You guys know everything - modest classic handling bike?

[JJ]

Kick-start ONLY or not...I think these SR400's are sweet little bikes...Would love to have one in the stable! :1: Also it's predecessor, the SR500 or the SRX600!!

[sidecarnutz]

Wow. Reading this stuff makes me glad I got an older RE Bullet 500 with the non unit case. It has actually been quite reliable for me the past two years. Front drum brake is awful, but that is my only complaint. It has a top comfortable cruising speed of 50 mph. At 55 and above the handlebar vibes get worse & worse. So I cruise it on back roads and stay off hiways. Ridden like that, it is comfortable and light handling and a lot of fun. Perfect bike for the BRP!

[toaster404]

Got a date with a V-7, maybe this weekend, and a line on a Bonneville she can take on a substantial ride and get if she likes.  So things are coming together.

On the other hand, she commuted solo on the Versys today and did OK.

I'm not going to fight with this one, whatever she wants we'll figure out!

Great suggestions above and I'm passing them on to her.

[Kev m]

On the other hand, she commuted solo on the Versys today and did OK.

I'm not going to fight with this one, whatever she wants we'll figure out!

Great suggestions above and I'm passing them on to her.

So are we to take it this is a replacement for the Versus?

Is it because there's something she doesn't like about it, looks, height?

Just curious.

[paulbr]

On horsepower alone the V7 is streets ahead of all those other weird looking bikes.

We are definitely not in Kansas anymore! Not sure anybody has ever said that before and if they did it probably wasn't true.

[ScepticalScotty]

Well them V7s Paul, they can throw ya right off the back if you ain't experienced. And never use the front brake you'll go over the bars. Of course if you have to lay er down.....

[Northern Bill]

This is maybe way off base but I was also wondering what was wrong with the Versys.  I remember liking them when they came out but I had forgotten what they looked like so I just googled Versys and found that they have a new one in 300cc. To me that looks like a fun bike especially for the Dragon. Hardly a classic though!

[LowRyter]

Got a date with a V-7, maybe this weekend, and a line on a Bonneville she can take on a substantial ride and get if she likes.  So things are coming together.

On the other hand, she commuted solo on the Versys today and did OK.

I'm not going to fight with this one, whatever she wants we'll figure out!

Great suggestions above and I'm passing them on to her.

The Versus is just a great motorcycle that few bikes in that range can compare.         

[Kev m]

The Versus is just a great motorcycle that few bikes in that range can compare.       

Unless of course it's as simple as "she doesn't like it" which then it doesn't matter as IT can't compare to the bikes in "that" range.

That's where I'd be personally.

I've put some miles on a Versys, it was adequate in a lot of ways, inspiring in none. But that's a taste thing.

[LowRyter]

Great news Ken.  I am still awaiting your preference regarding the test rides of the Harley, Indian and Cal 14 of 4 years ago.  I am glad you have a definitive non preference for the Versus.   Quite helpful to many here no doubt.

The Versus is a faster, better handling motorcycle let down by utter reliability. 

[Tennmoto]

How about the KTM 390, it's supposed to be a great riding bike and $4999 new. 

[Kev m]

Great news Ken.  I am still awaiting your preference regarding the test rides of the Harley, Indian and Cal 14 of 4 years ago.  I am glad you have a definitive non preference for the Versus.   Quite helpful to many here no doubt.

The Versus is a faster, better handling motorcycle let down by utter reliability.

I think you completely missed the point.

The Versys (did both our autocorrects do that spelling? lol) may be all that to you or someone who plain likes it. To anyone else it might as well be a Keurig and none of that matters.

She already HAS a Versys (or access to one) and for whatever personal reason she is looking for something else, which suggests she's not happy with it, i.e  she has her own non preference.

And I know you were being sarcastic, but I'll still probably take the RK over a Cali 1400, Indian, or especially now, a Vic. Though now I have to ride the new M8.

Meanwhile I still think the next bike to join the fleet will be the new CX Roadster.

[LowRyter]

I think you completely missed the point.

The Versys (did both our autocorrects do that spelling? lol) may be all that to you or someone who plain likes it. To anyone else it might as well be a Keurig and none of that matters.

She already HAS a Versys (or access to one) and for whatever personal reason she is looking for something else, which suggests she's not happy with it, i.e  she has her own non preference.

And I know you were being sarcastic, but I'll still probably take the RK over a Cali 1400, Indian, or especially now, a Vic. Though now I have to ride the new M8.

Meanwhile I still think the next bike to join the fleet will be the new CX Roadster.

totally got your point and I think you got mine.  And appreciate the spell help. 

Glad you decided on the RK after 4 years of consideration.   

[Kev m]

Glad you decided on the RK after 4 years of consideration.   

Ha ha, but I'll still probably buy a Sporty, lol.

[oldbike54]

 Weird how different perception can be , having ridden a couple of Sportsters over the last few years I can discern zero similarities to my Jackal , like none , zip, nada . OK , maybe in acceleration , but literally nothing else .

 Dusty

[Kev m]

Weird how different perception can be , having ridden a couple of Sportsters over the last few years I can discern zero similarities to my Jackal , like none , zip, nada . OK , maybe in acceleration , but literally nothing else .

 Dusty

Size, weight, power-to-weight ratio are all more similar than dissimilar. They differ largely by fractions or singles digits.

The Jackal was A HAIR longer, made a tad less HP and torque, weighed a few pounds less, felt like it turned a little quicker, had a little more vibration.

But all sooooo much more similar than so many other bikes from Bonnie's to Oilheads, from Bricks to Ducs, from BT Harleys to Vic's or Neo-Indians to obviously most everything from JAPanInc.

But I'm measuring with a yardstick and not a micrometer.

[LowRyter]

Calling BS on that one Kev.  I don't think the Jackal makes less HP than a Sportster:  The Guzzi revs another 2k rpms. 

So far as vibrations, you must be talking about a rubber mount Sporty, otherwise way off base. 

[toaster404]

If she gets something else I'll dump my VStrom and keep the Versys.  The Versys is amazing.  Much better suspension than the stock suspension on the VStrom.  And I have decided I really don't need a litre ADV bike - smaller would be better.  I can flog that Versys pretty nice, too!

Been talking to her and am thinking that I might be able to fix her general issues.  Suspect she's hanging onto the bars tight.  My demo of doing twisties 2 up on the big Guzzi with thumb and finger on each grip apparently had an influence.

Will see what she does.  She looks so good for the most part! 

[tazio]

After owning a string of kick start only bikes from 1968 until about 1990 , I can highly recommend electric starters 

 Dusty

As luck would have it, anyone with issues kick starting THIS bike,
Yamaha will throw in a box of tampons...

[Kev m]

Calling BS on that one Kev.  I don't think the Jackal makes less HP than a Sportster:  The Guzzi revs another 2k rpms. 

I keep a spreadsheet on various bikes, here are some facts/figures I've compiled, largely but not all from MCN (M Consumer News), but also from Motorcyclist, Motorcycle.com, CW, and some individual dyno sheets etc., many dimensional specs from OEM:

97 Cali - 540 dry / 553 wet, 93.7" length, 61.4" wheelbase, 59 rwhp / 58 ft. lbs. torque
00 Jackal - 542 dry / 572 wet, 92.7" length, 61.4" wheelbase, 62 rwhp / 60 ft. lbs. torque
10 Cal Vin - 580 dry / 616 wet, 93.7" length, 61.4" wheelbase, 68 rwhp / 58 ft. lbs. torque
11 Black Eagle - 553 dry / 589 wet, 93.7" length, 61.4" wheelbase, 68 rwhp / 58 ft. lbs. torque

04 1200R - 565 dry / 585 wet, 90.1" length, 60.0" wheelbase, 58 rwhp / 69 ft. lbs. torque (carb)
07 XL50 -  558 dry / 578 wet, 89.1 length, 60.0" wheelbase, 64 rwhp / 73 ft. lbs. torque (EFI)
09 XR1200 -  526 dry / 580 wet, 85.4 length, 59.8" wheelbase, 79 rwhp / 68 ft. lbs. torque
16 1200CX -  549 dry / 568 wet, 86.0 length, 59.3" wheelbase, 69 rwhp / 74 ft. lbs. torque



Of course you probably are more aware than most on this board how Harley purposely chokes the motors and how much a Stage I can do for them (much more in my observation than most other brands who don't seem to purposely handicap them). As such it's not uncommon to see a simple Stage I rubbermount dyno in the mid-to-high 60's or low 70's hp.

I suspect a Stage I on a new CX will easily make high 70s, and might touch low 80s at the rear wheel.

So far as vibrations, you must be talking about a rubber mount Sporty, otherwise way off base.

That's all that they've sold for 13+ years now (since 2004) so yeah, of course I am.

I wrote sporty's off in the 90s, swore I'd never own another, but a demo of a 2004 1200R changed all that, and now I'm planning the purchase of #4 (#5 if you count the solidmount I had in 93-95).

[JJ]

I never personally owned a Sportster, but have ridden several...vintage and modern...and I always liked the no frills look. :1:  This "Forty-Eight" model is way cool.   If I had the room and extra lettuce, I would have no issues owning and riding one.   I also always like the Jackal and the Stone model Guzzi's as well...same thing...no frills...stripped down...pure motorcycle!






free image hosting for websites

[LowRyter]

yeah Kev, you can hot rod a harley and make it pull pretty hard.  Certainly you can spend a ton of money and get power where a Sporty can run like a 15 year old Jackal or even faster.   

So when you spend all that money to throw all those mods and make Guzzi power+, does the engine shake like a jack hammer?  Much easier to have a stock bike that smoothly revs another 2000 rpm which is my preference.

[Kev m]

yeah Kev, you can hot rod a harley and make it pull pretty hard.  Certainly you can spend a ton of money and get power where a Sporty can run like a 15 year old Jackal or even faster.   

So when you spend all that money to throw all those mods and make Guzzi power+, does the engine shake like a jack hammer?  Much easier to have a stock bike that smoothly revs another 2000 rpm which is my preference.

Except that I quoted you STOCK numbers in that comparison. So again my 07 Sporty STOCK ran just fine/just as fast as my 00 Jackal. And a new CX would be a bit quicker.

And no, I don't bother going full Stage I as I don't like loud exhausts. I ran very lightly modified exhausts on my 07 for 10 years and just recently went back to stock. It runs great, no jack hammer and MUCH SMOOTHER THAN MY JACKAL (or BREVA 1100) EVER WAS.

[oldbike54]

As luck would have it, anyone with issues kick starting THIS bike,
Yamaha will throw in a box of tampons...

 Your knees aren't shot 

 Dusty

[tazio]

Good point !   

[LowRyter]

Except that I quoted you STOCK numbers in that comparison. So again my 07 Sporty STOCK ran just fine/just as fast as my 00 Jackal. And a new CX would be a bit quicker.

And no, I don't bother going full Stage I as I don't like loud exhausts. I ran very lightly modified exhausts on my 07 for 10 years and just recently went back to stock. It runs great, no jack hammer and MUCH SMOOTHER THAN MY JACKAL (or BREVA 1100) EVER WAS.

the dyno chart had a St 1 kit with screamin bald eagles.  Really, the sporty goes to 5500 rpm and the Guzzi will run 7k with another k over rev.   I won't pick nits withya, since I am confused with all your numbers and charts.  And we're comparing a Cali, not a sport Guzzi which seems crazy when you're showing bald eagles  .... but ride whatcya want. 

I am sure your original statement is true in some circumstances.   Still if we're comparing 15 year old sportsters to jackals (which was on my mind)....which is oranges to oranges, BUT,  I am sure you can show me a 15 year old  vance and hines pro-stocker-buel-sportster-eagle-stroker-blower and still win the argument.  Win at all costs or don't try.   I should know better.

[Perazzimx14]

Something like a 2012 V7 Racer might just be the ticket and come to think of it I know where there might be one for sale.

[Kev m]

the dyno chart had a St 1 kit with screamin bald eagles.  Really, the sporty goes to 5500 rpm and the Guzzi will run 7k with another k over rev.   I won't pick nits withya, since I am confused with all your numbers and charts.  And we're comparing a Cali, not a sport Guzzi which seems crazy when you're showing bald eagles  .... but ride whatcya want. 

I am sure your original statement is true in some circumstances.   Still if we're comparing 15 year old sportsters to jackals (which was on my mind)....which is oranges to oranges, BUT,  I am sure you can show me a 15 year old  vance and hines pro-stocker-buel-sportster-eagle-stroker-blower and still win the argument.  Win at all costs or don't try.   I should know better.

Not for nothing my friend but the chart ALSO SHOWED BONE STOCK NUMBERS which is what I quoted, and listed in the comparison, in BOLD so it wouldn't confuse you and it clearly showed the 07, bone stock bike, made more HP (a tad) than a Jackal of almost identical size and weight.

Which was really the only point.

You called BS, so I backed up my statements with figures.

Cue mic drop. [emoji56]

I don't know why Jackal rpm range confuses you so, the Sporty makes more torque too, by a margin and at an rpm that makes up for the difference I guess.

Of course we're comparing Calis and not other models, the whole conversation started when I said how similar my Cali was to my Sporty. [emoji28]

I don't know where this win at all costs or other stuff started. Maybe you called BS on my statement understanding it which moves the goal posts in my mind.

Maybe I was unclear in my post. For me the Sportster changed completely in 2004 making it a completely different (improved) bike from what it was that. So I'd compare an 00 Jackal (I that I owned) to an 04 later (like I own). And I'd probably choose an 07+ to get EFI. So that's what I meant when I stated "Sportster".

That would explain this 15 year old distraction. I mean I wasn't calling for some ultimate year by year analysis of the merits of a Sportster vs a Cali. I just noted a similarity in two bikes I owned.

But if you want I'll be happy to go and compare some solidmounts to the Jackal. Though I'm not sure that would be oranges and oranges.

The solidmount would be lighter by up to 50# (which helps a little) but would be carbureted instead of EFI. I'd expect it to make less HP than the Jackal, maybe even less than the 97 Cali I posted, and that's fine. It wouldn't bother me in any way, nor change my original statement.

[LowRyter]

Kev, the only thing I am not confused about is that the Guzzi has 2k more revs than than a "sporty".

Other than that, you can cherry pick all the sporsters you want since the Jackal went out of production 15 years ago, add bald eagle parts to it and win your argument at all costs.  Bravo.

My thinking was a stock jackal beats a stock 15 year old sportster and revving another 2 grand helps.

But for sure there are vance and hines-stroker-blower-racing-screaming-nitro-buel- eagle versions that have come out over the last 15 years that can outrun a jackal.  Some might outrun my V11 sport too. 

[Shorty]

It's all in how you look at it. Either the 2004 and up Sportsters are well thought out, reliable, good looking bikes with no-fuss belt drive and hydro valves,  easy to maintain single point fueling, decent brakes and plenty of power for the class they reside in.....OR they are  still a beginner bike for gay pirates.  Truth is,  Sporties are  both. I favor the balance, handling and power delivery of the Guzzi, but that is opinion. You pay your $ and ride what you like. Those 500 Rebels ain't looking too shabby, either.