well and septic tank.

Nature has a great way to cleanse water .....

[webmost]

Putting corn in my fuel tanks really tans my hide... This is really just the result of political decisions. Poor people suffer. Bees suffer. My Norge suffers from noticeably poorer fuel economy and engine performance... All for the sake of what?

There's the crux of it: We are burning food. How the hell do you justify that?

[Two Checks]

Why is ethanol cheaper? It is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers.
If it wasnt we couldnt afford it.
A friend runs the stuff in one of his race cars. He says its very "wet" meaning it has a high water content.
It also requires 3x the amount of fuel.
Don't fo4get the amount of water and natural gas it requires to make ethanol. Not very efficient.

[stevet]

Holy Crapola!  What poor towns still use Mississippi River water for drinking water?   That sounds nasty!

Minneapolis and St. Paul, and many 1st ring suburbs of each that buy water from these 2 biggies, all get their water from the Mighty Miss.  Much of the aquifer well water around here (northwest side of Minneapolis, anyway) is so hard that it can test from 25 to 40+ grains hardness.  The river water is naturally soft(er), but needs to be heavily cleaned.

Steve.

[Testarossa]

Here in Colorado, where we're upstream from everyone, you'd think the water would be pretty clean. In fact it has to be scrubbed of heavy metals and other crap leaching into the streams from old mines.

Now that the Great Lakes have been mostly cleaned up (a 40-year process), lakeside cities seem to do pretty well on lake water. Perhaps the best water in the country is in New York City, which pipes the stuff from the Catskill Mountains. Those drainages have been protected for 150 years.

[Two Checks]

All that canned water our local brewery sende in times of need comes from the Mississippi.
And all that beer they make uses the same water.

[LowRyter]

There's the crux of it: We are burning food. How the hell do you justify that?

cow food. 

maybe high fructose corn syrup too? 

but nothing fit for human consumption in either case.   

[LowRyter]

Here in Colorado, where we're upstream from everyone, you'd think the water would be pretty clean. In fact it has to be scrubbed of heavy metals and other crap leaching into the streams from old mines.

Now that the Great Lakes have been mostly cleaned up (a 40-year process), lakeside cities seem to do pretty well on lake water. Perhaps the best water in the country is in New York City, which pipes the stuff from the Catskill Mountains. Those drainages have been protected for 150 years.

funny you'd say that.  I had a buddy living in the Red River NM and said to just drink water out of the stream.  Man, it was rank and barely clear, tasted like crap.

[oldbike54]

cow food. 

maybe high fructose corn syrup too? 

but nothing fit for human consumption in either case.   

 Cows gotta eat too  Seriously , we can do better .

 Dusty

[Rough Edge racing]

 I live about three miles from Lake Ontario....Sewage goes out into the lake in one pipe...and drinking water comes out of the lake in another pipe, both treated of course...Ontario is the last of the 5 Great Lakes before the water heads for the ocean...So Ontario is sorta the armpit of the Great Lakes...

  On topic...I went out for a bike ride and passed by Fast Track, 91 octane non ethanol, $2.79 a gallon, passed by a general store/ radiator repair shop selling Sunoco non ethanol for the same price....Rode for awhile and stopped at another general store selling  Sunoco with five grades of fuel...91 non ethanol  $3.59 a gallon....The only thing missing was a ski mask and gun...

[LowRyter]

so Rough, is this a big toilet bowl?

[ITSec]

so Rough, is this a big toilet bowl?

I remember when I first saw those falls - before they did the clean-up and reinforcement of the ledge, and way before they cleaned up the crap going into the lakes. At one point Lake Erie looked like you could walk across it.

Now? It's pretty, and it's way cleaner than it used to be - but I wouldn't drink from it directly, and I'd have up to date tetanus shots before swimming in it!

Then again, that applies to pretty much any waterway that has development along it. 

[kingoffleece]

I live about 20 miles from the Falls.

We've made great strides in cleaning up the lakes but it's not nearly done yet.

[LowRyter]

it's hard to believe considering the volume of water that the Great Lakes and the St Lawrence would ever be that bad.  I am glad that it is now such a beautiful sight from my visit.