death of the manual in pickup trucks

[jas67]

WRX Jay!

They don't offer it in a hatchback anymore :-(

After years of wagons and hatches, I don't want to go back to a trunk.  Yeah, many have a fold down seat, but, a miserably small opening in the back that you can't fit anything through.

Plus, a WRX is likely to cause 'bad behavior', if you know what I mean.   

[Kev m]

They don't offer it in a hatchback anymore :-(

After years of wagons and hatches, I don't want to go back to a trunk.  Yeah, many have a fold down seat, but, a miserably small opening in the back that you can't fit anything through.

Focus RS!!!!



 

Plus, a WRX is likely to cause 'bad behavior', if you know what I mean.   

WELL, Yeah, I TOTALLY know what you mean... which is a big part of the reason I went with Jeep instead of a WRX or Focus RS.

The MSRPs were within something like $50 between my Wrangler JKU and a Focus RS when I built them both online. 

[JJ]

The last pick-up I owned in the early 80's was a 1970 Ford XLT Ranger, like this one.  It was an 390 cu. in. automatic. 





It was a good truck but I blew the motor while racing a kid one night in a Camaro, (like the moron that I was back then...), on a surface street in Mesa, AZ!!  

You can always buy a restored "vintage" pick-up with a manual...

[LowRyter]

I own four vehicles:

2014 Honda Accord
2008 Corvette
2004 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
1999 Isuzu Trooper

Only one has an automatic transmission: The truck has a heavy duty Allison.

[rocker59]

I assume that lockup converters are normal items these days, but I don't know if they lock in gears other than high gear.

Yes.  Lockup Torque Converters are the norm.

On GM cars since the  THM350-C of 1981.  On GM trucks, since the THM700R4 of 1982.  Then on to the successor 4L60e and 4L80e transmissions in the 1990s.

[LowRyter]

There's no question that automatics (and automated manuals) give more performance and fuel economy vs manuals.  The new Camaros and Corvettes have 8 speed manual trannies that shift in a millisecond and are computer controlled to downshift and upshift.  They also have manual paddle controls as well.  Ferrari doesn't even have a manual option.

An auto might be faster but it's just not as much fun.  However, some of these cars are so overpowered that it makes no difference in real time driving situation what transmission is hooked to the engine.

[Triple Jim]

Yes.  Lockup Torque Converters are the norm.

Yes, I assumed that, but wonder if they lock in each gear, or just high, or something in between.  My Dodge van auto lock in high only, but it was made in '84.

[bigbikerrick]

After driving a chevy pickup with a straight six stovebolt, and four speed on the floor  "granny gear"  transmission for many years, I appreciate a standard transmission in a pickup, but then again, many trucks these days are used as a family car, as opposed to a work truck..... at least here in Arizona they are. I used to have fun jerking tree stumps out of my yard with that old pickup!!
Rick.

[Devildog]

My 05 Ram 1500 has a 6 sp manual with the V6 engine, believe it's the same drivetrain as Kev's Jeep.
115k miles of hard use, it's a work truck gets loaded heavy, pulls trailers but everything has held up fine. Clutch almost like new. Ram had a reputation for automatic trans failure in the late 90's didn't they?

[PJPR01]

We are selling both our manual transmission TDI's back to VW under the buyback.
Our TDI's are both loaded.

I hope you guys are getting a fair deal on the buy backs Jas. 

I also sold my 2014 VW Passat TDI 6 speed manual back to VW as well a couple months ago and got a fantastic deal on the buy back, I was really pleased, got $7.5K more in pocket than I had shelled out on the car initially.  I do miss the buttery smooth shifting, 45 mpg, sleek dark blue Passat...but there is still the 6 speed 2009 911 for fun.  For a few recent years, Porsche was also only making PDK's, but the client base did push hard and they brought back the manual in a 7 speed, so that's obtainable again. 

Quite honestly, driving a PDK or similar paddle shifting car is boring, especially if you enjoy the engagement of driving, unless you have a stop and go 25 mile commute to contend with every day.  I'm glad to see that there are still stick shift options on various vehicles. 

Enjoy the search...you may find something that is 1 or 2 years old, already has taken the depreciation hit and is a stick...I'd prefer that to buying the car of your dreams but being stuck with a boring automatic., at the very least hopefully it has a Sport option and a Command Shift "manual" automatic option to play with...that's better than nothing!

[sign216]

I am a sedan driver, and companies that offer manuals do so only on the 4 cyl economy models.  For the sporty 6 cyl the only sedan with a manual is BMW, which has been a consistent supporter of them.

I still have my 2006 Mazda sedan in 6 cyl, but it's one of the last years they made that combo.  When this gets old I'll probably switch to BMW, but not without complaints.

[bad Chad]

It is what it is boys/girls(though I still wonder how many girls are here).  Be glad you lived when you did, in 50 years your kids and grand kids will only drive vehicles in vertical reality.  But I suspect technology, and good old consumer demand will come up with something that might even be more fun than motorcycles!

[Kev m]

My 05 Ram 1500 has a 6 sp manual with the V6 engine, believe it's the same drivetrain as Kev's Jeep.
115k miles of hard use, it's a work truck gets loaded heavy, pulls trailers but everything has held up fine. Clutch almost like new.

Two pretty different engines.

The PowerTech 3.7L V6 engine (as it was called) was phased out and replaced by the Pentastar 3.8L V6 under Daimler stewardship:

PowerTech:

It is a 90° V engine like the V8, with SOHC 2-valve heads. It utilizes a counter-rotating balance shaft mounted between the cylinder banks to deal with vibration problems of the 90-degree V6 design, as well as use a 30-degree split pin crankshaft to fire the cylinders every 120 degrees. Output is 210 hp (160 kW) at 5200 rpm with 235 lb·ft (319 N·m) of torque at 4000 rpm.[2] It has a cast iron engine block and aluminum SOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has roller followers, and features fracture-split forged powder metal connecting rods and an assembled reinforced plastic intake manifold.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_PowerTech_engine#3.7_EKG

Pentastar V6

The Chrysler Pentastar engine family is a series of aluminium (die-cast cylinder block) dual overhead cam 24-valve 60° V-6 gasoline engines introduced for model-year 2011 Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep vehicles. It's a VVT motor, but still NA and standard injection (not DI) on most applications. It products 285 bhp (213 kW; 289 PS) at 6400 rpm and 260 lb·ft (353 N·m) at 4800 rpm in the Wrangler with a nice flat torque curve that rivals the old 4.0L straight six. It's available in the Ram (and similar model in the Challenger) these days with a version that puts out 305 bhp (227 kW; 309 PS) at 6400 rpm and 269 lb·ft (365 N·m) at 4175 rpm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Pentastar_engine


For the Wrangler in 2012 the Pentastar replaced the old 3.8L 60° pushrod V-6, like it replaced the PowerTech in the ram for 2013.


Here's a dyno chart comparing the 3.6 Pentastar to the 3.8 pushrod motor. I haven't found a comparison to the PowerTech yet, though I've included a similar dyno chart for the same 3.7L used in the Jeep Libby





Honestly we liked the Pentastar so much in Jenn's Grand Cherokee (WK2) that it I was glad to get one in the Wrangler (JKU).

I also demo'd a Ram 1500 with it and was very impressed.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Actually, the auto vs. manual question is becoming one of "why"? The automated manuals are so good that it's hard to beat them with a manual. In fact, in some cases the manual hobbles the car... Compare the similar AWD hot hatches the Ford Focus RS and VW Golf R. The Ford has the advantage in power, with 350 HP while the VW has just shy of 300 and weight is similar. With manuals the Ford clearly outdrags the VW, but with the VW's automated manual option it's an even race, and the Ford is only available with a manual.

[quota2000]

..

[screamday]

I drove manual pick-ups for almost 25 years (1980 F100 and 1988 F250......both with 5sp manual and 4.9ltr straight six motor). Living in mostly urban areas, a stick shift got to be a pain in the.......knee. The F250 was the worst because the clutch was a little heavier than the F100. Still, driving my 2013 F150, I don't miss the manual shifting. Although, when I first got the new truck, I would, on occasion, search for the clutch pedal when coming to a stop.

[screamday]

..

This reminds me of something that happened with a friend of mine. He had a stroke and lost the use of the his right arm. He saw my F250 in the parking lot of the bowling alley one night and fell in love with it. He asked me if I would sell it to him and I said no way...it still had a lot of miles left on it. So he snickered and said that one day I would come out of the bowling alley and it would be gone. I told him that I wasn't worried about him stealing it as it had a stick shift and he couldn't drive it. We both had a good laugh and the subject never came up again.

[redrider90]

I love my 4X4 95 Nissan in granny gear when pulling up smaller trees.

[Triple Jim]

Like this?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIMJsqQy4lQ

[jreagan]

If you go back to the times when you could get manuals, the difference is towing capacity.  Automatics seem to have much larger capacity and torque.

[sign216]

Actually, the auto vs. manual question is becoming one of "why"? The automated manuals are so good that it's hard to beat them with a manual. In fact, in some cases the manual hobbles the car... Compare the similar AWD hot hatches the Ford Focus RS and VW Golf R. The Ford has the advantage in power, with 350 HP while the VW has just shy of 300 and weight is similar. With manuals the Ford clearly outdrags the VW, but with the VW's automated manual option it's an even race, and the Ford is only available with a manual.

I'll admit that the R+D put into automatics has put them equal or above manuals in performance.  No equal in driving enjoyment, or repair costs.  Working on an auto trans is not a cheap prospect.

And another point; I can't believe they allow automatics in car racing now.  It used to be part of a racer's skill, in managing the controls to eek out the best performance.  Learning heel-toe pedal use, etc.

[Penderic]

Where are you gonna put the stick?

 



 

[Triple Jim]

And another point; I can't believe they allow automatics in car racing now.  It used to be part of a racer's skill, in managing the controls to eek out the best performance.  Learning heel-toe pedal use, etc.

I think racing should allow technology to evolve and improve.  When manuals were faster, they were used.  If they can make autos faster, then good for them. 

Pro bicycle racing started to see new technology in bike frames decades ago, but it was feared that only teams with huge sponsorship could afford the new stuff, so a rule was made that requires a traditional "diamond" frame.  This not only prevented racing from developing new frame technologies, but since it trickles down to amateur racers and touring riders, there is less for everyone.

I do get the same feelings you have at times though.  I learned 20 words per minute worth of Morse Code to get my amateur radio license, and it bothers me a little that you don't need to know it at all to get even the highest level license now.  Logic tells me not to worry about it.   

[Rough Edge racing]

  Pro stock drag car... it's a stick shift class, the driver uses the clutch for off the line, not needed for shifting...1500 HP V8 .. Skip ahead a few minutes to avoid the boring burnout....

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=932b6aLnerM

         

[Triple Jim]

That's some pretty wild straight cut gear noise on the slowdown.   

[sign216]

I do get the same feelings you have at times though.  I learned 20 words per minute worth of Morse Code to get my amateur radio license, and it bothers me a little that you don't need to know it at all to get even the highest level license now.  Logic tells me not to worry about it.   

 I got my amateur radio license a couple of yrs ago, no Morse code required.  The test wasn't a pushover, but not nearly as hard as having to learn code.

[Triple Jim]

Strangely, I very much enjoyed the learning process with code.  First translating each letter, then knowing them automatically, and finally just hearing words forming.  One day I was working in the shop listening to a couple guys talking by code, and realized it seemed like I was hearing their voices, rather than beeps.

[sign216]

Strangely, I very much enjoyed the learning process with code.  First translating each letter, then knowing them automatically, and finally just hearing words forming.  One day I was working in the shop listening to a couple guys talking by code, and realized it seemed like I was hearing their voices, rather than beeps.

Holy &*%$#, when people start talking in Morse, and you start understanding them like it's conversation, that is a new reality.

Does sound like a good skill.  Unfortunately amateur radio is passing away, even the simple voice radio.  My local electronic shop recently stopped carrying the kits. 

[redrider90]

Holy &*%$#, when people start talking in Morse, and you start understanding them like it's conversation, that is a new reality.

Does sound like a good skill.  Unfortunately amateur radio is passing away, even the simple voice radio.  My local electronic shop recently stopped carrying the kits.

All it takes is a nice big fat hurricane or earthquake and then you'll see the interest in amateur pick up in that area.

[NC Steve]

I don't think that anyone's mentioned the fact that the large majority of folks under 30 have never driven a manual transmission, never learned the process, and have no interest or need to know how to do so now. They're the people buying most new vehicles these days, as old farts like us tend to keep our cars & trucks longer, usually learned to drive in stick shift vehicles, and have a nostalgic "need" to keep that tradition alive.