Author Topic: Guzzi Diag Question  (Read 1629 times)

Offline welshrob

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Guzzi Diag Question
« on: March 15, 2017, 07:13:45 PM »
I have purchased the lead, downloaded Guzzidiag, I`ve read all the tutorials and have figured out how to connect to the bike, done some dry runs etc.  :thumb:

Rather than trying to create a map from my oem map, I was looking to purchase or obtain an "off the peg" map to suit pipes and a hi flow filter but there don`t seem to be any maps available for my bike? It is an 09 V7 with a 15 RC Magneti Marelli ecu and twin throttle bodies. The vin ends in 00029M113267.

There are none for that model on griso.org and it doesn`t look like there are any plans to create any, either.  :cry:

Any suggestions?

Offline averb

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 08:34:47 PM »
Send Mark an email on the contact page


beetle

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 09:24:25 PM »
The reason there's no V7C maps is because I've never got my mitts on one to make a map. Right now, the priority is the single throttle body V7's. Even more of a priority (for me) is getting my beloved Griso cleaned up and all shiny again after a gravity assisted dismount.

Once I've hushed the pleading and mewling of the 1TB V7 crowd, I'll be free to tackle the next project. If someone wants to lend me their V7C for a few weeks, I'll make a map.

Best could do right now is a lambda-off, no-pop map. Furthermore, I say get rid of the rock strainer air filter. The stock paper filter flows way more than adequately for a V7. Any Guzzi, actually.

Offline welshrob

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 09:29:19 PM »
Best could do right now is a lambda-off, no-pop map.

That would be 100% improvement on what I have at the moment. If you can do it, I`ll take it.  :grin:


beetle

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 09:53:28 PM »
Right. I'll whip one up.

Online oldbike54

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 10:10:45 PM »
 Mark to the rescue  :thumb:

 Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday

Offline welshrob

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 12:34:18 AM »
Right. I'll whip one up.




Awesome! Many thanks. I guess you will PM me, or answer in this thread?

Online pete roper

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 12:44:20 AM »
Something else to realise about rock strainer air filters is that besides not filtering particularly well and hastening engine damage compared to the standard paper filter is that they don't clog in a consistent manner and they can change the flow rate more drastically over a wider range of time. With any system that doesn't have a flow sensor this will make it far harder for the ECU to trim in closed loop and may push it outside of what it believes are *Acceptable* parameters and, on bikes that have the capability, can trigger a 'Service' warning.

My main reasons for disliking them though is they don't work, it's hard to clean them to a 'consistent' flow rate every wash and they are dirty and expensive!

Pete

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 12:49:56 AM »
Is there a pod-type paper filter?

Online pete roper

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 12:53:27 AM »
No idea, sorry.

Pete

Offline welshrob

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 01:00:53 AM »
Is there a pod-type paper filter?

Like this? Might need some major modding to make it fit.  :grin:


Offline rodekyll

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2017, 01:05:41 AM »
That's what I'm using now.

Online pete roper

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2017, 01:24:16 AM »
Like this? Might need some major modding to make it fit.  :grin:



That's yer standard type of K&N or copy labyrinth filter. Might as well pull a stocking over the intake!:D

beetle

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2017, 01:39:41 AM »
Or a pair of soiled undies.

Offline welshrob

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2017, 03:04:15 AM »



So, it looks like pod filters might not be synonymous with high performance, then?  :wink:

Online pete roper

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2017, 04:26:48 AM »
No, they are about ease of servicing. The Heron head smallblocks won't breathe any better with less restrictive air access to the TB's because of, well, their Heron heads! The gas has to turn 90* both on the way on and the way out.

With the 8V-1200 the head design and cam timing actually make 'More Flow' in simplistic terms is even more counter productive if you care about anything other than absolute peak HP.

With the single TB smallblocks replacing the air filter is a breeze compared to the earlier models. No point in swapping the filter.

And as for 'Soiled Undies'? Yes, that's exactly how a labyrinth filter works! The damp sticky stuff on the fibres is supposed to catch the dirt as the air weaves it's way through the labyrinth as the 'Solid' particles in the air, having more mass, will not change direction as quickly as the air molecules so the particles are supposed to slam only the damp sticky stuff and stay there rather than going into the engine.

Only they don't because the holes in the medium are far too big to stop the really damaging small particles which will just whistle through the holes?

Labyrinth filters suck! Big time!

Pete
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 05:18:07 AM by pete roper »

Offline malik

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 05:53:42 AM »
The hi flow filter you used still goes into the airbox, correct? I ran one of those for a quite some time on the V7C, but when I took the bike apart to replace the clutch, I found the inside of the throttle bodies had a thin coating of oil (presumably from the air filter) turned black by accumulated dust. That explains perhaps some of the rough running I experienced. I cleaned them out before re-assembling the bike, and since then (45,000k ago) I've only run the stock filters & it's running very nicely, thank you very much. I have found that both the V7s seems to be sensitive to a good airflow.

I have run both Staintune mufflers & the Agostinis (with the dB killers in - without the dB killers the Agostinis developed quite a lot of popping on the overrun) and the 15RC ECU seems to cope well with them. What pipes are you running? Have you tried the original boat anchors again?

Clean out the airbox, try a standard filter, replace the spark plug caps with new NGKs, test or replace the HT leads, new spark plugs, then re-set the ECU by leaving the negative terminal off for bit, then ride a few hundred k & see if there is a change in running.

If that doesn't work satisfactorily, there are more candidates to look at. Get back to us.

BTW Guzzidiag tells me that the version of map I'm running is BC.0103278.A/3L10BN22.

Mal
2010 V7 Classic, 2014 V7 Special
1996 1100 Sport Carb (in NZ), 2004 V11 LeMans (in UK)
Carberry Enfield V-Twin, 2008 Royal Enfield Electra, 2006 RE Electra 535

Offline sturgeon

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2017, 08:44:14 AM »
I know paper filters cover rock filters, but do scissor filters cut paper filters?  :evil:
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Offline welshrob

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2017, 04:40:26 PM »
UPDATE: Mark (Beetle) sent me the map, I took the rock strainer filter out and put the oem paper filter back in and downloaded the map into my V7 and it`s GREAT! The throttle response has improved markedly, any snatchiness has gone, the popping on decel has been reduced by 70-80% and cold starting and riding off has been improved. It's a different bike and much better!

 :thumb: Thanks Mark!

The next step is some more tinkering. It still pops a little bit on decel, just as the throttle is closed and it's louder than it was previously, more of a bang than a pop, I think that adjusting the o2 levels will alleviate this.

twowings

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2017, 05:44:05 PM »
He's a damn wizard, I tell you!!  :bow:

beetle

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2017, 06:10:07 PM »
It still pops a little bit on decel, just as the throttle is closed and it's louder than it was previously, more of a bang than a pop,


I fix.

Offline welshrob

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Re: Guzzi Diag Question
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2017, 04:42:59 AM »

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