98 EV Electrical Problems

[screamday]

I'm getting near the end of my patience with the bike. I have been having electrical problems, on and off, for over the last 2 - 3 years. The bike has been pretty much sitting most of that time. I have had Wayne look at it and he was stumped. The problem just is not consistent enough for an amateur like me to trace the problem. The problem doesn't even stay around long enough to trace the problem.

I originally had problems with the starting the bike. Hit the starter button and everything would go dead. Nothing was working. No lights, no fuel pump....nothing.... .for a couple of tries. Then after about the third try the bike would come to life and run like nothing was wrong. Took it to Wayne's a couple of times. The first time the problem would not rear it's ugly head, so nothing was accomplished except some quality time with quality people. The second time the problem stayed around long enough to trailer it to Wayne's and push it into his garage for examination. Wayne did his thing found a bad relay......one which we replaced on the previous adventure but he wasn't satisfied that he had found the problem. I should mention, Wayne took apart the starter button, the starter solenoid, the kill switch and checked all the relays.

The bike did start and run and worked for about 6 weeks. Then, one day on the way home from work, I pulled into the driveway and the bike just shut off. Nothing......simila r to above no lights, no fuel pump....nothing. Just like pulling the plug on an appliance. Dead stop. Waited about 5 minutes and it started up and I was able to pull it into the garage. Went to take it to work the next morning, it started up and I got it on the road and made one right turn and it quit. Again started up after about 5 minutes. Pulled it back into the garage and it has been sitting there for the last 6 months.

This weekend I checked all the ground connections and bought a new battery....just because the bike hadn't been ridden much in the last 4 years and I figured, why not. Yesterday it started right up after the battery install like it had never been sitting. Today I decided to go for a spin to see how far I would get. Well......I got about 1/2 a mile form the house before it shut off....just like before. Nothing again.....completel y dead. So I called the wife to come and get me but while I was on the phone, a total of about 5 minutes, I tried to start the bike and it started right up. Got it back to the garage and locked it up.

I'm at a loss at the moment. Open to all suggestions. Anybody interested in buying a slightly used 98 EV with 51,000 miles on the clock? Make an offer. Obviously won't be a fly and ride purchase as it would be a long ride home at 1/2 mile increments. 

[twhitaker]

If your bike has the same ECU as my '96, the one about the size of a Tupper-ware sandwich box, your niggling problem might be the same as mine was. The long connector is secured to the ECU at one end with a screw and the other with a notch. That notch came loose so I rigged a string in a manner that pulled the connection together. Cheap and worth a try.

[troyhamilton]

i thought ECU problem too.

[John A]

If the rest of the bike is in good nick, I'd put a new wire harness on it. Otherwise part it out. I don't have to tell you intermittent electrical problems are real bad.

[Tom]

Good suggestion from Terry.    You might want to check the female ends of all the pins in any gang connector.  The stuff does wear out.  Had some real problems with the ignition switch dying.

[twhitaker]

You didn't say anything about the ignition switch. ??? I'm having one replaced on the Centauro.

[guzzisteve]

Mine just was doing same thing and I found it, 4 pin plug from harness to ignition switch has a bad or loose pin. The ign switch had a bad post and I just put it to the next one w/fuse. That was 9 yrs ago and still working.
The harness plug I put foam in between the 4 wires and wrapped it w/lectrical tape, working fine since. You can get the plug & pins for under $10 and it's on my list.

[Tom]

Definitely check the ignition switch.  Get a multi meter and see if juice is getting up to the switch first.  Turn key on the see if you have juice through the switch.  Couple of bikes I used a universal one from O'Reilly's. 

[twhitaker]

and it's on my list.

This list you speak of?

[guzzisteve]

Stuff to order if it can't be rigged again.   Ign switch is over $200

[rodekyll]

It reads like the obvious stuff has been gone over.  It's going to take blind luck, eyes-on during an event, or a very methodical step through to find it.  If you haven't solved it by the time I get out your way, I'm for hire.   

[Tom]

Their bbq is sweeter. 

[Tom H]

Two symptoms, two thoughts.

Hit starter button and the power goes out... Many times this is due to a bad battery connection. My old truck would do this at times. Clean the battery terminals and all was fine for a bit.

Turned into the driveway and it died. Turned RIGHT and it died..... Maybe a bad connection that may be found with a right turn of the bars??? If the bike is running and you tern left all is well, then turn right and it dies. This may help narrow down where the bad wire is?

Hope this helps,
Tom

[Kiwi_Roy]

Ignition switch or battery connections, ground connection is about the only 3 things that will take out everything and loss of headlight.
Look at the sketch you will see the tail light is on a different switch contact.

I made this simplified sketch to show the EV fuse and relay area, from under the side cover you can check most circuits

At the top of fuse F3 F4 you can test for Voltage coming back from the ignition switch, I suspect you will have nothing there.
Then check the ECU fuses F5 F6 (bottom or relay socket) if you have power there it points to the ignition switch, If you have no power at F5 F6 it's battery or main ground.

I think the 98 EV has the main ground connecter to the chassis steel under the LH (gear side) side cover, take it off there and connect it to a gearbox bolt or under starter bolt.

Scrape the battery terminals and smear them with Vaseline, same for the main ground (now on the gearbox)

Learn how to jumper around the ignition switch under the side cover and you will never be stranded. You have 3 different feeds from the battery under the side cover, theu can be coupled together with a wire jammed in the fuse holder.
Always have a screwdriver to get the covers off.

Always carry a test light, I like to use an LED tail light, it will always act as an inspection light and doesn't have the problem of filament breaking but you have to be aware of polarity so have a clip on the negative to clip on the chassis.

I'm sure Wayne will agree, intermittent problems are the hardest to find.
 

[screamday]

Thank for all the replies guys. This is really frustrating. Especially for someone who is not well versed in trouble shooting electrical problems. I'll try to address some of the individual answers:

If your bike has the same ECU as my '96, the one about the size of a Tupper-ware sandwich box, your niggling problem might be the same as mine was. The long connector is secured to the ECU at one end with a screw and the other with a notch. That notch came loose so I rigged a string in a manner that pulled the connection together. Cheap and worth a try.

Terry....that's what I originally found when I first encountered this problem. I took the seat off to do the usual inspections and found the giant connector was skewed slightly. So I snapped that back in place and hoped that was the problem. So far that did not change anything. The connector may still not be fully seated. I will check that again.

If the rest of the bike is in good nick, I'd put a new wire harness on it. Otherwise part it out. I don't have to tell you intermittent electrical problems are real bad.

John, the bike is in great shape as it's been kept in a garaged since I've owned it.......since 1998. Re-wiring it would be beyond my capabilities. I've thought about parting it out but then I would have a garage full of motorcycle parts instead of a rolling motorcycle.

You didn't say anything about the ignition switch. ??? I'm having one replaced on the Centauro.

Definitely check the ignition switch.  Get a multi meter and see if juice is getting up to the switch first.  Turn key on the see if you have juice through the switch.  Couple of bikes I used a universal one from O'Reilly's. 

When Wayne did his diagnosis, I seem to remember we took the switch out and he dissembled and cleaned it. I agree, the switch could be the culprit and I may just get a new one to give it a try. That would be about the extent of my diagnosis.

Mine just was doing same thing and I found it, 4 pin plug from harness to ignition switch has a bad or loose pin. The ign switch had a bad post and I just put it to the next one w/fuse. That was 9 yrs ago and still working.
The harness plug I put foam in between the 4 wires and wrapped it w/lectrical tape, working fine since. You can get the plug & pins for under $10 and it's on my list.

Well.....that could be. Which plug would this be? Again.....the collective consensus seems to be the ignition switch.

Turned into the driveway and it died. Turned RIGHT and it died..... Maybe a bad connection that may be found with a right turn of the bars??? If the bike is running and you tern left all is well, then turn right and it dies. This may help narrow down where the bad wire is?

Hope this helps,
Tom

Well.....the last event I was just going straight. I was pulling up to a traffic light and slowing when it cut out. Fortunately there was a drive way to a restaurant right there and I just coasted in.

Ignition switch or battery connections, ground connection is about the only 3 things that will take out everything and loss of headlight.
Look at the sketch you will see the tail light is on a different switch contact.

Roy....as usual, thanks for all the great information. Just wish I was better at deciphering it. I really need to take a week vacation and figure it out. May I can get some kind of family care leave from work. 

It reads like the obvious stuff has been gone over.  It's going to take blind luck, eyes-on during an event, or a very methodical step through to find it.  If you haven't solved it by the time I get out your way, I'm for hire.   

Come on......I ready for help. 

[Wayne Orwig]

At one time, when it was working and we could not reproduce any problem,  I disassembled the ignition switch. It was spotless. But I still cleaned and lubed it. Still can't rule it out of course, but I don't think that is it.

Another time, it failed to crank over. I carefully poked around (I didn't want it to start working). I found the relay to the starter solenoid had failed. I am 100% certain, that relay contact was bad. And that relay had been replace not long before. That relay contact had a small burn mark on it, nothing really unexpected. But the contact was definitely bad. Replacing that relay brought the bike back to life.

It is like it suddenly has a dozen intermittents. Very odd.

[John A]

one of the reasons I suggested a new harness was that you would touch and check every component of the harness. unless you have a place to do it, I wouldn't attempt it. very big job. if its a "snowbank" job, Id get Rodekyll to do it. anyway the bike is basically worthless if you cant trust it.

[screamday]

......anyway the bike is basically worthless if you cant trust it.

Pretty much my sentiments. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

You might change out the harness and still it cuts out, what then?
Add some troubleshooting aids like a couple of small lights at critical points to let you know the power is there.
Fuse 3 & 4  one wire back from ignition switch
Stand relay 30 or the petcock fuse, other wire back from ignition switch.

I have often pointed out how a small lamp attached to the petcock fuse is halfway through the wiring and proves up to the ECU around a bunch of troublesome systems, you can narrow a fault down at a glance also great for finding a bad contact because it flashes. For example a bad stand switch will cause it to flash or go dim.

Learn how to bypass stuff like the ignition switch, the main requirements are power at the two ECU fuses and to the petcock fuse that's all the bike needs to keep running once started.

Wayne serviced the ignition switch but it could still be broken wires in the loom where they flex, pull hard on each one to see if they give, check the connector where they plug into the loom.

Provide a bypass switch from battery to the petcock fuse to feed power to the ECU in an emergency.

Learn how to jump the starter with a bit of wire.

Learn how to use a test light to check all the fuses and relay socket terminal 30 for power.

[John A]

That's what I was wondering too, what if you change out the harness and it's the same. Or if you are deep into it and you find it and have to decide to continue or put it back together, not being sure it's the only problem. I like Kiwi Roy's approach to electrical gremlins.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Screamday,
                   I sent an e-mail to your address of 2014
Perhaps discuss it with Wayne if you can.
Roy

[rodekyll]

PM me about this.  I'm in Washington right now doing some paperwork, but I'll be back in TX in a couple of weeks.  Right now I have things to finish at the Oleo Ranch, a Manx Dune Buggy (yeah, I speak Manx -- still have the shop smock) with rodent-chewed wiring also in Lindale, and an as-yet undefined job in AR.  If the problem isn't solved by the time I'm rolling, I'd be happy to include this on my route.

[screamday]

Screamday,
                   I sent an e-mail to your address of 2014
Perhaps discuss it with Wayne if you can.
Roy

Got it......thanks again.  I'll give it go and see what happens.

[Wayne Orwig]

Got it......thanks again.  I'll give it go and see what happens.

Bring it over. Park it in my garage. Let me ride it a while. I will try to exorcise the gremlins. I am convinced it is multiple issues, which makes it a nightmare to track. That relay was absolutely bad. And it wasn't an old relay. Why? Did some corrosive vapors get into the system and maybe damage a number of contacts?

[JoeB]

FWIW My 98 had similar symptoms. Going over things I found a spot on a sensor wire that appeared to be rubbed through. The one behind the right throttle body that needs metallic debris cleaned off every leap year or so. Meter showed it was fine but tactile exam found the flaw. Figured out some idiot, me, didn't pay enough attention to its position when replacing some fuel line.

[screamday]

FWIW My 98 had similar symptoms. Going over things I found a spot on a sensor wire that appeared to be rubbed through. The one behind the right throttle body that needs metallic debris cleaned off every leap year or so. Meter showed it was fine but tactile exam found the flaw. Figured out some idiot, me, didn't pay enough attention to its position when replacing some fuel line.

Hmmmm........thanks Joe. Which sensor is this? Is this the pickup at the flywheel?

[JoeB]

Hmmmm........thanks Joe. Which sensor is this? Is this the pickup at the flywheel?

Yep, flywheel sensor behind right throttle body. Should be cleaned off every so often as it picks up some debris from the flywheel.
Another one, cam sensor, up on the left side of the engine. The cam sensor runs wet so usually doesn't need any attention. Connections for them under tank, fairly accessible. If you decide to put a meter on them should be 680 ohms + or - 10% around 70 degrees F.
Mine metered fine but feeling along the wire I found a slice through the coating.

[Wayne Orwig]

You mentioned that at 1/2mile, it was completely dead. Did the starter crank it over? If it did NOT crank over, then it is NOT the sensors. If it DID crank over, it might be a sensor.

[screamday]

You mentioned that at 1/2mile, it was completely dead. Did the starter crank it over? If it did NOT crank over, then it is NOT the sensors. If it DID crank over, it might be a sensor.

No power.....nothing.. ...nada....niente. Completely dead.

[rodekyll]

As though the battery was disconnected?