The problem with single throttle body V7's

[beetle]

I hate those 'black box' things. Ask Roper about the Stelvio engine that was destroyed by a pair of FatDucs.

Disconnecting the lambda will work for n number of bikes, but what about those fitted with aftermarket pipes? Especially the more esoteric two-into-one units? The Pipemasters horrors? The Agostini user who want to leave the dB killers out? That's why I do this.

[Andy1]

Hi Beetle,
I totally agree with what you have said - but your remap was not available last May!  I am sure that your solution will be better, it must be as it will more accurately modify the A/F ratio, and like you say, you will have versions for engines with other mods - but at the moment on my bike with Mistrals (dB killers in place) it works (and was OK when checked on a dyno).
It would be interesting comparing my bikes set up (standard map with lambdas removed) against your reworked map - and seeing if they are similar.

Steve - The stainless bungs are M18 x 1.5 and came with copper washers.  Got them from UK ebay. About £9 / pair I think.

Andy1

[beetle]

I am looking for a volunteer in the northern hemisphere with a V7II. You must have stock bike with factory exhaust. You must be somewhere where it's cold but not too cold to ride. I need the 'start and ride' user who has had the cold start or stumble problem. Must be willing to provide feedback and ride in temperatures around 10C/50F. Must have GuzziDiag and cables.

Any takers? 

[sib]

I am looking for a volunteer in the northern hemisphere with a V7II. You must have stock bike with factory exhaust. You must be somewhere where it's cold but not too cold to ride. I need the 'start and ride' user who has had the cold start or stumble problem. Must be willing to provide feedback and ride in temperatures around 10C/50F. Must have GuzziDiag and cables.

Any takers? 

That could be me.  I meet all the criteria.  My V7II Stone was one of the first ones imported to the US (I received it on 5/10/15), and it has software version 4533V740 installed.  This one came before the notoriously evil 4533V795 and the somewhat improved 4533V796.  I'm generally happy with 4533V740, but I'm always open to possible improvements.  I'm technically conversant enough to have found the correct GuzziDiag software cables and gotten them to work for reading what's in there, but I haven't tried to modify anything.  I might be disqualified for the "where it's cold but not too cold to ride" issue.  It's too cold to ride today, but I rode last Wednesday when the temp got up to 53F.  Sam

[JProdun]

Been riding in under 20F around here with a real feel of 5F and the bike did fine, but only if I let it warm up for a good few minutes while I check the tires and gear up.


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[beetle]

That could be me.  I meet all the criteria. 

You wrote that I sell useless snake oil ECU remedies. Thank you for your kind offer, but I'll decline.

Possibly because you've been too busy selling useless snake oil ECU remedies to unsuspecting folks here.

[beetle]

Been riding in under 20F around here with a real feel of 5F and the bike did fine, but only if I let it warm up for a good few minutes while I check the tires and gear up.

Got GuzziDiag? Are you willing to try a 'start and ride' test?

[sib]

You wrote that I sell useless snake oil ECU remedies. Thank you for your kind offer, but I'll decline.

I think you've just confirmed my suspicions.  Good luck.

[Kev m]

I think you've just confirmed my suspicions.  Good luck.

I doubt it.

[JProdun]

Got GuzziDiag? Are you willing to try a 'start and ride' test?

Problem is i'm with the '14 V7 and have Todd's tool and map. Don't have GuzziDiag either.

I've notified Todd about problems in extreme cold and he has sent me another map. I just haven't got a chance to try it out yet. Just let it sit for a couple minutes and I'm fine.


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[beetle]

Thanks.

Anybody else?

[waxi]

Thanks.

Anybody else?

Not yet. Still below freezing :(

[RANDM]

I think you've just confirmed my suspicions.  Good luck.

WTF? You want to get miffed because an old hand who's
proven he knows what he's talking about doesn't want to
waste his time with someone who openly calls him a
Snake Oil Salesman?

The only "suspicions" you prove like that are about yourself.

Maurie.

[Rich A]

My two snakes (2000 Bassa & Jackal) are both very happy with Beetle's oil.

Me, too.

Rich A

[waxi]

Mark, how is it going with the new map? I saw in the GuzziDiag thread that you are busy on it. Just to let you know... Our weather has got warmer and sunnier (thank God!), so I am available for any help/testing.

[fossil]

The part with the midrange surging I understand. This would be annoying. Thankfully my 2013 V7 Stone shows this not in the least and never did. In fact it´s sweet point is about 4200/min. The part with the cold-bloodedness I do not get. We are talking about an engine construction that is at least 40 years old. An air-cooled Italian engine that started with 350 ccm and now has 750. Even if my bike would not show the same character when it is cold as the other stb´s I would let it warm up before I start to ride. Simply to prolong its life. So it don´t bothers me. I could have bought a Honda. But I did buy the old-fashioned Guzzi instead - even it is comparatively weak and has (neglectable in my opinion) items.

And yes, I will keep the original LaFranconis and the Lambda probes.

[beetle]

OK, I now have a map that allows the stock V7 to 'start & ride' from cold. I need a volunteer with a V7 with factory exhausts to test the map. Not a V7-II, not a V7 classic. The 5 speed single throttle body V7.

Any takers?

[twowings]

^^Jump on this, folks!

[sturgeon]

OK, I now have a map that allows the stock V7 to 'start & ride' from cold. I need a volunteer with a V7 with factory exhausts to test the map. Not a V7-II, not a V7 classic. The 5 speed single throttle body V7.

Any takers?

Sure, I'm in. 2014 V7S, no mods.

[alanp]

I think you've just confirmed my suspicions.  Good luck.

Not sure how that confirms anything.  But the total transformation of my V7II as a result of a beetle map certainly confirms for me that his oil is NOT of the snake variety.  I would have gladly paid many times the asking price for what beetle is selling, and on top of that, his personal service after the sale (helping get it installed correctly) was exemplary. 

[SeanF]

Our morning temperatures are around 55*F/13*Celcius, so maybe not the best test of start from "cold", but I am happy to help.
Currently running the Beetlemap on my stock '17 v7 Special and am 100% happy with it.

[beetle]

Sure, I'm in. 2014 V7S, no mods.

Excellent. Got GuzziDiag and cables?

[beetle]

Our morning temperatures are around 55*F/13*Celcius, so maybe not the best test of start from "cold", but I am happy to help.
Currently running the Beetlemap on my stock '17 v7 Special and am 100% happy with it.

You would have got the update anyway, after it's been tested. I'll send it to you for testing.

[sturgeon]

Excellent. Got GuzziDiag and cables?

Yep, purchased cables and downloaded GD over the winter, installed, half tested. "Half" as in, connected cables to laptop, was able to see a port appear in GD. At the time it was sub-freezing in the garage, so I have yet to connect to the bike, but I don't foresee any problems with that part. After 40+ years as an IT guy, if I have problems the uni will probably revoke my pension and rip the epaulets off my shirt 

[sturgeon]

I've been using Mark's new 1TB map for the past week, weather permitting. When it's not raining, the temps have ranged from 5-15C. My V7S when new was terrible for cold starts. About a year in, I had it in to the dealer for some warranty work and asked him to update to the latest factory map. That was a bit of an improvement, but not perfect by any means. I hadn't had this bike out yet after a few months of winter, so I went for one ride on the OEM map, just to refresh my memory. Then updated to the new map ...

Very noticeable improvement, much smoother idle, no decel popping that I could detect (I deliberately went without earplugs). Smooth linear acceleration right to the top, both at half-ish throttle and wide-open, in all gears. Well, not to the rev limiter in 5th, too many radar traps around here at this time of year and a very strict 'stunting' law with nasty penalties for 50 km/h above the posted limit. But I ran it up to 120 effortlessly. Virtually no surging (see below) at almost any speed. The cold start problem was gone. My only issues were what I thought was a very slight smell of unburnt fuel at a couple of the cold starts, and some surging in 1st gear at very slow speeds when cold (my house is two doors from a stop sign so I don't get out of 1st until after I've stopped and turned the corner). I reported those to Mark and had a tweaked version to try in a couple of hours. No more surging at any speed in any temperature, and I'm 99% sure the unburnt fuel smell is gone. Either that or I've suffered brain damage from sniffing exhaust fumes too many times

I'm a very happy rider, Thanks, Mark 

[DangerDan]

I've been using Mark's new 1TB map for the past week, weather permitting. When it's not raining, the temps have ranged from 5-15C. My V7S when new was terrible for cold starts. About a year in, I had it in to the dealer for some warranty work and asked him to update to the latest factory map. That was a bit of an improvement, but not perfect by any means. I hadn't had this bike out yet after a few months of winter, so I went for one ride on the OEM map, just to refresh my memory. Then updated to the new map ...

Very noticeable improvement, much smoother idle, no decel popping that I could detect (I deliberately went without earplugs). Smooth linear acceleration right to the top, both at half-ish throttle and wide-open, in all gears. Well, not to the rev limiter in 5th, too many radar traps around here at this time of year and a very strict 'stunting' law with nasty penalties for 50 km/h above the posted limit. But I ran it up to 120 effortlessly. Virtually no surging (see below) at almost any speed. The cold start problem was gone. My only issues were what I thought was a very slight smell of unburnt fuel at a couple of the cold starts, and some surging in 1st gear at very slow speeds when cold (my house is two doors from a stop sign so I don't get out of 1st until after I've stopped and turned the corner). I reported those to Mark and had a tweaked version to try in a couple of hours. No more surging at any speed in any temperature, and I'm 99% sure the unburnt fuel smell is gone. Either that or I've suffered brain damage from sniffing exhaust fumes too many times

I'm a very happy rider, Thanks, Mark 

Ive got a '13 V7S and would be willing to pickup cables if you are interested in another tester. Im in Vancouver and i am currently riding days at about 8C in the morning. I start and ride and stall all the time hah

[beetle]

You should get the cables and Guzzidiag anyway. Do that and PM me.

[TimmyTheHog]

Been following this thread a while...looks like it might explain some of my choppy throttle situation.

I have a 2015 V7 and idle always seems to want to jump around when starting cold for a bit. After maybe a min or so, it stabilizes around 1400 RPM.

When riding cold and restart after the bike has been sitting a while, the throttle can be choppy & jerky.

Especially @ lower speed @ 1st gear regardless what temperature the engine is at.

Also, the blipping the throttle can be slow to respond at times...quite annoying if you ask me.

well, did my first service but dealer "forgot" to check if there is a new the ECU map or not as my bike might missed the boat of the updates earlier.

Gonna bring her back when it STOPS RAINING and hopefully my choppy throttle stops if there is any updates.

If not, I will be contacting at least one of ya for flashing her myself lol...

[beetle]

The V7 1TB No-cat exhaust map is done. I need a volunteer to test it for me. It works well on Pete's Racer. I need someone with GuzziDiag who is willing to provide feedback. Must be a 5 speed 1 TB bike with aftermarket exhaust with the dB killers in.

Any takers?

[malik]

I'd be happy to lend a hand to the project, even tho' my critical faculties are not what anyone would call razor sharp and I'll be lending the Special to cousin Mal again, and his in relation to guzzis seem to be even less - yes, he's back. And we could probably drum up some more test mules.

Mal