Author Topic: Monza annual inspection  (Read 11474 times)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2017, 08:45:31 AM »
It's much better to do this stuff on the side of the road after a 500 mile day on a poorly maintained two lane hi way 4 miles outside of East Alton, Il . As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :evil:

True, true. At night. In the rain. :smiley: 
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Diploman

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2017, 10:17:52 AM »
This is an epic thread that will serve the owners of early smallblocks (and vintage BB's) for years to come.  A bookmark essential.  We are indebted to you, Chuck, many thanks.

Will
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Offline charlie b

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2017, 11:42:51 AM »
Chuck, couple of things I learned from Matt Forslund.  Angle drives for tach and speedo.  Get some small hose clamps and put them over the part that cracks.  And make sure to put some grease in the engine end of the cables beneath the boots (I knew that but didn't bother to do it one time :(  ).  Ignition switch nuts.  He has them.  Chrome or black.  Don't know where he gets them.  He also has the nuts for the speedo trip odometer reset knob.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2017, 04:21:52 PM »
Chuck, couple of things I learned from Matt Forslund.  Angle drives for tach and speedo.  Get some small hose clamps and put them over the part that cracks.  And make sure to put some grease in the engine end of the cables beneath the boots (I knew that but didn't bother to do it one time :(  ).  Ignition switch nuts.  He has them.  Chrome or black.  Don't know where he gets them.  He also has the nuts for the speedo trip odometer reset knob.

Thanks for that, Charlie..  :thumb:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline RinkRat II

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2017, 04:51:42 PM »
 This is great info Chuck, Thanks! I have the skills, tools 


where can i upload pictures to share for free


 and now the knowledge to tackle the Sport :thumb:    :evil:



       Paul B :boozing:
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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2017, 05:58:09 PM »
Thanks for the thread, brings back sweet memories of my Monza.

I remember putting used air shocks from a kawasaki gt550 (costing a fiver) and liking the ride. :)

Any low tech improvements on the horizon?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 06:01:52 PM by Steph »
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2017, 07:46:03 PM »
Thanks for the thread, brings back sweet memories of my Monza.

I remember putting used air shocks from a kawasaki gt550 (costing a fiver) and liking the ride. :)

Any low tech improvements on the horizon?

Well, John A's transmission breather mod is on the schedule. Most of the stuff that really *needs* to be done to the old small blocks has already been done by the original keeper.  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline charlie b

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2017, 06:02:49 AM »
Thanks for that, Charlie..  :thumb:

So, in case I put foot in mouth (which I have done so many times before :)  ), are the V50 ign switches the same size as the std switches?  If not then I don't know if Matt has them or not.  But, since he has collected parts from many of the now defunct dealers he may have them anyway.  I know one of the guys here in NM restored a V50 with Matt's help.
1984 850 T5 (sold)
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #68 on: March 18, 2017, 06:39:33 AM »
So, in case I put foot in mouth (which I have done so many times before :)  ), are the V50 ign switches the same size as the std switches?  If not then I don't know if Matt has them or not.  But, since he has collected parts from many of the now defunct dealers he may have them anyway.  I know one of the guys here in NM restored a V50 with Matt's help.

*I don't know* either, but they look the same from memory, and Guzzi being Guzzi, I'd bet a dollar they are.  :smiley:
Ok, looked it up..
Quote
850T3, S3, T4, most T5, Convert, G5, 850 LeMans, LeMans II, CX100, LeMans III, LeMans 1000 all years LeMans IV and LeMans V, 1000S, Mille, SP1000, SP II, California II, California III, California 1100, V35, V50, V50 II, V50 III, Monza, V65C, V65SP, V65TT,
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline charlie b

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2017, 08:50:13 AM »
Well, glad I wasn't totally brain dead  :)

One other thing.  Before I got one from Matt I did make one.  I got a black PVC fitting the right size, chucked it in the lathe, bored, threaded.  Worked pretty good.  Sorry, can't do another since the lathe is gone.

PS at one time a few years ago I seem to remember someone posting in here that they made some every now and then for sale.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 08:52:03 AM by charlie b »
1984 850 T5 (sold)
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2017, 09:08:26 AM »
For even a cheap Guzzi guy like me, I wouldn't be making one when they're $18 from Cheese and Gordon.. :smiley: At that price point, though.. I can almost guess where they are from. I'll clean up the old one.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline SmithSwede

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2017, 02:31:45 PM »
Thanks very much for all the time and care you took doing this.   Threads like this are extremely useful and inspirational.  Great public service!

I'm now congratulating myself for having the good common sense last month to go through every electrical connector, relay, fuse and such I could find on my V7 and cleaning them up and doing the Deoxit thing.   Bike was new 3 years ago but I still found some cruddy looking connectors.

Quick question.    Whenever people talk about protecting ground connectors or battery posts they specify using Vaseline.  Not just any old grease--but Vaseline specifically.

Is there some reason Vaseline is better for this kind of electrical application?
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2017, 02:53:01 PM »
Well, I've put it off long enough. Pete says the reason he prefers fuel injection is that carbs "make your hands smell bad."  :smiley: He's right of course, but <sigh> it's gotta be done. Remove the slide and choke plunger, and pull the carbs out.
2017-03-18_02-43-10 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Drain into whatever you have.
2017-03-18_02-39-15 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Here's the only place I can think of that uses a M14 wrench.
2017-03-18_02-39-36 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Tap all around the float bowl with your plastic hammer. Hmmm, it doesn't want to come off. See where the choke well is? If you can work a screwdriver in that area, and pry
2017-03-18_02-39-56 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
it'll come right off.
2017-03-18_02-40-12 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
The o ring hangs up in the choke well, so a little leverage right there does the job.
Since it's been running ok, why did we do this? Two main reasons:
(1) and most important is to drain any accumulated water out of the float bowl. It's heavier than fuel, and will sit in the bottom of the bowl. So what, you say? Let me tell you a story. A guy called me one time and said he was at his wit's end. He'd be flying along in his Taylorcraft and that little Continental would be just purring along and then suddenly miss a beat. Back to purring. He said, he'd checked plugs, timing, cleaned the gascolator, checked compression, and nothing helped. It was getting to the point he was nervous about flying it. Did I have any idea what it was? I said, "No.. I know exactly what it is. You didn't drain the carb at the last annual did you?" "Er.. no." There is a reason that by regulation one of the maintenance items at an annual is to drain the carb. Don't ask me *why* it does it, I have a theory, but it does it.
(2) To check that it has the good black float. The white ones will cause you problems sooner or later, just like something with boobs, wheels, or wings.  :smiley:
Note what jets, slide, etc. are in it for future reference, and avoid the temptation to clean it by dunking it in a can of nasty carb cleaner.  :smiley: There's nothing wrong with it..carbs don't suddenly stop carburating. Just spray carb cleaner through the jets, blow them out, and reassemble.
Root around in your McMaster Carr motorcycle and homebuilt airplane supply and get some silicone fuel hose and new clamps. If there is any question about the rubber fuel lines, get rid of them.
2017-03-18_02-38-31 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Once you've installed the new fuel lines, you can spray carb cleaner on the outside. Safety glasses might be a good idea.. :cool:
One done, and one to go.
2017-03-18_02-38-51 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Before putting the carb back together, give an eyeball to the rubber gasket on the bottom of the choke plunger.
2017-03-18_02-38-07 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
This one looks ok, but if it's not, it can be turned over. You can replace the whole plunger if necessary. Cheap.
Dispose of the two float bowls worth of fuel and carb cleaner in an environmentally correct manner. I hope the little barstid gets cancer.  :evil: If he makes it to Dorcia's flower beds, I'll have a full time job on my hands.
2017-03-18_03-48-32 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
To be continued..

« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 02:56:50 PM by Chuck in Indiana »
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
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95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2017, 02:58:53 PM »
Quote
Is there some reason Vaseline is better for this kind of electrical application?

Because Kiwi Roy sez to. <shrug>  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline John A

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2017, 08:52:20 PM »
I can't believe you haven't swapped those PHBH's for some swanky PHF's  :evil:
John
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2017, 06:02:08 AM »
I can't believe you haven't swapped those PHBH's for some swanky PHF's  :evil:

Eh, she makes enough power now. I wouldn't want her to get away from me.. :grin:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2017, 04:45:37 PM »
Ok, Tylon..  :smiley:  fuel valves are held in by a strange left hand right hand arrangement. Just loosen the nut and unscrew the whole assembly. Remember that I said water will go to the low place in the fuel system? The selector valve well is the low spot in the tank.
2017-03-21_02-22-50 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Probably wouldn't hurt to take a bottle brush and clean out a little rust out of the well.
The filter just screws on to the selector valve, take it off, and inspect the valve. Many times, some doofus will take the stand pipe off, and when you run out of fuel, you are *out* of fuel.  :evil: You can see how it works. Fuel valve "on" fuel will stop flowing at the top of the stand pipe. Putting it on reserve lets fuel go in the hole that you can (barely) see in the top of the valve.
2017-03-21_02-20-23 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Turn the valve to "reserve" and blow compressed air through it.
That's about it for the fuel valve. Gotta fix dinner.. back later.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #77 on: March 21, 2017, 05:51:40 PM »
That pretty much finishes up the fuel system inspection/renovation.
The original owner did his own transmission breather mod, a necessary one on the small blocks.
A little history if you don't know, Tylon.  :wink: Originally, Guzzi specified a full liter of fluid in the transmission. When filled to this level, oil puked out of the breather. Owners were upset with oil all over their new 'sickle, so Guzzi specified a fill of 900 cc instead of *fixing* the problem.  :rolleyes: That starved the fifth gear of oil.  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:. If you have a "whining" fifth gear, now you know why, and no.. adding super oil, putting additives, etc. won't fix it.
So, a preemptive strike is the way to go. Here's the original owner's method..
He removed the little mushroom cap and made a fitting for a hose that runs uphill..
2017-03-21_03-35-04 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
He ran the hose up to the steering neck. You can see it here.
2017-03-21_03-35-18 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Not a bad idea, for 30some years ago, but transmission vapors eventually made a mess underneath the tank. You can see the accumulated oil/dust on the frame tube where I didn't clean it off.
Opps, Dorcia says she has the quinoa about ready, so I need to get back to fixing dinner.
Back later.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #78 on: March 21, 2017, 07:45:23 PM »
John A says he has a better method for the trans vent, so off with the starter.
2017-03-21_02-35-52 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
John sent me a letter by Dave Hewitt, tech rep, to Guzzi in 1985, that addressed the small block transmission failures. In a classic case of Guzzi's right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing.. they apparently ignored it.  :evil: :boozing:
So, here is what he said to do:
This requires a bit of faith to do this to a perfectly good transmission,  :smiley:  but John A is *not* the dumbest bear in the woods.. far from it.. and he said this was a good mod, so here goes. There is *supposedly* a cavity that doesn't get oil thrown at it from the gears behind here.
Center punch it so the drill bit will center on it and not wander..
2017-03-21_07-56-42 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
I thought that the most tenacious grease I'd ever used is this stuff.
2017-03-21_07-56-27 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
It's the best spline lube I've ever found, and trust me.. you won't fling it off.
Put some in the flutes of the drill bit and have at it. (R drill, the tap drill for a 1/8" pipe tap.)
2017-03-21_07-56-11 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
There *really is* a cavity here. <wiping sweat off brow>  :smiley:
Putting Wurth spooge in the flutes of the tap and tapping 1/8" pipe.
2017-03-21_03-17-22 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Yeah, baby! Looks good, and the very few chips can be cleaned up with a Q tip.
2017-03-21_03-17-09 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Rummaging around in my "good plumbing junk" drawer finds a right angle fitting with ferrule and another with some 1/4" plastic pipe.
2017-03-21_02-58-33 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Screw that sucker into our newly made tapped hole, insert the plastic pipe.. sorry, forgot to take a picture.. <shrug> and run the pipe up the frame tubing. A couple of zip ties will keep it there.
Since the cavity is dry, I don't expect it to puke any oil vapors.. but to be belt and suspenders safe, I'll leave the original vent.  :smiley:
It really does look to me to be the perfect solution. Why Guzzi didn't do it.. uh.. as usual, I don't know.
That pretty much does it except for putting everything back together.
Just a tip for putting the freshly cleaned and oiled K&Ns back on the carbs. They were stiff enough that I was struggling to put them back on. About 30 seconds from my Heat Gun From Hell (tm)  :smiley: softened them up to where they just slid on.
2017-03-21_04-40-02 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
One other thing. The intake rubbers on the small and big blocks have a tendency to crack right at the hose clamp locations.
2017-03-21_04-29-11 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Take a *good* look at them, so you don't end up wondering why you get some popping on overrun and hesitation of acceleration from low throttle openings.
I'd already put new tires and brake pads on last fall, and lubed the splines at that time, so as far as I'm concerned, it will just be a matter of "routine maintenance" for the next several years.
I hope you've gotten something from this.. as I mentioned.. there just isn't much info here on the old small blocks. I *know* that Tylon learned a lot.  :wink: :smiley:

Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #79 on: March 21, 2017, 08:35:27 PM »
While we're here..  :smiley: the other mod needed on the old small blocks is the "rear drive mod." I did a tutorial on it a few years ago, but it's apparently gone missing.
Here's a brief synopsis:
Pull it apart, and you'll see the crown wheel bolts with plates under them.

The plates need to be removed, and Shnoor washers installed under the bolts. It'll take a puller to do this.
There is a shim between the two halves with gaskets. You'll need new gaskets.

The issue is not enough oil to the pinion bearings. This was corrected in late '87, but if you have an earlier one, this needs to be done. The idea is to drill a hole at a shallow angle so oil can get to the front bearing.

After that, the center shim can be rotated to form a pocket so the crown wheel will throw oil into it and make it's way to the front bearing. You'll need to open up a hole as the shim isn't symmetrical.

Here's the finished product.

That should pretty much cover it for the old small block mods.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Tom H

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #80 on: March 21, 2017, 09:44:52 PM »
Thank you for taking the time to do this. I don't have a small block, but many of the items checked apply to a big block Cali and even Loop bikes for cleaning up the wiring.

Tom
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Offline SED

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #81 on: March 21, 2017, 10:26:08 PM »
Thanks Chuck! 

I used your rear drive mod a few years ago to fix mine and it's been fine!  Never seen the vent behind the starter trick so thanks for that too. 

Great posting.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #82 on: March 22, 2017, 06:01:45 AM »
Thanks Chuck! 

I used your rear drive mod a few years ago to fix mine and it's been fine!  Never seen the vent behind the starter trick so thanks for that too. 

Great posting.

Thanks to you, too. Between us we have most of the Monza Maintenance and Mods posted now.  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Groover

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #83 on: March 22, 2017, 07:17:03 AM »
Good stuff!  :thumb:
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Offline Unkept

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #84 on: March 22, 2017, 07:28:36 AM »
Awesome stuff Chuck!  :thumb: Drilling that transmission case... *nail biter*
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #85 on: March 22, 2017, 09:18:42 AM »
Awesome stuff Chuck!  :thumb: Drilling that transmission case... *nail biter*

Yeah, if I didn't know and trust John.. I'd probably have passed on that one, but sure enough there was a cavity there.  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline John A

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #86 on: March 22, 2017, 01:45:40 PM »
the first one I did, I used the original transmission breather fitting to keep my philosophy of using genuine parts when I can. The fitting was too big to fit between the webs so I had to modify the fitting to fit and ended up with a non standard part, so I would caution anybody to not use too big of fitting there. The neat part of this mod is that I can fill the transmission to the level hole with it leaned over on the sidestand with no leakage. I don't remember how much oil that is but Im sure 5th gear is adequately covered. Im amazed that a guy as obviously intelligent and talented as Chuck would start drilling holes in the side of his transmission :grin:
John
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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #87 on: March 22, 2017, 01:54:10 PM »
Thanks for that Chuck. Informative and concise. Some really good tips there. :thumb:
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
03 Breva

Life is just a bowl of Allbran
Ya wake up in the morning and it's there

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #88 on: March 22, 2017, 02:09:53 PM »
To continue with my "Just in the nick of time manufacturing," when  I came up for lunch, the Fedex guy had left a brand new non garden tractor battery on the porch. Had to see if everything was working..
2017-03-22_02-21-27 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Will it start? Uhhh..yeah.
Practically instantly. I'd swear the headlight is brighter.. or it could
 be my magination..
 runnin away with me..
 :smiley:
2017-03-22_02-21-11 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Dang! Now I have to find something else to do.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Monza annual inspection
« Reply #89 on: March 22, 2017, 02:17:37 PM »
Quote
Im amazed that a guy as obviously intelligent and talented as Chuck would start drilling holes in the side of his transmission :grin:

D'oh!  :smiley: :boozing: Suckered.
I could probably have done something a little more elegant, but that would have cost money. (Guzzi content) I just used what I had laying around. There's plenty of room for that right angle fitting.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

 

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