Author Topic: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .  (Read 11311 times)

Offline MotoChuck250

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2017, 10:01:14 PM »
I hope Harley doesn't do to Ducati what they did to Buell!

Penderic

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2017, 11:13:40 PM »
Will Ducati influence HD?

Maybe now we will see finally some new TV motorcycle shows that break with the usual chopper format! Yay.


or maybe not.


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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2017, 11:23:45 PM »
 EEK!

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Offline ITSec

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2017, 02:03:54 AM »
It'd be a good thing to have some of that Ducati technology put into the H-D's. I say BRING IT baby!

Paul

More likely we'll see HD technology moving into Ducati!  :tongue:
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Offline ITSec

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2017, 02:05:23 AM »
Will Ducati influence HD?

Maybe now we will see finally some new TV motorcycle shows that break with the usual chopper format! Yay.


or maybe not.

Please, Lord, let me unsee that!
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Online kingoffleece

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2017, 05:41:50 AM »
My Lord, what's next?  Jack Danial making, gasp, CANADIAN whiskey?
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2017, 06:23:29 AM »
Hey! The new Indiana..  :smiley:
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2017, 06:43:44 AM »
They will buy it and let it die...or worse, apply a disfiguring dose of 'Amurrican thinking' and we get another line-up of cartoon bikes... :rolleyes:

Offline leafman60

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2017, 06:57:36 AM »
H-D has been talking for some time about expanding their overseas markets with more dealers. International sales have done pretty well for them so far.  Rightfully so, they are looking beyond their domestic market.

https://rideapart.com/articles/harley-davidson-plans-build-50-new-models

I suspect that the motive to buy Ducati has a lot to do with this desire.  If I recall correctly, that was also a motivation in H-D buying MV Agusta before the Great Recession.

It seems a bit odd to me but H-D management seems to have a good handle on the business. Most other manufacturers rightfully envy their financial success.

I do not think this move, if it occurs, will have negative consequences for either brand. If anything, we may see a continued development of the H-D models to appeal to our foreign cousins. The Milwaukee 8 already seems to be another move in that direction.

In the mix, Ducati may get vastly greater dealer exposure through the H-D stores or separate adjuncts to those stores throughout the US.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 07:01:20 AM by leafman60 »

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2017, 06:58:25 AM »
I'm not sure what to make of this.

To one extent I'm ever the optimist and always wanted to see Harley expand their offerings.

I thought Buell was the right step, handled completely the wrong way.

I thought MV could at least open the door. But again.

So in the seemingly unlikely event that this happens would Harley have learned it's lesson?

* They can't force sportbikes into existing dealers who don't want/understand the market.

* They can't restrict sportbike franchises from all-brand dealers.

* They'd need to market both brands separately keeping to their strengths.


There's not A LOT of crossover to on which to capitalize, maybe a little but in suppliers like Brembo.

All that said, I wouldn't mind a multi-brand dealer that I could go to for all my needs.... Not that it will ever happen.
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Offline leafman60

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2017, 07:59:17 AM »
Try this thought-

When H-D buys Ducati, how about them making a stop in Mandello and picking up Guzzi to boot?  Maybe a 2 for 1 deal?

.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 12:46:07 PM by leafman60 »

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2017, 08:31:13 AM »
 Let's review . HD Buys Aermacchi , turns the sporting 250 CC single into a faux HD , 350 CC , split exhaust , dual mufflers , anyone want one of those pigs . They badge an Aermacchi designed 2 stroke as a Harley to go gp racing , claim a world title . Aermacchi goes out of business , Cagiva starts up in old factory .

 Harley buys MV Agusta , has no idea what to do with the brand , sells it back to the Castiglioni family for like a dollar .

 Yeah , no , third time isn't the charm , and leave Moto Guzzi alone please .

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2017, 08:41:43 AM »
It'd be a good thing to have some of that Ducati technology put into the H-D's. I say BRING IT baby!

Paul

Which technology would that be ???
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2017, 08:46:22 AM »
H-D management seems to have a good handle on the business. Most other manufacturers rightfully envy their financial success.
 

HD succeeds only in its niche.  Yeah, it's a big niche, but they're basically a one-trick-pony.

No one I've ever met that is involved with HD "gets it".  They have very little grasp of the motorcycling world outside their own back yard.
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kirby1923

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2017, 08:52:06 AM »
Maybe as an investment with no intention of merging the two on their showrooms.
These financial deals can get pretty complicated but maybe  looking for strategic moves to broaden their moto industry influence or even resale.

Online Tusayan

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Re: Harley Ducks?
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2017, 09:46:55 AM »
Harley Davidson has a long history of owning or partnering with italian motorcycle makers.

IIRC, HD bought MV Agusta about a decade ago for over 100 million. Then, they turned around two years later and sold it back to the original owners for A 1/4 of their original investment. I think Cagiva may have been bundled into that deal.

Aermacchi, Cagiva and the current 90s onward version of MV are past and present versions of the same company, operating in the same factory. Harley owned them twice, once in the 60s and 70s, another time more recently.  HD's interaction with the company was not very successful in terms of the product, but particularly in the recent case injected money to save the company, never recouped.

Both Ducati (under Texas Pacific Group) and Guzzi (under Trident Rowan Group - De Tomaso's moneyed wife was from New Jersey) have been American owned in the past.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 09:49:46 AM by Tusayan »

Online Sheepdog

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2017, 09:54:12 AM »
It seems as though HD has long feared the one-dimensional nature of their lineup. The weird part is that they often gravitate to Italian marques to bolster what they may offer. I really thought Harley was on to something with Buell and that truly sporting Sportster they offered a few years back, but they just couldn't seem to make it work. It is as though they fear making even the slightest deviation from the business plan that is currently working. Hopefully, they'll brace up Ducati and just let them operate as a separate entity.
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Offline Yeahoo Whoyah

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2017, 10:29:30 AM »
I've heard H-D is going to drop the V-Rod, will not be offered in 2018 model line. The one modern engine design and and they can't market it and their core customers have ignored it.  Add that to the list of H-D failures and they didn't have to go to Italy to do it.   
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2017, 10:47:03 AM »
yep....  I can see it now.
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Never had one, but I always liked those.   I'll bet that if they were ridden and treated like an Italian sporty bike and not a minibadass chugging Harley impostore, they'd be a nice bike.

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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2017, 10:54:01 AM »
The early Sprints were pretty fun. It's probably what kindled my life long love of Italian motorcycles.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 10:54:31 AM by Chuck in Indiana »
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2017, 11:09:31 AM »
I've heard H-D is going to drop the V-Rod, will not be offered in 2018 model line. The one modern engine design and and they can't market it and their core customers have ignored it.  Add that to the list of H-D failures and they didn't have to go to Italy to do it.

That engine is what?  25 years old, now?  Developed from the 1990s VR1000 superbike.

VRSC did have a long run on the street; 2001-2017.

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Online Rough Edge racing

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2017, 11:15:35 AM »
Never had one, but I always liked those.   I'll bet that if they were ridden and treated like an Italian sporty bike and not a minibadass chugging Harley impostore, they'd be a nice bike.

Lannis

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2017, 12:15:16 PM »
That engine is what?  25 years old, now?  Developed from the 1990s VR1000 superbike.

VRSC did have a long run on the street; 2001-2017.

One might argue that the Street 750 and 500 are descendants of it in the same way a Guzzi smallblock is related to the big block. They're not identical and don't share any parts, but they are of similar design.

I can see the Street line expanding as emissions or performance figures demand it.

I wonder if it's a combination of having the Street models for those markets and water-cooled heads on some BTs for upcoming tighter standards that helped with the decision to axe the Vrod.
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2017, 12:25:32 PM »

You bring a good point, Kev.  Upcoming emissions in Europe may ultimately be responsible for the demise of the V-Rod.

It's never been a great seller, overall, but it was considered a success in Europe, selling better there than here.

Might have been the same thought process used by Polaris to kill Victory:  Engine needs expensive upgrades to remain compliant, but is it worth the investment? 

liquid-cooling and eight-valves on the big twins, plus the newish Street line.  Yeah, I can see how they would kill the VRSC.

Personally, I still don't know why they didn't build a Road Glide around the VRSC engine, but they never asked me!   :laugh:


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Offline Thunderbutt

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2017, 12:38:13 PM »
I cant imagine this taking place.  Going thru Pa. on our trip we were told H/D had just laid off over one hundred employees at its Yorktown (Pa) plant. If they are so successful would they be cutting back production?
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2017, 12:44:22 PM »
I cant imagine this taking place.  Going thru Pa. on our trip we were told H/D had just laid off over one hundred employees at its Yorktown (Pa) plant. If they are so successful would they be cutting back production?

Possibly they've given the corporate bean counters just a bit too much power .... ?

"Let's see, the cost of an employee with full benefits, pension liability and all is about $200K a year, so if we lay off 100, that would be $20,000,000 per year we'd save, and the cost of Ducati amortized over 25 years is .... let's see, carry the 2 ... yep, if we Cut Expenses by laying off a bunch of production guys, we can do it!!!   We'll be on the cover of Forbes!"

This sort of thing happens all the time; I've watched it go down ....

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2017, 12:45:36 PM »
I cant imagine this taking place.  Going thru Pa. on our trip we were told H/D had just laid off over one hundred employees at its Yorktown (Pa) plant. If they are so successful would they be cutting back production?

The overall motorcycle market is shrinking.  Harley Davidson sales are shrinking, despite retaining a huge market share of the streetbike market.

Buying another successful motorcycle company is a way to broaden market share.

Ducati is successful and profitable and would be a good way for another motorcycle company to expand in this declining market.

Yes.  I slept at a Holiday Inn Express, last night.
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Online jpv7

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2017, 01:07:43 PM »
Oh no, a Ducati with unplated fasteners...

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2017, 01:19:59 PM »
I cant imagine this taking place.  Going thru Pa. on our trip we were told H/D had just laid off over one hundred employees at its Yorktown (Pa) plant. If they are so successful would they be cutting back production?

They still have about 50% of the US street bike market (650cc+), and they've opened assembly plants in Brazil, India, and now I believe Thailand to get around expensive import tariffs.

At the same time their sales have shrunk since the peak of something like 350k bikes/year right before the market crash to something more in the mid to upper 200k bikes/year they are now.

So combine all of that and they had more workers in York than they needed, sorry but that's life.

They are "so successful" because they are a textbook example of a small private buyout of a company that was making ~36,000 bikes a year in 1986 and they grew to a powerhouse making 10X that amount in two decades. They went public, and stockholders who were along for much of that ride enjoyed a lot of growth (including multiple splits). They treated their employees rather well (as the union rhetoric that came out during strikes right before the crash revealed better pay and benefits than similar positions anywhere around York/Harrisburg).

That's not to say they haven't also screwed up plenty, I've got a laundry list of places where I think they pushed too far or squandered opportunities, but hey, that doesn't take away what they've accomplished.
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Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2017, 02:12:22 PM »


Might have been the same thought process used by Polaris to kill Victory:  Engine needs expensive upgrades to remain compliant, but is it worth the investment? 



Didn't know about that. Too bad, they seemed good motorcycles - at least the Indian thing will still be kept going.
 
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