Repowering the 3VL TWIN - Chapter 3: 36 Hours Later

[Muzz]

I will give John a ring to see if he can. He lives about 640kms from me. I don't think I have a photo of the machine showing the breather. I "think " that it enters the motor from the bottom rear of the sump. Will check my photos anyway.

[rodekyll]

I don't know enough about those bikes to follow along.  If I can get a visual reference for what you've got I can see if my planned solution is relavent to your problem.

[John A]

can you run a small air pump off the main shaft to put a vacuum on the crankcase?

[rodekyll]

I don't think the problem is that complicated -- or I completely fail to grasp it.  Let's start a new topic where we can lay it out and solve it.

[rodekyll]

Back to the engine.

I was planning to use a 16mm banjo and bolt to plumb in my breather return line, but there are clearance problems.  So I need to find a 16mm oil return/oil cooler fitting and hose, such as is used on the Breva, Norge, and others.  Anyone got anything?

[rodekyll]

The project is underway today, Wednesday.  I've got the front part of the Breva engine modified.  I changed out the cam.  I installed the two pcv valves in the front cover and cut the new hex key.  I cut the fins from the bottom of the timing cover and shaped the nubs to look less hacked off.  With the cutting and unsightly stains on the timing cover aluminum, I painted it black.  I'm waiting on the crank seal to arrive, and then the cover goes on an that part is done.

Also removed the clutch and "flywheel".  The flywheel is just a light clutch basket with a ring gear.  My lunch weighs more, and I don't eat lunch.  Seriously -- if you want as light a flywheel as possible without resorting to machine work, this is your choice.  I was going to clean up a corroded convert flywheel and use it, but it's too far gone.  I'll pull the unit from the EV engine when I remove it.

The seals should be in tomorrow (were due today).  I'll pull the engine from the trike while I wait for the mail.  With luck I'll be firing it up on Friday.

This is exciting.  I hope the torque converter can handle 25% more power than the 'vert goddess intended.  I hope the Breva engine isn't mortified to death with its assigned duties.  I hope the weather holds.

[Muzz]

Hopefully this is all being recorded with  .

As it is Friday here already that makes it all seem as though today is the day. This will be really interesting. You mods have all come at a great time in regards to John's wee problem. Some really good ideas have popped up in the two threads you have running.

[rodekyll]

A little setback today.  Seals are two days late.  123BEARINGS.com.  I revisited their website and couldn't log in to my account -- website message says there is no record of it.  Chat unavailable.  Tried to call -- mobile number out of Manhattan with no message box.  Website shows offices in several countries, USA included.  Only physical address listed is in France.

But they charged my credit card.

[rodekyll]

Seals came in.  I got the timing cover prepped and went to install it.  Got held up again when I discovered that 4 of the timing cover bolt holes in the breva engine are theaded 8x1.25!  I was expecting 6x1.00.  No way to drill out the cover holes, so I was delayed while a VW shop sent me stepdown studs.  I installed them today, installed the cover, and cleaned up the shop and trike for surgery.

Breva timing chest showing Convert camshaft and stepdown studs in the top two left/right cover bolt holes.



 

The festivities begin in the morning Friday).  The plan is to put the trike on the bike lift with the rear wheels hanging off left/right.  Then I can raise and lower it as desired for good access.  The frame has been designed to do a reversed-reverse crab.  That means I separate it at the front and drop the lowers rather than loosening the rear and raising the upper frame.  The sump and spacer get removed for clearance, and the efi and head pipes go away.  After the drive shaft is removed the transfer case slides easily back far enough to push the engine away from the front drop tubes, and then it rolls out the side like a loop.  This should take a couple hours.  Then I have to scavenge the flywheel and t/c from the hydro and set it up on the breva.  Beyond there be dragons on account of nobody has done this before.  Barring more unexpected crap though, I think I can be starting it sometime late Saturday.

JohnA -- if you're reading this -- I should have taken that gallon of HC-5606A when you offered it.  I'm gonna be short. 

Installed Convert timing cover showing PCV valve mod (x2), special crank seal, and bottom fins removed to clear oil cooler fittings.

[John A]

Ill drop that 5606 in the mail soon as I get it boxed, hopefully youll have it by Saturday. I checked the regs, the flashpoint appears high enough that it can go as a non hazard liquid.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Airplane/Guzzi Guys rock. That's very generous, John.

[John A]

its in the mail, I didn't realize today is Friday so it wont get there till Monday. Chuck remember when it was easy and convenient to send a part counter to counter in the airlines? if it was still that way David would have it this afternoon! If I would have been on the ball I would have sent Guzzidiag cables along

[rodekyll]

Thanks, John.   

I have your spokes right here.  PM me your ph# (rebuilding my contact list) and we'll sort this out.

[rodekyll]

My hands aren't working well today, but I was busy.

removed hydro engine -- no drama.

After reversed-reverse crabbing, the engine comes out over the left lower rail.







transferred flywheel and torque converter to the Breva engine.  Centering the t/c was easier than last time since JohnA lent me a really nice magnetic-base dial indicator and I had the engine properly on its nose.  It still took a while.  But it's 0.002" - close enough.





I decided there was just too much aluminum showing on the engine so I masked it off and rattle-canned black into some of the webbing to break it up.  The timing cover is already black.  No pic of that tonight.

Removed the sump and spacer for clearance during installation.

Installed an oil temp sensor where the oem breather return would be.  Tried to install the oil pressure sensor but the new location doesn't give clearance to the head fins.  I'll need a right-angle fitting.

Looked over how to plumb in the new pcv system.  Discovered the overflow hose was disconnected from the frame barb.  That explains the occasional oil smell.  Need to hit the parts store for hose.  Removed coils and tidied up some wiring.  I need to change the alternator pulley, too.  It spins too fast.  Now is the time.

If tomorrow goes as well as today I should have the breva engine tucked in and mostly plumbed up.  I won't be able to fire it off until the 5606 gets here on Monday.

[Muzz]

You might have already said, but why did you need to replace the Breva camshaft with the Convert?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

You might have already said, but why did you need to replace the Breva camshaft with the Convert?

The camshaft drives the fluid pump on a Convert, the Breva cam lacks the "socket" for the hex piece that connects the cam to the pump.

[Muzz]

The camshaft drives the fluid pump on a Convert, the Breva cam lacks the "socket" for the hex piece that connects the cam to the pump.

Thanks Charlie. I knew there had to be a reason, just didn't know what it was.

Are the cam (valve) timings the same or are the Converts a bit more mellow?

[rodekyll]

Pete says no differences.  The cam itself is smaller.  Before the change the lash was correct. Afterward there was about 1/8" lash on each.

No progress today.  My hands aren't working today.  I feel like a hitchhiking cat -- inefficient on account of no working thumbs.  Joints inflated like they've had some serious hammer work.  Maybe tomorrow.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I feel for you..

[John A]

I understand about body parts not working as advertised. When that happens to me I do "something" every day. it doesn't matter what. Some days all I can do is look at stuff so my brain will work on stuff. Try not to pressure yourself and that's the hard part for me. sometimes I have to lower my standards which I really hate. Keep going, no matter what, you can only do what your body gives you

[rodekyll]

Won't be any progress today. either.  Getting worse, but these flare-ups are temporary.  I did think out solutions to several little things I want to do and found stuff around the oleo ranch to make them happen. 

John has the right idea, and it's my method -- do SOMETHING -- any one thing every day.  Sooner or later I run out of somethings, and the job is done.  So even if I can't hold a wrench I can plot and plan.

[ccoli]

John has the right idea, and it's my method -- do SOMETHING -- any one thing every day.  Sooner or later I run out of somethings, and the job is done.  So even if I can't hold a wrench I can plot and plan.

Don't think I will ever run out of "somethings"

[rodekyll]

That took a couple of days to get over.  Monday the one thing was chasing parts -- the little hose fittings, CV grease, banjo seal rings, etc.  Maddening.  Couldn't get an alternator pulley.  I'd go in, plunk down the pulley and say "this, please, in 3-inch."

"Year, make and model?"
    "can't you just get me a pulley like this on with a 3" diameter?"
"Year, make and model?"
     "It's a pulley.  The round kind.  Just about everything uses it."
"I can't look that up on the computer."

X3 "parts houses."  Why bother going to work, son?  you're not helping anyone.

Tuesday I got one thing done.

I went from here:




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To some of this right here:




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Tinkered in some non-standard details (he said as though anything here is "standard"):





And shut down the shop with it looking like this:





No drama. 

Added fluids today, tidied up the carnage, and cranked it with the ignition off  for oil pressure.  I cracked the head oiler banjo to visually verify flow.  About 1:30 I flipped the kill button to "rock and roll" and it started like it was running yesterday.  Sounds like the LH ex valve is loose, and it sounds altogether different than the hydro.  I backed it off the lift under power and gave it a turn around the back yard before taking a victory lap around the cat and checking for leaks.

Idle is a tad high @ 1400.  Cold oil pressure seems to push 75#+.  Idle synch is poor.  I might have a residual drip from cracking the head oiler, or I might have a sump gasket leak.  Too soon to tell.  Like I said, I only did the one thing.  Dialing it in is another thing.

I said I could do this in a day and a half, and I did.  I'm gonna have a beer.   

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

 

I'm diggin' the rubber knee pads on the tank. What/where are they from?

[Arizona Wayne]

Congrats, Rk, glad you're making progress. 

[Tom H]

Congrats on getting it back together!!!!! 

Tom

[rodekyll]

I'm diggin' the rubber knee pads on the tank. What/where are they from?

Those are 1966 Honda Dream tank pads, reversed, turned upsidedown, and switched l/r.  I glued them on.  In real life they have a grommet fit into the tank side, so I beveled the back to make the tank's contour transition and used some side panel adhesive from the body shop.  That's the tank you sent me, so you understand why chrome wasn't possible.  But the overall theme demanded something there, and they looked like a fit from the ebay pics.

 Hahanda ID'd them and what I'd done and called it out as soon as he saw them.  Good eye, Kevin!  It might have helped that he has several in his shed.

[Muzz]

Great progress there RK.

[RANDM]

Great effort with an excellent result.
Well done RK.

Interested in how it differs in sound seeing your using the
same Cam and I assume Exhaust, guessing the Tappets
might be a little louder?

Maurie.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Those are 1966 Honda Dream tank pads, reversed, turned upsidedown, and switched l/r.  I glued them on.  In real life they have a grommet fit into the tank side, so I beveled the back to make the tank's contour transition and used some side panel adhesive from the body shop.  That's the tank you sent me, so you understand why chrome wasn't possible.  But the overall theme demanded something there, and they looked like a fit from the ebay pics.

 Hahanda ID'd them and what I'd done and called it out as soon as he saw them.  Good eye, Kevin!  It might have helped that he has several in his shed.

Thanks! Might be just the thing I need for a future project.