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Didn't know about that. Too bad, they seemed good motorcycles - at least the Indian thing will still be kept going.
Which technology would that be ???
Harley...laid off workers (3.5% of total workforce) in 2 plants and saw Polaris blow by with double digit increase in sales huge profits. Sure Polaris is much smaller the HOG but they are eating into HD market share. "In Q2, Polaris� motorcycle sales grew 23% year-over-year and gross profit increased by 63%. Although Harley�s motorcycle and related parts revenue is more than 7x that of Polaris�, what is notable here is the trend. While the overall motorcycle industry retail sales for 901+cc were down mid-single digit percent in the second quarter, North American consumer retail demand for the Polaris motorcycle segment was up mid-teens percent. This means that Polaris is growing much more than Harley. This, however, isn�t surprising, since Polaris is much smaller and Harley already has a massive ~50% market share to protect. However, the growth levels that Polaris is managing are more than commendable and could hurt Harley�s market share � which is already under pressure from international manufacturers. While Harley lowered its full-year shipment guidance on tepid U.S. sales, Polaris announced that it expects its motorcycle sales to be up by a double-digit percentage this year."For those who look to the future another Forbes article breaks down the best and worst case scenario for HD in the future. Interestingly they call the "heavyweight market" at anything about 601ccs. I think that the need to up that figure to 750ccs as there are a lot of 600-750 cos that are not heavy weigh bikes. As an investment and not a M/Cist I would not put my money on them in the long term after reading this piece.
These articles always frustrate me. Here's why:"Rocker59 motors has reported a 100% increase in motorcycle sales, while Harley Davidson has seen a 3.5% decrease. Rocker59 motors is clearly cutting into HD marketshare, and the MoCo appears concerned"Here's the part that they always leave out:(Rocker59 motors increased sales from one (1) to two(2) vehicles last year. H-D was down to 235,000 from the previous year's 243,225 sales.)Yes, Polaris is kicking ass with Indian. But, but, but their volume increases (in numbers) are minuscule as compared to H-D. Harley Davidson makes more bikes per week than Indian does in two years !!!
Some of that 21st century innovation like............... ................................... ............Traction control, ride modes, cornering ABS, suspension that works, to name a few, and maybe improve handling capability or lighter more rigid frame design, engines that don't shut down a cylinder in warm riding conditions to prevent engine failure..... It's good to see H-D finally adopted ABS but a linked system.... WTF. BMW gave that up years ago.Paul
some of us like continued similar designThat evolves and similar parts can be available even on much older bikes, in my case the voltage regulator-stator Failure that costs $700 plus to fix, on a Softail with 12k miles, which led me to trade it in for a Victory.So there is some concern for durability with extended warranties costing a lot.
Harley is THE marketing success storey of the two wheel world, no question about it, HD is brilliant at selling bikes and the "lifestyle" image.
I see traction control as important on current Harley models as it is on the V7 series.............Handling is excellent on the models that prioritize it (i.e. that aren't lowered for customer reasons). Both my Sporty and RK do quite fine.The engine cut-out feature is not to prevent engine failure. Trust me I've gotten stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic on multiple EFI Harleys over the years in summer temperatures and sometimes for HOURS. And that's occurred on bikes with and without the system. And guess what, it never kicked in on the one that had it. Now granted that was my 07 and it wasn't as sophisticated a system as what is supposedly on my RK, so we'll see. But in any case the whole damned thing is about rider comfort when stuck in traffic. And it's a pretty smart system if you think about it. Most people who don't like Harleys don't bother to understand the technology they use and why they do it. They don't pursue tech just for tech's sake like BMW, they use it to address the needs/desires of their customer base, and I generally think they do a very good job of it. ............
Canuck 750 , your question regarding HD horsepower depends on where the 113 lbs ft of torque is measured . If it is taken at 3,000 RPM's that equals about 65 HP . At 3,500 about 68 HP . Dusty
So, you traded a Harley Davidson for a dead in the water Victory because it will have better long term parts availability and a better extended warranty ???
Really!!, 68 horse power, I thought they were putting out near 95 hp by now, my 72 850 Eldorado isn't too far off those horse power numbers.
Considering that other potential suitors are profit-only VC groups, Harley could be the safest harbor. Despite their seemingly hyper reliance on lifestyle rather than performance, HD is a two-wheeled vehicle. VC companies- at least in my industry experence- only have a passion for cutting everything to the bone searching for the last possible bare cent. They dumb the product, kill the marketing, and drive away the talent. Better Harley than Bain.
If you were to put your Eldo on a dyno, I'll bet you'd be lucky to see 40 rwhp which is maybe 50? bhp.
Oh goody! Can you imagine if they combine dealerships into one building? What a clash of cultures. Enough leather to, to, to...........sorry, I can't think of a good metaphor.
"Handling is excellent": Sure for a H-D, but not even in the same game as any Ducati. "The engine cut-out feature is not to prevent engine failure": So why is it there. I can attest to the fact that here in SW Florida it does indeed function as needed. "They don't pursue tech just for tech's sake like BMW, they use it to address the needs/desires of their customer base....."Most Harley riders don't know the value of technology, most want only noise and chrome, that I get.The tech can be a valuable safety feature, add to rider comfort and convenience, improve bike versatility. and in general make you a better rider. Spend a week on a BMW or Ducati and they'll understand.Paul
Bajaj? Builds bikes for KTM. Might be better than Harley.
Wasn't that venture capital turning Ducati round and actually making a success story out of the brand?
Really!!, 68 horse power, I thought they were putting out near 95 hp by now, my 72 850 Eldorado isn't too far off those horse power numbers.The Ultra is weighing in at over 900 lbs, no wonder the Road King and Street Glide's I rented in 2014 / 2015 felt like they had governors on them. The comments about HD applying technology only where it makes sense, just doesn't make sense. Better adaptive suspension, stability control, traction control, ... are valuable things, especially on a 900 pound machine.The build your bike pages kind of says it all, on the BMW web page you select options for safety, ergonomics, lighting etc, on the Harley pages you select trim, paint, chrome, custom wheels ........ all bling.
Harley's "lifestyle" image is dying a slow death and it's the death of my generation is taking them to the grave. HD built it on the growth of baby boomers and the housing boom. They all but went belly up during the recession because the first thing people shed during a recession is their image. Images cost money and if you are out of work and or taking a big pay cut that means by by disposable income. Harley's image has to change and I do not believe they can change it. How do you sell really big chrome motorcycles to the up and coming Millennium's. That are not into that. 1st quarter 2017 sucked big time. Low sales, left over revenue from 2016 and used MC prices lower. And all this with a 4.3% unemployment rate. ByAndrewTangelHarley-Davidson Inc.'s revenue fell 14% in the first quarter as the motorcycle maker's retail sales slid in the in the U.S. and abroad.Milwaukee-based Harley said it faced weak pricing on used motorcycles, a buildup of 2016 inventory at its dealers and sluggish sales in areas of the U.S. that depend on the oil industry, executives said in a call with analysts Tuesday.Revenue from motorcycles and related products of $1.33 billion came in below analysts' consensus of $1.36 billion.Earnings per-share fell 23% to $1.05 from the prior year. Net income was $186.4 million, down from $250.5 million in the first quarter last year. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters were expecting earnings of $1.02 per share.Harley maintained its outlook for the year, predicting full-year motorcycle shipments to be flat to down modestly compared to last year. The company didn't release revenue guidance.The company expects to ship approximately 80,000 to 85,000 motorcycles in the second quarter. That was below the FactSet consensus of 88,160. Harley has been reducing shipments of newer models to encourage dealers to shed existing inventory."
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