98 EV Electrical Problems

[guzzisteve]

Yea------http://www.cycleterminal.com/amp-superseal-connectors.html

[screamday]

Yea------http://www.cycleterminal.com/amp-superseal-connectors.html

Cool.....thanks! Now all I have to do is determine which connector is bad. Should be easy.......there's only 5 there. 

[screamday]

OK....I've narrowed it down to the connector with the red arrow. I can cause the on and off problem just by wiggling the connector while holding it.

OK.....I now think the bad connection is in the connector without the arrow. Had a hard time isolating the two because they a tied together pretty tightly. But, I can't really isolate individual wires to find the loose one.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Watch the wires as you turn the bars from lock to lock, do any of the wires bend excessively?
Pull hard on each wire, if one is broken under the insulation the wire will stretch.

[StuCorpe]

As someone else pointed out the white wire on the left top really looks suspicious.

[twowings]

You're SO close to fixing this and having a full-time bike again...good luck!!

[screamday]

Well....gave up for today. Could not find any real loose wire in the connectors. Also, still not 100% sure which connector is the problem. But, at least it's down to two connectors out the many it could be. To be continued tomorrow.

[Tom H]

Now that you have it narrowed down to one of the connectors that when wiggled causes the power to shut off.

While holding the connectors like you are in the picture, as Kiwi mentioned, try tugging/wiggling/moving from side to side until the power shuts off again.

That should narrow down the wire.

Another thought, either before or after moving the wires. Try unplugging the connector, inspect for corrosion, and plug back together. Then move the connector around like you did when you found that one of them caused the power to cut out. Could be just this simple??

Good luck,
Tom

[twowings]

IIRC, everything shuts down when the problem occurs?

Wouldn't that narrow the choices to the wire that supplies the power? 

[Chuck in Indiana]

OK....I've narrowed it down to the connector with the red arrow. I can cause the on and off problem just by wiggling the connector while holding it.

Dang! I thought I was going to get to buy it.. cheap. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Well....gave up for today. Could not find any real loose wire in the connectors. Also, still not 100% sure which connector is the problem. But, at least it's down to two connectors out the many it could be. To be continued tomorrow.

Now that you are really close I suggest you attach a test light under the side cover, that's where the wires connect to the bikes brain.
I think you will find the stand relay is loosing power but it might be another point. As you wiggle the bad wire the test light will flash, the flashing light is a lot more visual than using a meter.

Good Luck

[screamday]

While holding the connectors like you are in the picture, as Kiwi mentioned, try tugging/wiggling/moving from side to side until the power shuts off again.

Another thought, either before or after moving the wires. Try unplugging the connector, inspect for corrosion, and plug back together. Then move the connector around like you did when you found that one of them caused the power to cut out. Could be just this simple??

Good luck,
Tom

The problem is the connectors are so tightly bound together. Moving one just a little also moves the wires connected to the other. I unplugged both connectors and inspected them for corrosion but everything looked clean.

Dang! I thought I was going to get to buy it.. cheap. 

Make an offer.....some assembly now required. 

IIRC, everything shuts down when the problem occurs?

Wouldn't that narrow the choices to the wire that supplies the power? 

Yes....I would think so. I tried reading Carl Allison's wiring diagram but the one for the 98 EV on Greg Bender's site has the 15M computer. I was sure that Carl had an updated version with the P8 box and I had a copy but I cannot find it. It might have went south in the last computer upgrade.

Now that you are really close I suggest you attach a test light under the side cover, that's where the wires connect to the bikes brain.
I think you will find the stand relay is loosing power but it might be another point. As you wiggle the bad wire the test light will flash, the flashing light is a lot more visual than using a meter.

I unplugged the stand safety switch under the tank shortly after I got the bike and have never used it. Since I don't have a test light I am going to see if I can get one somewhere today. What am I looking for?

General question: Is there a way to pull the wires out of the connector? Do those connectors split in two pieces for access to the wires? Inquiring minds need to know.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Test Light - any small 12 Volt bulb with a couple of wires attached.
An LED lamp is good to carry on the bike because it has no glass or filament to break but an incandescent is fine around the garage.
Solder a pair of wires directly to the lamp or use a socket, connect one wire to the chassis under a small screw and test the lamp first by
touching the other wire on the battery. Something like a spare turn signal will work also.
I have seen lots of 12 Volt test lamps in the auto shops that are just flimsy junk, you need something reliable or it makes the job even tougher.
Good Luck.

[screamday]

OK.....I think I've narrowed it down to this green wire (the one with the yellow tape). I can initiate the off and on sequence if I wiggle this wire. The wire does not feel loose and it will only happen if I hold the connector parallel or flat to the frame (and if I'm facing South, kneeling on my left knee and holding my right leg in the air  ). It is harder to get it to shut off by twisting the connector alone. However, I can consistently shut the power off by holding the connector in my hand and moving the wire. So.....how do I repair this? I have to ask again, is there a way to take these connectors apart?

[Tom]

Easiest way is put a jumper in.  Cut the wire out of the gang connector.  Put a molex connector on the end.  OR to fix as some would do.  Get the tool that is for that type bullet ends.  Get a packet of those connector end and go through the gang connector checking each one.  Anyone can correct.

It's under the tank so I did the jumper with connectors.  It solved a multitude of sins with the ignition switch going out too.  It was all with the main power leads going through the harness up to the switch.  The pin connectors going into the gang connector were corroded but you couldn't see it.  A probe test light helped.

[pat80flh]

Those look a lot like old GM "WEATHER PACK" connectors, there is a small tube that goes over the terminal, which pushes in the retainers, and allows the terminal and wire to be pulled from the connector. 

  I think I would cut the wire about  3 inches from the connector on both sides, and solder in a new piece of wire, bypassing the connector.  As a temporary test, although if it fixes it I'd be tempted to leave it as is.
 
  "There is nothing as permanent as a temporary solution."

[Tom H]

Now that you have found the wire that seems to be causing the problem.

Pull that connector apart and see if the female metal connector on that wire looks like it is bent open compared to the other metal connectors. Might even give the female connector a squeeze with needle nose pliers or the like, re-connect plastic connectors and try the wire again. Could have been as simple as that metal female pin was loose.

Maybe someone here knows for sure, I have never taken one of these apart......The metal wire connectors should be held into the plastic housing with two to three spring loaded tabs. On connectors that i have worked with.....there is a service tool that looks like a metal tube that you slid down the pin and it compressed the spring tabs. A watch repair type small screwdriver should be able to "work" the pins in as well.

If the metal connector/end of wire is shot, any ideas on a place to get one?? Maybe rent the proper crimper?

Hope this helps and congrats on hopefully finding the cause!!!!
Tom

[Kiwi_Roy]

You don't actually need a connector there, you are not going to pull the bike apart are you. Just run a wire around the connector and use a couple of crimp links. Before you do that pull hard on the wire if it's broken under the insulation it will stretch, you may be able to fix it with a connector right there.
Solder and heat shrink is another way of fixing it Turn the bars from lock to lock and take note if the wires bend in one spot, copper work hardens and snaps, try to move the bend spot to a different spot in the loom.

[rodekyll]

You can disassemble the plug by removing the plastic bit on the end where the wires go in.  Then pull the wires out one at a time.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes....I would think so. I tried reading Carl Allison's wiring diagram but the one for the 98 EV on Greg Bender's site has the 15M computer. I was sure that Carl had an updated version with the P8 box and I had a copy but I cannot find it. It might have went south in the last computer upgrade.
 

Hey, we didn't say we were going to make it easy for you.
Yes the EV doesn't really match Carls drawing
It's a bit like the 2000 Jackal, 6 relays and very similar around the sidecover wiring but it has a P8 like the 96 1100i
You are well on the way to solving it I think.
I sent you a sketch last week showing that all the fuses and relays should be alive across the top when the key is on so if you use your test light and find it's missing at one point then you trace it back the other way.

Faced with a failure on the road it's a matter of getting power to the petcock fuse and the bike will run.
 
This bike will turn you into an electrician, by the time you have it sorted nothing will phase you out LOL

[Tom H]

One more thing I was thinking about.

You could take a test light or multimeter and put one lead to ground. While the connector is still together, stick the other lead into one end of the connector where the wire goes in at the wire in question and look for power. Then wiggle the wire and see the bike turn off. If the light/meter still shows power, try the other side of the connector and repeat. This should tell you which side of the connector is loosing power.

Good luck again!!
Tom

[screamday]

You can disassemble the plug by removing the plastic bit on the end where the wires go in.  Then pull the wires out one at a time.

Thanks....that's what it looked like. I'll probably give that a go before I put in a jumper wire.

One more thing I was thinking about.

You could take a test light or multimeter and put one lead to ground. While the connector is still together, stick the other lead into one end of the connector where the wire goes in at the wire in question and look for power. Then wiggle the wire and see the bike turn off. If the light/meter still shows power, try the other side of the connector and repeat. This should tell you which side of the connector is loosing power.

Good luck again!!
Tom

I give that a try also but I'm pretty certain the side of the connector that I show in the picture is the problem.

You don't actually need a connector there, you are not going to pull the bike apart are you. Just run a wire around the connector and use a couple of crimp links. Before you do that pull hard on the wire if it's broken under the insulation it will stretch, you may be able to fix it with a connector right there.
Solder and heat shrink is another way of fixing it Turn the bars from lock to lock and take note if the wires bend in one spot, copper work hardens and snaps, try to move the bend spot to a different spot in the loom.

A jumper wire may be my best bet but given my limited abilities and past experiences repairing electrical connections, that link would always be suspect. That said, it sill might be the best way to fix this.

Hey, we didn't say we were going to make it easy for you.
Yes the EV doesn't really match Carls drawing
It's a bit like the 2000 Jackal, 6 relays and very similar around the sidecover wiring but it has a P8 like the 96 1100i

This is the diagram I was thinking about. I think this is correct for the P8 brain box. http://guzzitek.org/schemas_electriques/gb/1100/1100EV_P8_1997.gif

[John A]

Some clarification please. The original poster has asked several times how to take the connectors apart, I am assuming he means split them at the parting line, since there is not a picture of them split. Usually there is a tab that needs to be manipulated to release the two halfs. It's been so long since I've fooled with that particular pair that I don't remember. Can anybody enlighten us?

[rodekyll]

John, I read it to mean the OP wants to pull wires from a separated connection and needs to disassemble a connector half to access the wires.  Prying the ends of the bottom cap away from the locking tabs on the connector slab will allow him to open up the connector.  The trick is to keep track of the wire positions in case more than one at a time is removed.

[screamday]

John, I read it to mean the OP wants to pull wires from a separated connection and needs to disassemble a connector half to access the wires.  Prying the ends of the bottom cap away from the locking tabs on the connector slab will allow him to open up the connector.  The trick is to keep track of the wire positions in case more than one at a time is removed.

That's what it looked like to me. I started to experiment but didn't have a good plan for keeping track of the wire locations. Also figured I'd better ask first and act later. Thanks RK!

[Dharma Bum]

Where is the ignition switch in that last diagram?

[screamday]

Where is the ignition switch in that last diagram?

Item 17 at the top of the page "Starter Switch".

[John A]

OK I think I'm following along now. That green wire connects fuse F2 to the Ignition switch "on" if I read the diagram correctly. "B" connecter, "A" terminal. If that is true it should not be the problem, F2 feeds parking lights & turn signals. wrong wiring diagram, this one is for a 15M

[John A]

What all shuts off when you make it fail? I think you are close so don't go insane yet. that green wire goes to the 4 hole connector of the ignition switch. are you sure its a good contact through the "B" connector? they are labeled with a letter on the harness sleeve near the connector. the wires are labeled with a raised letter on the connector where the wire goes in

[screamday]

What all shuts off when you make it fail? I think you are close so don't go insane yet. that green wire goes to the 4 hole connector of the ignition switch. are you sure its a good contact through the "B" connector? they are labeled with a letter on the harness sleeve near the connector. the wires are labeled with a raised letter on the connector where the wire goes in

John.....everything shuts off as if the battery were disconnected. And, as far as going insane......to late.