Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport, info please.

[William v128v]

Hi All, i'm new to Moto Guzzi ownership. I have a 2010 1200 Sport 8v , i previously had various Japanese bikes, Bandit 1250 being last one. Loving the Guzzi and it's uniqueness, just looking for some guidance on whats normal mechanical noise. When cold bike runs pretty quiet, no noticeable mechanical noises. When its warm, there is a bit of a rattle from the clutch when in neutral and not engaged. Is this normal? it operates fine so assuming all is well. Also sometimes get a clunk from the drive train at low speed if coasting out of gear then re-engaging gears. The bike had a 20,000 km service a few weeks ago and no issues were highlighted.  Advice is appreciated.

William

[Tom]

Clutch is dry and the engine will make more noise.  Make sure your oil levels are where they should be.  Quite normal to make more noise than Japanese bikes with wet clutches.  If in real doubt, get together with other Moto Guzzi owners and have them check it out.  The clunk is from the driveline re-engaging and the slack being taken up.

[alanp]

What Tom said, except I would be a bit more positive and say that what you describe sounds completely normal.  Those are Guzzi sounds and characteristics.  Ride and enjoy!

[Tom]

Earplugs help. 

[pete roper]

The most important question. Has it been rollerised?

The other stuff. Like the rattling clutch, (More likely the primaries rattling than the clutch itself.) at idle and the 'Clonk' in the driveline are probably the result of a poor tune but none of the 1200 Sports came from the factory with a roller motor so if it hasn't been done get it inspected and fixed ASAP. As a 2010 bike it will almost certainly need a 'C' kit.

Pete

[Huzo]

Go and say hi to Old Jock. I went through there on the Norge a couple of years back but didn't meet. Will be there again soon so I'll have another go, and maybe to you also if you wish. Do you have any Vegemite ??? Jock will have very good insights into Guzzi vagaries and be prepared for what you're gunna see bike wise when you get there. Welcome to Guzzi World and the forum. BTW, Roper didn't tear you a new ass for "engaging" the gears after "coasting in neutral" but I suspect that as an exercise in mechanical sympathy, it might be something to avoid, but I'd be guided by him...Huzo.

[fotoguzzi]

Welcome ! In case you didn't get what Pete is saying, there is a problem with the top end of that 8v motor and it's fix is conversion to roller tappets as I understand. Where did you buy it?

[William v128v]

Thanks all for your insight and comments. I am aware of the tappets issue but thus far my top end it fine. Bike has covered 16,500 miles its got a full dealer history and i had a full 20,000km service carried out on it 300 miles ago. I specifically asked the dealer to check the top and and he said all was fine. I dont do a lot of mileage, couple of thousand miles per year, so any wear issue will be caught at regular services. I did a lot of research and almost backed out of buying a 8v model but the open warranty eased my concerns, and i really had to have one, fed up with run of the mill stuff. Emailed Guzzi UK and they advised top end problems on the 8v sport were rare, just ride and enjoy the bike and if an issue does occur, warranty for parts will kick in as long as dealer serviced. I even contacted my local dealer and spoke to the mechanic, he said he'd never had to modify a sport, was generally Griso's. He said mine had been well looked after mechanically. As i say, the bikes are a wee bit more mechanical than i'm used to thus the question on normal running noises. Best thing ive bough for the bike is the hugger, keeps the shock area clean, next purchase, Hepco and Becker engine bars. 


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[beetle]

At 20,000 km, the tappets will be showing wear. No if's or buts. The only way to see is to pull the cam box. Anyone says otherwise, they're idiots. Even one speck of DLC missing is a failure.

[pete roper]

To save me going through it again here is a C&P of my latest reply to someone who asked questions of me via PM on the Griso Ghetto. He also asked about problems with the Nuovo Six Speed gearbox.

*******************************
In nine years of working on the 'Nuovo Six Speed' gearbox I've never had to take one apart. I have taken an early one apart to learn about it but it didn't *Need* to come apart.

As for the top end issue believe what you like but I too used to think that the issue was overblown and most likely the result of poor servicing UNTIL I started seeing bikes I'd serviced from new beginning to fail.

After that I started insisting that every flat tappet bike that comes through my workshop be examined. If owners decline? Then my tools stay in the box. Since instituting that policy I have found a 100% failure rate on machines with over 20,000km. To date my shop has carried out over 90 rollerisations, (As stated by our importer, an 'Order of magnitude' more than any other shop in Oz.) Australia is a very small market, we only have 20 million people here and the numbers of Guzzis sold yearly are measured in dozens rather than scores.

The top end doesn't start to make horrible noises until it is on its very last legs. I've now had enough experience I can tell by how the motor behaves if the damage is advancing but if you rely on it just being quiet and the valve clearances not changing you're barking up the wrong tree. Things are going bad long before that and the damage can be cumulative and destroy the bottom end, I know, it happened to my engine.

Nobody wants to think their motor will destroy itself. The problem is that fooling oneself into believing that it won't is counter productive. Inspecting the tappets on the left hand side is a fifteen minute job. Much better to know than to hope. Check them every valve adjust and soon enough you'll find they're going bad. And no matter what you might be told there is no such thing as 'Acceptable Wear'.

**************

Your bike may well have a full service history, it may well be eligible for a kit when it fails in an easily detectable way, (Noise, oil useage etc.) but that won't gaurantee a *Safe* outcome.

It astonishes and depresses me that there are still so many shops that haven't found this out for themselves. It's not bloody hard. At least not on anybody but owners whose bikes screw themselves through their unwillingness to perform a simple check.

Good luck.

Pete

[Huzo]

For heaven's sake William, please take notice of Roper on this if you never listen again. I don't have an 8V bike, mine's one of the old 4V pluggers but I'd IMMEDIATELY take it to him for the treatment if I were in your position, you may be able to get the guts on who you can trust. The "dealers" will bullshit you and when you're in the brown stuff, they'll throw their hands in the air and hit you up for shit loads. Lovely bike mate, just do it.

[William v128v]

Thanks Pete,at the next service i was going to ask them to pull the cambox and take photos of the tappets to show me, i will ask that the left side be inspected as per your guidance (assumed first side to wear or easiest to access). I'm hoping to keep the bike for a few years, had the Bandit for 6, so if rollerisation is inevitable, i'd like it done sooner rather than later. The coasting i referred to was at very low speed, i was in a procession of nearly 1000 bikes yesterday, 2017 Glasgow Easter Egg charity run which snakes through the streets of Glasgow to the Children's hospital, lots of clutch pulling and 1st/2nd gear riding, my hand was killing me. Just a wee bit of a clunk occasionally when reengaging the clutch. Link to video https://youtu.be/tv3eu-QqhsE i can be seen at 11:56 between my friend on the Cb1300 and other friend on a W650.

[pete roper]

In one of the myriad of roller tappet threads there is a video of me removing a cambox. It is thirteen minutes long. Don't be told it's arduous, hard or time consuming. If they are unwilling to look it's because they don't care or are incompetent.

There are plenty of others here who have been told that BS line.

[beetle]

For your viewing pleasure: Pete pulls a cambox.

[nobleswood]

Taking to my brother he was looking forward to going on the Easter Egg run through Glasgow. 
But he couldn't help; rides an old triumph.

Even if you're not very mechanical you can take the valve covers off, they have vitron gaskets so nothing to replace, & look at the where the tappets engage the camshaft. You can see the ends of the roller tappets. Dead easy !

As someone else mentioned, see if you can meet Old Jock, he has a lot of experience & is just around the corner.

[pete roper]

Checking if it's been rollerised is that easy. Thing is I'd reckon that any seller who'd had the bike done would use it as a bargaining chip to up the price. I know I would! :D

Chances are though it hasn't.

[William v128v]

Thanks Pete, video very helpful. i can confidently say my bike hasn't been rollerised, as the chap i bought it from said it hadn't and mentioned the open warranty that i looked in to. I also checked with Guzzi uk to see if any warranty work had been done and it had no record of any, then they went on to advise just to enjoy the bike and warranty will kick in if tappets fail...  At this point the bike runs very quietly,even when up to temperature, and clutch rattle disappears when clutch lever is pulled, no untoward engine noises so will have it examined thoroughly at the next service.

best regards, William.

[tris]

William Track down 8valveeagle (Keith) on the UK Guzzi owners club in the UK and ask him about the battle he had with Guzzi UK before he got his Stelvio rollerised
You could well get stuck with the labour if not the parts provided you can demonstrate main dealer servicing from new

[pete roper]

Thanks Pete, video very helpful. i can confidently say my bike hasn't been rollerised, as the chap i bought it from said it hadn't and mentioned the open warranty that i looked in to. I also checked with Guzzi uk to see if any warranty work had been done and it had no record of any, then they went on to advise just to enjoy the bike and warranty will kick in if tappets fail...  At this point the bike runs very quietly,even when up to temperature, and clutch rattle disappears when clutch lever is pulled, no untoward engine noises so will have it examined thoroughly at the next service.

best regards, William.

As long as you have a full service history the factory will supply the parts. Cost of installation will be down to you. In the US some people have managed to get the labour for nix as well but it's usually been a long fight. A 'C' kit installation requires head removal and for someone with experience is about a five hour job. Also note that the factory's suggestion that the engine simply be flushed out with a couple of litres of oil is woefully inadequate. The sump needs to come off for a good clean out at least.

Pete

[William v128v]

Thanks again all. i have the original service book all stamped to date and all by MG dealers. I have receipts too that correspond.
it had services as follows
5miles PDI Moto Corsa Wimborne . i have the full signed tick sheet etc.
960 miles by Moto Corsa Wimborne
4021 miles by Moto Corsa Wimborne
6567 miles Moto Corsa Wimborne
10719 miles by Moto Strad, Stockport
14498 Miles, sold by Moto Strada, Stockport to previous owner. Oil and filter change service.
16212 miles by Jim Allan, Falkirk. My ownership.

Should be ok for warranty claim.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

The clatter with the clutch engaged is totally normal, as is the bit of clunkyness of on/off throttle at parking lot speeds...  those are no worry.  I would get it rollerised ASAP tho... pete is the expert in this area, heed his advice

[William v128v]

Thanks Mayor of BBQ.

[SemperVee]

Clutch chatter.  Ducati riders pay extra for that . . . . I kinda like that sound on my 07 Norge

[pete roper]

2VPC motors and 4VPC motors use completely different clutches. The 1200's also don't have the face cam shock absorber in the gearbox so they tend to 'Clonk' a bit more.

[beetle]

Code maple telly different!

Don't you just love Apple autocorrect?

[RANDM]

What? That totally made sense! : )

[pete roper]

Code maple telly different!

Don't you just love Apple autocorrect?

Yes, I wish you could turn it the hell off! Then at least I'd be responsible for my own appalling spelling!

Anyway, I corrected the corrector! :D

Damn! I had to do it TWICE! Arse!

[pete roper]

Thanks again all. i have the original service book all stamped to date and all by MG dealers. I have receipts too that correspond.
it had services as follows
5miles PDI Moto Corsa Wimborne . i have the full signed tick sheet etc.
960 miles by Moto Corsa Wimborne
4021 miles by Moto Corsa Wimborne
6567 miles Moto Corsa Wimborne
10719 miles by Moto Strad, Stockport
14498 Miles, sold by Moto Strada, Stockport to previous owner. Oil and filter change service.
16212 miles by Jim Allan, Falkirk. My ownership.

Should be ok for warranty claim.

It should be, but Moto Guzzi GB seem to take a perverse pleasure in stuffing people around! You'll still be up for the labour component too and as I say I'd pay to have the sump removed and cleaned as well as the factory's procedure is inadequate.

[RANDM]

Pete - I've got an Apple SE and in Settings>General>Keyboard you can
turn off both Auto Correct and Auto Capital : )

Maurie.