Author Topic: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety  (Read 5143 times)

Offline RANDM

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2016, 06:30:21 AM »
Agree with Dan on the patience too.
I suppose it's the basic necessity in traffic and at the root
of why I don't think aggressive works when your stuck with it.
Be assertive and read the whole of your surrounds and use the
power to take advantage of gaps which appear because you
Positioned yourself to do that 30 secs ago.
And you know when not to and when you need to wait because
You know what's behind you and beside you as well.

Maurie.

redrider

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2016, 07:16:01 AM »
Being predators, we have evolved to respond to movement. That stationary deer is invisible until it moves.

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2016, 09:38:19 AM »
 Here is a scenario .

 Operator is on a low powered motorbike , say 40 HP and 400 lbs . Said operator is travelling a rural 2 lane road containing some good curves at a spirited clip , not overly exuberant , just fast enough to be fun . He (or she) comes up behind a very slow moving vehicle that is acting in an erratic way . Operator is fairly patient and waiting for a safe enough place to pass , and being on a low powered bike , must wait a bit . Another vehicle comes up behind , and operator gives a clear indication of his intention to overtake the slower vehicle in front . Long clear passing zone appears operator gives left turn signal , checks his mirrors , enters left lane to pass, pins the throttle  , hears a very loud roar just off his left rear , and more senses than sees a large PU attempting to overtake not only the slow moving car in front , but the motorcycle as well that is accelerating as fast as its 40 Shetlands are capable of . Operator responds instinctively and gets as far to the right as possible , almost touching the vehicle he is attempting to overtake all the while hoping the slower car won't move to their left . Large PU , blowing diesel smoke is half off the road to its left , and never lets off , almost clips a mail box and kicking up gravel and dirt . MC operator remains fairly calm considering , allows the large PU to continue on , although there is a fair bit of anger at how much disregard the PU driver has shown for the MC operator's life . Still , the operator is an experienced rider , and not prone to road rage , so after some choice expletives are exclaimed , and a middle finger displayed , operator regains control of his emotions , finds a safe place to pull over and dismount , considers calling 911 and giving a description of the PU and its very blond very female driver . Decides it won't do any good , smokes about half a cigar , tries to figure out what the lesson here was , figures out that some folks are just jackasses , smiles , chuckles , moves on.

 Any thoughts on this ?

 Dusty
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Hope for an answer someday

Offline Robert

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2016, 09:50:50 AM »
When on two lanes stay toward the outside of your lane when traffic approaches as you are more visible at a further distance to oncoming vehicles that might be thinking of passing the vehicle in front of them.
GliderJohn

By outside, do you mean away from the center line?

I like to be away from the center line just to keep distance from vehicles in the other lane.

But I sometimes think that may encourage oncoming (or following) idiots to pass with less than necessary roadway.

Sometimes I move closer to the centerline to 'discourage' passing by following cars for this reason.  I don't do this right in front of them, but ahead aways as I anticipate the situation.

We will also have oncoming cars pass a string, intentionally forcing both lanes of cars to split and take the shoulder for them.  Hasn't happened on the bike yet, but I study the shoulder and make an avoidance plan, when facing a long string of oncoming in case an impatient car just has to make his move. 




Offline johnr

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2016, 10:01:35 AM »
Here is a scenario .

 
 Any thoughts on this ?

 Dusty

Given that the operator checked his mirrors before the move, no, no comment at all. Except maybe that he might need better mirrors, and to say that I've been there.

Edit
What's a PU?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 10:03:29 AM by johnr »
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Online oldbike54

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2016, 10:11:40 AM »
Given that the operator checked his mirrors before the move, no, no comment at all. Except maybe that he might need better mirrors, and to say that I've been there.

Edit
What's a PU?

 Sorry John , PU is American shorthand for a pick up truck , and this one was about the size of those buses you drove in NZ .

 Oh , the operator's motorbike had really large clear mirrors . The whole thing was nothing more than a bully in a large vehicle acting like , well , a bully .

 Dusty
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Hope for an answer someday

Online gliderjohn

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2016, 11:35:11 AM »
With no oncoming traffic or traffic that I can see behind I generally stay toward the centerline. When traffic is approaching that I cannot tell if it may have a vehicle close behind getting ready to pass I move to the outer line. Serves two purposes it creates movement and the second car can see you sooner.
GliderJohn
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Walton, KS

Offline ScepticalScotty

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2016, 12:44:15 PM »
I was in a similar situation Dusty, except I gave the finger to a lady who pulled out on me. She then tried to run me off the road for the next few miles in her sports car, until I pulled into a motorcycle dealership. She got out her car, shouting abuse, to which I replied "well you should have tried looking" She then realised a number of bikers were looking at her in amazement and backed off. My hear was really going.....
Scotty

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Offline RANDM

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2016, 02:00:32 PM »
There never seems to be an answer for plain thick asa brick
Stupid performed with dedication does there Dusty.
Maybe it's the fault of the Nanny State of Mind that saves
the terminally Stoopid from themselves - if they'd grown
up in my time they'd have already bin culled from the Gene
Pool.
We got a bad mix of  aspirations over here.
A driving license is a right not a priveledge.
A Gov spouting absolutely bullshit impossible shit like
"We're aiming for Zero road fatalities"
Ect ect.

How 'bout tougher licensing that keeps the incapable from
getting behind the wheel?
Too simple?

Maurie.

Online unclepete

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2016, 03:13:53 PM »
A bit over 20 years ago , a friend and I entered the highway in Reno NV , right in front of the MGM , northbound . I worked my way over to the left lane and Jim was momentarily next to me . A lime green sub-compact split lanes between our two bikes , maybe 20 mph faster . I had just bought an open face helmet , so I moved ahead and next to him , and said something that he could not hear , shaking my finger at him , like you would when correcting a small child . I think I even smiled .
He took a swipe at me with the car , as if threatening to knock me down . I moved on ahead . Looking in my mirrors I could see that traffic had slowed to a crawl behind me . Jim got in front of him with his K bike , and every time the car changed lanes to get around him , he got in front of him . Just two lanes then .
Now we have two crazies on the road .
They both exited behind me , so I doubled back at the next exit and met Jim coming back on the old highway .
He had followed the car onto a lot where a phone company had a couple of trucks working on the lines ; lots of workers . 
The young man driving was no longer cocky ; they had locked themselves into the car , and girlfriend was terrified , crying her eyes out .
So he moved on . Found out later that the car was registered to girlfriend's mom . Seems those with the least to lose are the boldest , til they get caught .

Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2016, 03:26:33 PM »
  When I let out the clutch I am entering a combat zone.  All other drivers are there to kill me either through negligence or design.
 And yes there are MC casualties from friendly fire too.
Sasquatch Jim        Humanoid, sort of.

jest2dogs

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2016, 03:40:32 PM »
In response to Mike/mjptexas,

Ride Smooth. I agree.

I added to my stable last spring, a 2015 Ural cT sidehack. It's way fun to drive but a very different ride than a two-wheeler. (Took the 3-wheeler driving course two years ago to qualify for WA endorsement.)

With the new experience of handling a three wheeler comes the teaching of new muscle memory. And with that came, almost naturally, a desire and need to drive smoothly. A hack responds very differently to sudden changes in movement, like darting around an obstacle, than does a two-wheeler.

So, working on the smooth makes for a nice, controlled and comfortable ride.

Unfortunately, the rest of the stable does not get much attention of late. The iron-barreled RE awaits a facelift and the Baby Breva needs some attention. She won't run well at lower RPM's, tending to buck a lot. Or, (this is way fun) refusing to go more that 2,000 rpm after restarting while on errands. Lotsa fun to find that out once you pull into traffic.  :undecided:

So, I am smoothly enjoying the utility and comfort of the sidecar before I have to come in out of the cold, winter rains and face the stablemates.

On a safety note, the Ural seems to be a lot more visible in traffic, but I still drive like no one is aware I am there and carry forth my active visibility actions, like standing up on the pegs or, leaning off the bike towards a non-seeing driver until my stare and looming mass catch his/her eye. (It works!)

One last thing, an "invisible" encounter I had on the Breva a couple of years back. I ride, fully aware that no one really sees me. (It is not a stealth mode.)

I saw the pickup about to pull out in front of me from an alley on the right. I slowed to "just upright" speed and the driver looked both ways and looked right at me but, nonetheless, turned left across the front of me. I was already prepared for that. The driver continued to look in my direction and, as he passed by my left side, I could see the "lightbulb" go on in his eyes. He just then realized, our eyes locked, no more that 4 feet apart, that he had pulled out in front of me. He mouthed an, "I'm sorry". I smiled and all was good.

The crazy part was that this guy was looking right at me the whole time, and only after he had cut me off, and after he had pulled alongside and was now staring at me from four feet away, only then did his mind register what he was looking at. It was really humorous to see that "light" come on.

Stay safe everyone.

-Jesse
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 04:01:51 PM by jest2dogs »

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2016, 03:51:29 PM »
 Circa 1991 had an encounter with a car full of teenagers , the driver swerved at me as they approached , all of the occupants laughing and yelling obscenities . Unfortunately for them , a witness knew the driver's dad , which led to a very unpleasant experience for the driver and his buddies . It was so bad I almost felt sorry for the kids , but not quite .

 Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
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Offline johnr

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2016, 05:51:57 PM »
Circa 1991 had an encounter with a car full of teenagers , the driver swerved at me as they approached , all of the occupants laughing and yelling obscenities . Unfortunately for them , a witness knew the driver's dad , which led to a very unpleasant experience for the driver and his buddies . It was so bad I almost felt sorry for the kids , but not quite .

 Dusty

A very satisfying outcome in that instance Dusty.

Quote
They do see you! It's just that, consciously or not, they ignore you.

For that reason I believe that one of the best things organised motorcycling could do for itself is a (TV) road safety add campaign focusing on the damage a motorcycle can do to a car. (which is a lot!)

I feel the need to expand a little on this.

Consider for a moment the frontal area of a motorcycle and rider. This will vary a bit from bike to bike and is less than most other vehicles. It is not unsubstantial though. Off the top of my head I would guess between 10 and 15 square feet.

A person who does not actually see 10 to 15 sq' is also not going to see a pedestrian, a cow or even perhaps some small cars.

It should be remembered that 'Smidgy' is the first excuse that pops into a motorists mind when he is trying to absolve himself of blame. More often than not it is outright fibbing.  It goes into the stats just the same.

While  I'm sure there are genuine cases of motorcyclists not being seen for one reason or another I would suggest that these in fact are quite rare.

What the motorist is doing when he looks, say at an intersection, is looking for threats. He feels safe in his car. Safer than normal in fact because his personal space is extended to more than normal and he is 'contained' as well.
(if you want to check out this effect try driving your car with it's windscreen removed. That is how I became aware of this phenomenon)

He, like most of us probably, has been able to relegate most of his basic driving tasks to the automatic pilot.

His eyes report the motorcycle to the auto pilot which promptly decides that such a small object does not represent a threat so it does not bother to report this to the Pilot (conscious mind)

He then "Does Not See You"

The techniques suggested here and elsewhere for being seen are all about getting the conscious mind to recognise you. This is far more likely to happen if the conscious mind has warned the auto pilot that "Hey! That thing is going to come right through the drivers door and punt me through the passenger window!"

On the cop bike I rode I could see masses of motorway traffic moderating their speed nearly half a mile ahead! The cop bike represented a threat, of a kind. It was seen!

That anyway was the thinking, be it right or wrong, behind  the suggested ad campaign.


 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 06:07:10 PM by johnr »
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

Offline johnr

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Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2016, 06:14:20 PM »
Another one for the list.

Stay well away from heavy vehicles

Of those that I have known who have been actually killed on a motorcycle a disproportionate number involved heavy vehicles.

They are clumsy, they spit solid objects at you, they have numerous and often large blind spots.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 06:23:52 PM by johnr »
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

 

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