Next time you get pulled over by a LEO. NOT SPAM

[Tom]

NOT SPAM.... It's marked NGC.  The info from this podcast could help you next time you're pulled over.  NOT SPAM!!!

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a23944/how-to-reduce-the-odds-of-being-ticketed-when-youre-pulled-over/?src=nl&mag=pop&list=nl_pnl_news&date=111916

[Turin]

That's pretty much what I do, but never thought about the dome light.

[Arizona Wayne]

I rarely drive at night, but if I do get a ticket and don't think I deserve it I fight it at court and have gotten off many times.  At this point in my life I rarely get tickets anyway.  It's been 9? years since I've gotten a ticket.

[o1marc]

When I was younger in Calif. you could go to traffic school once a year and get a ticket removed from your record instead of paying the fine or fighting it. I went to a school one day and it was being taught that day by an LAPD officer who started the class by announcing " Today I am going to teach you how to beat every ticket you get from now on." Turns out it was mostly common sense, something many people lack. The things I've learned is #1, you got pulled over because you did something wrong, it's best to be honest and just fess up to it. #2, I know you will never win an argument on the side of a road with an officer who has pulled you over. #3, you almost never will talk your way out a ticket by the CHP, that's their job. When he gets out of his car and approaches you he hasn't decided yet whether you get option #1 or option #2, that is based entirely on your attitude. Most police officers have the job for the respect that comes with the badge and the gun, give it to them. Most people think that when they get into court 3-6 months later that the officer is not going to remember them or anything about the specific incident because they deal with thousands of people and you would be mostly correct. What most people don't know it that after you pull of he pulls out his note book and makes notes about your attitude and that you were cussing him out and being argumentative and belligerent to him. When in court he may not remember you until he pulls out his note book and then you're done. Most people think the judge is on the cops side, but my experience has shown that the judge knows the cop will lie as much to get a conviction as you will to be exonerated. Be respectful of the court, dress appropriately, have witnesses if possible, photos help. after have your story ready in a brief and concise way. My brother and I beat a few tickets this way. After funding a wing of the Van Nuys court house out of my own pocket. I got 11 speeding tickets in one year in my Porsche, some of them over 100mph. Paid them all through the mail because there was no way I wanted to explain to a judge why I was going that fast. They were all cordial stops because I respected the officer doing his job. Then I learned to play the game. My ex wife used to get so pissed at me because the way I drive I was constantly getting pulled over, but I was never getting tickets. She just thought it was unfair. When I was doing the 71 in a 55 and the officer asked if I knew how fast was going I would always add a few miles an hour to what I actually did " I believe I was doing around 73mph." this kind of throws him because he actually only clocked me at 71. He say's I clocked you at "only" 71, now he's thrown off balance because they are used to you arguing that you weren't going that fast. Now he's dealing with someone who is honest and not trying to BS their way out of a ticket, it puts them at ease and less likely to throw the book at you. I look at traffic fines as a fee for the privilege of driving the way I do.
In my latter years I have found that I'm really not in that much of a hurry anymore and in my local area I have quizzed the police to see how fast I can go before they will pull you over, around here it's 15mph over, and that's just the speed to get you pulled over, but not necessarily will it get you a ticket. It gives them the right to pull you over and check for warrants, whether you've been drinking, doing drugs, etc.
I now drive most of the time, not using the pedals, but use the cruise control set at 12mph over the limit and rarely get pulled over now.
One time when asked why I was going over 100mph on Rt14 through the Mojave desert I used a quote I read in Road and track one time, A day like this, a car like this, and a road like this. He let me go with a warning and a smile on his face.
I was chased by the cops on my bike once trying to get away, almost got shot. Learned real quick that is not a wise choice, cost me a lot of aggravation and 3 days in the LA County jail, not fun.

[Arizona Wayne]

OK, that was all in California.  What's your driving record look like in Georgia?  And is that why you moved?

[ITSec]

I have always found the following to be good things to consider doing when pulled over.

Pull over at the first, best opportunity - don't make them follow you for any longer than needed, but don't stop somewhere where you, and worse yet they, will be in a hazardous situation while dealing with the stop.

If on a motorcycle, after stopping take off your helmet and gloves and set them on the tank in front of you. Don't reach into your jacket or tank bag! Then, wait for the officer with your hands in plain sight. This indicates you are not going to try to leave in a hurry, and makes you 'vulnerable' (subject of the stop being in the weaker position is a good thing!).

Once the conversation begins, be polite, reply directly (not evasively), but don't volunteer information unless specifically responding to the question. If you need to reach somewhere to get what's requested, say so. Q - "May I see your license and registration?" A - "Certainly. My wallet is in my jacket pocket, and my registration is in the saddlebag. May I get them for you now?" Do your best to leave a clear line of visibility for the officer while reaching into these spaces.

If the officer says something you disagree with, three options are available. First, you can supply something specific that addresses the matter: Q -"this insurance isn't current!"; A -"the insurance certificate is my old one, but it's been renewed with the same policy number". Second, you can deflect: Q - "Did you see the sign that"; response is "I believe I saw all the signs; where was the one you mentioned?" (use with caution). Third, you should leave it for another day (i.e,  court etc) - "I clocked you going X"; response (if any) is "I see". The key point is to never set up a conflict, argument or dispute on the side of the road.

Finally, if you are stopped and the officer mentions DUI issues, be honest. If he asks if you've been drinking (and you have), say so - BUT DON'T BE SPECIFIC. If you have had ONE drink but you say you haven't, a breathalyzer makes you guilty of lying to a LEO - even if the level is legal to drive. You go to jail for lying - even if you're legal to drive. Enough said about that, let's stay focused on how to make roadside engagement with LEOs as safe, and as positive, as it can be.

Like the sergeant said in Hill Street Blues - "Let's be careful out there!"

[pat80flh]

I've always found being honest and respectful goes a long way.

One morning, on my way to work, at the bottom of a mile and a half long hill, I ended up behind a little old lady, doing 20 mph. We were rounding a curve, I knew when the road straightened out, I would have a shot to pass her, double yellow line notwithstanding. As crest of the hill came into view, still almost 1000 yards away, I saw a car coming down, but had plenty of room to make the pass, which I did. Of course you guessed it, the car at the top was a county sheriff.

  As he went by me, I looked in my mirror, saw the brake lights, and knew he was coming back for me. I rode to the crest of the hill, dismounted and had my helmet up. He must have anticipated a chase, because he had to lock his brakes up when  he saw me by the side of the road. He looked pretty mad as he walked up to me so I said, " That was a pretty stupid thing to do in front of a cop, huh?" He sputtered out something unintelligible, then asked me if I hadn't seen the double yellow line. I told him I had seen it, explained about the little old lady, and that I knew I could make the pass safely. I finished up by saying, "You've got me dead to rights, and I'll understand if you right me a ticket."

   As we waited for my info to be run, he examined my bike, drag pipes and all, and observed, "bone stock bike." I didn't argue, figuring any talk of my newly installed S+S safety stroker kit, lumpy cam, etc. would be counter productive. He had mostly calmed down, then dispatch called back and said the plate belonged to a stolen Honda. Before he could say a word I told him he had transposed 2 numbers on my plate when he called it in, he did it again, it came back clean, and away I went with a stern warning.

[sib]

See also:  Chris Rock - How not to get your ass kicked by the police!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

[trippah]

After getting bagged going 35 in a 25 zone (THE driveway into Evangola State Park -sign hidden by overgrown shrubs) and going to court where the magistrate informed me that they never require the presence of the officer and that the appeals court judge was his cousin (Oh, and you also pay for the court costs), I paid the fine and grumbled my way home.  A month later, after leaving Army Reserve Drill at Niagra Falls Air Base, Me in my MG in toll booth one, when a Triumph TR6 pulls into lane 2.  We look at each other, smiled and the race was on.   Minutes later the soulful song of a State Trooper interrupted the race (I was loosing anyway)so we pulled over.  At the time in NY, they wrote previous infractions on the back of the driver's license.  Trooper says 95mph in a 60 zone, the both of you. The he hands me back my license saying -ah, you've been had by the locals at Evangola.  I'll let you both go this time, no more racing after drills.  It all does even out in the long run.

[Guzzistajohn]

I've gotten off with warnings many times by keeping my hands on the wheel @ 10&2 with my license in my right hand and using terms like "yes sir" and "thank you sir" pretty simple really.

[oldbike54]

I've gotten off with warnings many times by keeping my hands on the wheel @ 10&2 with my license in my right hand and using terms like "yes sir" and "thank you sir" pretty simple really.

 "You two are OK , please move up out of the way" 

 Dusty

[Guzzistajohn]

"You two are OK , please move up out of the way" 

 Dusty

Maybe 60 seconds earlier. We wouldn't have been ok

[oldbike54]

Maybe 60 seconds earlier. We wouldn't have been ok

 More like 10 seconds 

 Dusty

[80CX100]

When I was younger in Calif. you could go to traffic school once a year and get a ticket removed from your record instead of paying the fine or fighting it. I went to a school one day and it was being taught that day by an LAPD officer who started the class by announcing " Today I am going to teach you how to beat every ticket you get from now on." Turns out it was mostly common sense, something many people lack. The things I've learned is #1, you got pulled over because you did something wrong, it's best to be honest and just fess up to it. #2, I know you will never win an argument on the side of a road with an officer who has pulled you over. #3, you almost never will talk your way out a ticket by the CHP, that's their job. When he gets out of his car and approaches you he hasn't decided yet whether you get option #1 or option #2, that is based entirely on your attitude. Most police officers have the job for the respect that comes with the badge and the gun, give it to them. Most people think that when they get into court 3-6 months later that the officer is not going to remember them or anything about the specific incident because they deal with thousands of people and you would be mostly correct. What most people don't know it that after you pull of he pulls out his note book and makes notes about your attitude and that you were cussing him out and being argumentative and belligerent to him. When in court he may not remember you until he pulls out his note book and then you're done. Most people think the judge is on the cops side, but my experience has shown that the judge knows the cop will lie as much to get a conviction as you will to be exonerated. Be respectful of the court, dress appropriately, have witnesses if possible, photos help. after have your story ready in a brief and concise way. My brother and I beat a few tickets this way. After funding a wing of the Van Nuys court house out of my own pocket. I got 11 speeding tickets in one year in my Porsche, some of them over 100mph. Paid them all through the mail because there was no way I wanted to explain to a judge why I was going that fast. They were all cordial stops because I respected the officer doing his job. Then I learned to play the game. My ex wife used to get so pissed at me because the way I drive I was constantly getting pulled over, but I was never getting tickets. She just thought it was unfair. When I was doing the 71 in a 55 and the officer asked if I knew how fast was going I would always add a few miles an hour to what I actually did " I believe I was doing around 73mph." this kind of throws him because he actually only clocked me at 71. He say's I clocked you at "only" 71, now he's thrown off balance because they are used to you arguing that you weren't going that fast. Now he's dealing with someone who is honest and not trying to BS their way out of a ticket, it puts them at ease and less likely to throw the book at you. I look at traffic fines as a fee for the privilege of driving the way I do.
In my latter years I have found that I'm really not in that much of a hurry anymore and in my local area I have quizzed the police to see how fast I can go before they will pull you over, around here it's 15mph over, and that's just the speed to get you pulled over, but not necessarily will it get you a ticket. It gives them the right to pull you over and check for warrants, whether you've been drinking, doing drugs, etc.
I now drive most of the time, not using the pedals, but use the cruise control set at 12mph over the limit and rarely get pulled over now.
One time when asked why I was going over 100mph on Rt14 through the Mojave desert I used a quote I read in Road and track one time, A day like this, a car like this, and a road like this. He let me go with a warning and a smile on his face.
I was chased by the cops on my bike once trying to get away, almost got shot. Learned real quick that is not a wise choice, cost me a lot of aggravation and 3 days in the LA County jail, not fun.

     I must say that some of these examples are a little extreme,,, but out of all the different theories I'm reading on this thread,,, although not the best driving examples,lol,,, this one captures the proper mindset when dealing with a LEO imho.

      I worked for over 30 yrs as a LEO,,, and I hated writing tickets, I literally despised it,,, I was one of those cops that would rather focus my efforts, in putting bad guys in jail. Compared to most,,, I wrote very few tickets,,, I would guesstimate, that out of all the tickets I did write, other than accidents, where I had no discretion,,, at least 90% would have been issued to criminals, or a holes that gave me attitude,,, a LEO may have to smile and nod, as you berate and insult him,,, the ticket book can become the only "street justice" option available. Believe me,,, that is a very heavy hammer, that you do not want swung in your direction,,, especially in this day and age with linked communications to the insurance companies,,, forget the hundreds of dollars in fines,,, it's the thousands of dollars in increased insurance premiums over years,,, that will really hurt.

      If I could make one further suggestion,,, get the LEO to empathize with you,,, if you are hard working, struggling to make ends meet in this crazy world, an otherwise, law abiding, moral, ethical, person,,, let them know that,,,,

       If you happen to be a scamming shyster type and a parasitic drain on mankind,,, you might want to keep that reality to yourself,js.

       Good luck and safe riding

        Kelly

[Rotten Ralph]

All you really need to do is use common sense.

[Kentktk]

I believe that for the average citizen their only contact with the police in a lifetime will be from a traffic citation. It doesn`t really leave very pleasant thoughts of police officers and tends to promote a dislike for the police in general.

[Lee Bruns]

The last ticket I got was for 71 in a 65 on a WIDE ope South Dakota road. I got pulled over before the trooper even got turned around. Helmet off, gloves off, keys removed and hanging on the windshield. Asked if it was ok to reach for my wallet in my left rear pocket, etc. The officer was professional and reasonable, but he was going to write me a ticket, period. As I sat there, while he wrote the ticket, 4o straight piped righteous bros rode past, one by one, saving lives by the thousands. Selective law enforcement

[Gliderjohn]

Back in the 80s my first wife was stopped and wrote up for one mile over on a three lane one way in Wichita. I could not get her to take it to court. That is the one and only time I have ever heard of getting an actual ticket for one over. I am also 99.9% sure she was polite and did not project any attitude .
GliderJohn

[Tom]

     When I was younger in Calif. you could go to traffic school once a year and get a ticket removed from your record instead of paying the fine or fighting it. I went to a school one day and it was being taught that day by an LAPD officer who started the class by announcing " Today I am going to teach you how to beat every ticket you get from now on."

     Turns out it was mostly common sense, something many people lack. The things I've learned is #1, you got pulled over because you did something wrong, it's best to be honest and just fess up to it. #2, I know you will never win an argument on the side of a road with an officer who has pulled you over. #3, you almost never will talk your way out a ticket by the CHP, that's their job. When he gets out of his car and approaches you he hasn't decided yet whether you get option #1 or option #2, that is based entirely on your attitude. Most police officers have the job for the respect that comes with the badge and the gun, give it to them.

     Most people think that when they get into court 3-6 months later that the officer is not going to remember them or anything about the specific incident because they deal with thousands of people and you would be mostly correct. What most people don't know it that after you pull of he pulls out his note book and makes notes about your attitude and that you were cussing him out and being argumentative and belligerent to him. When in court he may not remember you until he pulls out his note book and then you're done. Most people think the judge is on the cops side, but my experience has shown that the judge knows the cop will lie as much to get a conviction as you will to be exonerated. Be respectful of the court, dress appropriately, have witnesses if possible, photos help. after have your story ready in a brief and concise way.

     My brother and I beat a few tickets this way. After funding a wing of the Van Nuys court house out of my own pocket. I got 11 speeding tickets in one year in my Porsche, some of them over 100mph. Paid them all through the mail because there was no way I wanted to explain to a judge why I was going that fast. They were all cordial stops because I respected the officer doing his job. Then I learned to play the game. My ex wife used to get so pissed at me because the way I drive I was constantly getting pulled over, but I was never getting tickets. She just thought it was unfair. When I was doing the 71 in a 55 and the officer asked if I knew how fast was going I would always add a few miles an hour to what I actually did " I believe I was doing around 73mph." this kind of throws him because he actually only clocked me at 71. He say's I clocked you at "only" 71, now he's thrown off balance because they are used to you arguing that you weren't going that fast. Now he's dealing with someone who is honest and not trying to BS their way out of a ticket, it puts them at ease and less likely to throw the book at you. I look at traffic fines as a fee for the privilege of driving the way I do.

     In my latter years I have found that I'm really not in that much of a hurry anymore and in my local area I have quizzed the police to see how fast I can go before they will pull you over, around here it's 15mph over, and that's just the speed to get you pulled over, but not necessarily will it get you a ticket. It gives them the right to pull you over and check for warrants, whether you've been drinking, doing drugs, etc.

     I now drive most of the time, not using the pedals, but use the cruise control set at 12mph over the limit and rarely get pulled over now.  One time when asked why I was going over 100mph on Rt14 through the Mojave desert I used a quote I read in Road and track one time.  "A day like this, a car like this, and a road like this...."  He let me go with a warning and a smile on his face.

I was chased by the cops on my bike once trying to get away, almost got shot. Learned real quick that is not a wise choice, cost me a lot of aggravation and 3 days in the LA County jail, not fun.

I edited for reading continuity.

[Lannis]

 When I was doing the 71 in a 55 and the officer asked if I knew how fast was going I would always add a few miles an hour to what I actually did " I believe I was doing around 73mph." this kind of throws him because he actually only clocked me at 71. He say's I clocked you at "only" 71, now he's thrown off balance because they are used to you arguing that you weren't going that fast. Now he's dealing with someone who is honest and not trying to BS their way out of a ticket ....

Oh yeah?   Doesn't sound much like it ...   

[johnr]

The situation is a little different here in that The Police do not carry guns under normal circumstances (though many if not all have access to them in the trunks of their cars, these tend to be long guns) and there is no expectation that members of the public do either.  Carrying a gun on your person here is a sure way of getting into very deep do-do unless you are a member of the secret service guarding the Queen.  (And no, I absolutely refuse to respond to any comments about that difference in our societies)

Some of our penalties are a bit on the harsh side though.

40kph (25mph) over the limit earns you  instant on the spot licence disqualification for 28 days (that in addition to what the court may hand out later).  This means you are walking from that spot and your vehicle is hauled off to the impound yard at your expense (which you then have to then have to pay some hundreds of dollars to get it out or they will crush it. About $700 from memory.)
 
We also have a demerit points system which I hate. Get 100 of those in a two year period and you have lost your licence for 6 months. 

The last ticket I got was while riding  shop loaner (while the shop tried to destroy my Guzzi for the 3rd time)  It was a Kawasaki ZZR 1200  and was fast.  Cop had been coming the other way and I had just exited a tight bend.

Cop (acquisitory) " I booked you at 116k back there"
Me (surprised) "Is that all?"
Cop (Laughs) "You're a hard thing!"

We are off to a good start.

There followed about a 1/2 hour chat about bikes in general and the Moto GP in particular. He was tight lipped about what be hiding under his own hood.

I got a ticket for the speed of course. They are hot on that one here. $116 instant fine and 15 demerit points.  I managed to talk my way out of (just)  an expired Warrant Of Fitness' (WOF) by virtue of it not being my bike. His position was that it is my (the riders) responsibility to ensure it had one.  That could have been another $400, I think.

Insurance is not mandatory here.

There was also a repercussion from this when it came time to renew my P (Passenger endorsement which when added to a HT (heavy traffic) allowed me to drive a bus.) There was a phone interview with the ministry.

It did occur to me later that given the location,  had I opened the throttle and gone for it when I first saw him the chances are good that he would not have seen which way I went, but 99 times out of 100 that is a very bad idea indeed so I didn't think of it in time, and probably wouldn't have anyway.

Politeness costs nothing.

[Arizona Wayne]

I have found there are good and bad LEOs just like any other profession.

1 time I was leaving on my CX100 for my monthly Coast Guard weekend reserve meeting when I realized I forgot something, pulled off the 4 lane road and rode back to my house to get it.  I lived on a culdesac and heard a car roaring by before I got in my half-plex.  Came back out, got on my bike, barely made it up my culdesac when a CHP car blocked my road to stop me from progressing.  This was all at daylight in the morning.  The LEO asks for my DL, which I give him and at that time it was made of paper and was worn on a corner.  To make my DL last longer I had it laminated @ my Reserve Station for durability.  The LEO writes me up for defacing my DL.  Then he accuses me of doing an illegal U turn and speeding on the way back to my house.   None of which I did.  I never knew where he was while he made these accusations of observing me as it was right @ daylight and seeing was not easy for anyone.  I took my case to court and he was there.  The woman judge(hot blond) asked me if I'd taken care of my DL.  I told her there was nothing wrong with it.   I had taken it out of the lamination and showed it to her.  She had the LEO come over and show her what was wrong with it.     Then I told her I never saw him on the road and did not do any of what he claimed.  The LEO lost his credibility when my DL was not in bad condition and I was found  NOT GUILTY. 

[oldbike54]

 Clean up on aisle WTF . OK , stop with the social and political comments fellas .

 Dusty

[oldbike54]

Huh?

Really? A discernable difference between the US and NZ law enforcement is beyond policy?

Ooooooookkkkkkkk... .

Restated - NZ driving license and moving violation laws seem surprisingly strict to a US citizen.

That OK?

 More to it than that Kev .

 Dusty

[RinkRat II]

 Thanks Dusty, I was wondering how long before the plug was pulled.

   Paul B

[azguzzirep]

Is okay to say, as you are sitting on your mc with your helmet and gloves off, " Howdy, young feller!" as the nice police man walks up to you?

Tom

[PJPR01]

Is okay to say, as you are sitting on your mc with your helmet and gloves off, " Howdy, young feller!" as the nice police man walks up to you?

Tom

I suppose so if you're ready to hear him reply...Wassup Old fart!  :)

[boatdetective]

I'm mostly on the highway trying to get to a job. If the speed limit is 65- i set the cruise control on 70. Problem solved. I'm NEVER the fastest guy around the corner/over the rise, so I don't get pinged.

Years ago, i was rushing to a job and pushed it going through a yellow light. Of course, it turned red as i was midway through the intersection. The blue light came on before i made it all the way through the intersection. I pulled right over. When the officer asked the obligatory, "do you know why i pulled you over?", I came right back with, "Yes officer- i was driving like an asshole."   He checked my record, came back and said- "you were the only stop today who told me the truth- so you get a pass."  My response was to tell him that i recognized he had every right to slam me- I gave him a heart felt thanks, we both smiled, and each went our own way.

[johnr]

"Yes officer- i was driving like an asshole."   He checked my record, came back and said- "you were the only stop today who told me the truth- so you get a pass."  My response was to tell him that i recognized he had every right to slam me- I gave him a heart felt thanks, we both smiled, and each went our own way.

I think that could be a good approach in some circumstances. The message you are sending is that you don't need to be taught a lesson.

[Lannis]

Years ago, i was rushing to a job and pushed it going through a yellow light. Of course, it turned red as i was midway through the intersection. The blue light came on before i made it all the way through the intersection. I pulled right over. When the officer asked the obligatory, "do you know why i pulled you over?", I came right back with, "Yes officer- i was driving like an asshole."   He checked my record, came back and said- "you were the only stop today who told me the truth- so you get a pass."  My response was to tell him that i recognized he had every right to slam me- I gave him a heart felt thanks, we both smiled, and each went our own way.

For me, telling the truth has been the key to a perfect 46-year driving record.

I've gotten three speeding tickets in that time.   I never tried to talk the summonsing officer out of the ticket, just stayed calm and quiet.

Each of the three times I've gone to court, the same thing has happened:

1) The judge asks "How do you plead?"   I say "Not Guilty, your honor - I have a calibration", or "Guilty, your honor".

2) The judge asks the officer what happened.   He tells what happened.   

3) The judge looks at me and says "Do you have anything to say or add?"   I say "No, your honor; that is an accurate description of the event".

4) The judge asks the bailiff for my driving record.   The bailiff flips pages until he gets to 1970, and says "Your honor, this man has nothing on his driving record back to 1970."

5) The judge says "Well, we're not going to sully that kind of record for 13 over the limit.   Dismissed!", bang goes the gavel, and nothing goes into the record ....

This WORKS because everyone else in the courtroom who has been up before me (before "S" in the alphabet) has been Lying like a Big Dog, telling stories that the very cats in the street would never believe, contradicting the police officer, and making my-wife-she, my-dog-it excuses for whatever behavior they're in for, and the judge is tired of hearing it all .....

Lannis