Author Topic: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?  (Read 5768 times)

Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2016, 02:07:00 AM »
Shouldn't it be:
No attraction = nikasil
slight = chrome
strong = iron

I think you guys are convincing me to change my cylinders sooner than later. Mine's a 77 850 T3, quiet and runs strong. Takes maybe a quart in 3K miles. Had 39K on the clock when purchased this summer, now at 44K

One of the valve cover screws is sheared so need to pull the head to fix that. It's work hardened and a drill bit won't touch it. I've got a set of 850 Gilardonis waiting in the wings, so perhaps this is the time. Is there any helpful advice doing this job or is it as straight-forward and simple as it would appear? I've learned, having done BMWs for a lot of years, not to assume anything. It seems like it should be a simple job, but I'd like to know any tricks or pit falls to watch for.



If you put on Nikasil you need the right piston rings for them, or did they come with the jugs?.

Offline jvb

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2016, 02:26:15 AM »
I can confirm that nikasil has a slight magnetic attraction. Slight but it's there and you'll feel it..


Online pete roper

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2016, 03:32:15 AM »
Wrong on the footsteps two.

The earth has a nickel iron core. Both of these elements will create a magnetic field and react magnetically. Chrome does not.

So Nicasil, a nickel/silicon compound will have a mild magnetic attraction, chrome? Nuffink!

Pete

Offline philmac

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2016, 08:16:02 AM »
I have an early T3 that's been sitting for a long time and, sure enough, a large chunk of chrome is missing in one bore(and I can't find it which is worrying). I'm confident that the engine hasn't been run with the chrome flaking as the big ends etc are totally clean and there's no marks on the piston.

Planning the have Langcourt in the UK replate the barrels with nicasil. I have the original 4 ring pistons in good condition. Can the original rings be used with nicasil?

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2016, 09:05:39 AM »
"Original" rings work equally well with chrome and Nikasil. Or buy Deves rings which work with everything.

Shouldn't it be:
No attraction = nikasil
slight = chrome
strong = iron

No, I had it correct the first time. Chrome has absolutely zero magnetic attraction.
Charlie
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Offline Rusnak_322

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2016, 10:12:38 AM »
Chromium is remarkable for its magnetic properties: it is the only elemental solid which shows antiferromagnetic (non magnetic) ordering at room temperature (and below). Above 38 °C, it transforms into a paramagnetic (attracted to a magnet) state.


Found this - first google result
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2016, 11:16:46 AM »
Chromium is remarkable for its magnetic properties: it is the only elemental solid which shows antiferromagnetic (non magnetic) ordering at room temperature (and below). Above 38 �C, it transforms into a paramagnetic (attracted to a magnet) state.


Found this - first google result

But, for our cylinder material identification purposes, it has no magnetic attraction.
Charlie
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Offline arveno

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2016, 11:58:21 AM »
But, for our cylinder material identification purposes, it has no magnetic attraction.



 :1:

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Offline John A

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2016, 12:58:51 PM »
I bought a '71 Ambassador in '77 and rode it from MN to CA. At 60K it was getting tired so it was time for a refurb. I found a machine shop in Sacramento that did a lot of work on police Guzzis. They said that the difference in the expansion rates between the chrome and aluminum caused the chrome to crack and peel off. The chrome would embed in the bearings and chew things up. Their fix was to sleeve the cylinders and recut the ring grooves in the pistons and fit them with automotive type rings. Their work held up and I put over 200K on two Ambassadores.
John
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Offline garbln

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2016, 01:25:23 PM »
Interesting hearing about all the experiences here.  So here's mine.

I bought my 70 Ambo as a pile of parts as the PO had pulled it apart to do a complete resto.  He unfortunately died and the pile of parts sat for ? years.  I bought the pile about 5 yrs ago and did the job and have been riding it for about 2 years now.  The engine had been stripped down to the block with the cyls removed and the pan and front covers also removed when I got it.  The speedometer said 40+ K miles and I assume that was the orig. miles.  The cyls. had iron sleeves in them, and I could see they had been run that way, but very little as the cross hatching was undisturbed and no discernible ridge on the top of the cyl.  I pulled the whole bottom end down and checked everything and it looked like everything was original with wear but all within specs.!!  The slinger was nearly full of gunk for sure but everything else looked good.  We miked the original pistons and the iron bores and again all in spec.!!  Oh and in the pile of parts was a complete new set of correct rings!  With a light hone on the cyls, new seals and gaskets the whole works went together and its been running great for two years and about 4k miles.
  From all this I have deduced that while it had chrome bores someone resleeved  them before they had a total fail.  No trace of chips damaging any bearings or cam lobes so I lucked out.  But whoever did the sleeving did sloppy assembly work because one piston was installed backwards,  and one old head gasket in the pile had been installed upside down.  The evdince being a new oil drain hole being punched in it with a phillips screwdriver ( a + shaped hole).   I did get the whole works pretty cheap so all in all I did  pretty good.   

Offline SmokyBC

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2016, 01:28:03 PM »
I did mine, and found it to be straight forward. If you have airhead experience, it will be easy.

Everything is built stout in this design. The internal pushrods tubes are an improvement on the BMW design.

With all parts on hand, this is easily done in a day.
Don Schmok
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Offline Yeahoo Whoyah

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2016, 05:29:51 PM »
At the Nationals in John Day I talked to Dennis who rode up from the State of Jefferson section of NorCal.  His old loop was quite unique.  I believe he said he had put about 500,000 miles on it since 1979, chrome cylinders were never replaced. Notice the non-fix for exhaust port thread damage, just pack 'em and strap 'em with chain to pull the header pipe in.
   





 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 05:38:34 PM by Yeahoo Whoyah »
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Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2016, 10:50:56 PM »
I've known Dennis Venema for a lot of years from the Redding area.  Apparently what he didn't tell you is he has a bunch of old Eldo donors if and when he needs any parts.   He lives in a cabin with no electricity. You are liable to meet him at most any Guzzi National.  :bow:  His and  my motto is, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  :grin:

Offline wirespokes

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2016, 01:30:25 AM »
That's good news about nikasil being slightly magnetic. The last time this topic came up, it was stated that chrome was slightly magnetic, not nikasil. My cylinders are slightly magnetic. I'll have to check the parts bike cylinders (chrome) just to verify.

Offline Phang

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2016, 01:39:12 AM »
I have a set of original chromed bore cylinders from a 1973 V7 Sport on the shelf, just went to test them with a strong neodymium magnet five minutes ago.

zero attraction.

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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2016, 08:30:08 AM »
Quote
Shouldn't it be:
No attraction = nikasil
slight = chrome
strong = iron

No. Chrome is not magnetic at any temperature we'd be checking it, as far as I know. <shrug>
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2016, 04:50:31 PM »
Does anybody know the difference between nikasil vs. nigusil cylinders (if any) ?

Online pete roper

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2016, 05:33:04 PM »
Nothing, it was just a naming thing.

Offline Rod

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2016, 08:23:33 AM »
I bought my Ambo with 22k and I noticed lack of power and smoke on the left side. Sure enough, lots of chrome loss and also broken rings (not sure if related). Right cylinder looked fine. Cleaned out my engine case and took my crankshaft/camshaft/rods down to Charlie and he advised the crank was a little pitted so we sent it out to be ground. Have my Gilardonis now and its running great. Attached is a picture of the chrome loss. (Left cylinder is on the right)

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Offline Farmer Dan

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2016, 02:43:29 PM »
My Father's '72 Eldo was torn down and stored in wooden boxes in '75.  In 2011 I got the bike and started putting it back together and restoring it.  Chrome bores where in good shape less than 25,000 miles on the clock.  Never could get it to run "Nice".  This summer put in Gilardoni's and she purrs like a kitten (a loud one LOL).  Argue about the chrome all day long in the end the new jugs and pistons will make it run better.
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I love old iron

Offline Tom

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2016, 03:40:33 PM »
I have iron bores in my T3 and  V7 Sport.  Chrome in the Ambassador that was replaced with a another chrome bore when the left cylinder was worn.  The '72 has Gilardoni's and the '75 Eldo, not sure.  I'll have to test.  If not then I'll do a top end if the bottom end is whacked.  Otherwise an engine swap.
There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.

Offline jas67

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2016, 05:07:36 PM »
My Father's '72 Eldo was torn down and stored in wooden boxes in '75.

Why?
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Offline Farmer Dan

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2016, 06:43:11 PM »
His brother bought the bike and had the transmission rebuilt under warranty.  Not sure why he never put it back together.  I'm guessing he got married, started a business had kids, moved into a new house and just ran out of spare time.  When I asked him he said he couldn't remember LOL.  I know he did a good job of hacking up the wiring harness.
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Offline Tom

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Re: Chrome cylinders - replaced or not?
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2016, 07:19:46 PM »
Kind of like my older brother.  A "Broke-chanic".
There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.

 

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