Author Topic: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .  (Read 11297 times)

Offline roadscum

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #90 on: June 22, 2017, 08:55:40 PM »

Paul, out of curiosity how many Harleys have you owned? How many have you ridden?

Not the same game as Duc, gee really? You mean cruisers, touring bikes, and classic standards don't have the same handling as sportbikes?

That's not the point though, when ridden on the street in even remotely responsible speeds they handle just fine and a number might surprise you.

As for your generalizations and love of tech I'm not buying everything you're selling. Having ridden Harleys for almost a quarter century I wouldn't presume to know what MOST Harley riders do or don't know about technology. That said many people aren't looking for the level is tech you can find on a BMW. Safety and comfort are fine goals but if that's what you really want then at some point a motorcycle isn't the right choice.

As a multi-time BMW and Guzzi owner I still seem to instead choose a Harley twice as often.

I'm selling nothing, just sharing my opinion Kev, it's as valid as yours We're allowed to have difference values and opinions when it comes to our rides. It's OK.

My opinions are based on my experiences. here's a brief synopsis: Been riding for 55+ years, was an MSF/instructor/rider coach in NY before relocating to Fl. I've lost track of the number of bikes owned and the number of times I've ridden coast to coast. Since retiring 13 years ago I average 20-25K miles/year. From '09 to '15 I kept a bike in Europe, Heidelberg Germany and would spend 8 weeks each summer touring Europe.  Spent a few years as a track junky 1st on a SV650 the a Triumph Daytona 675.

My 1st  H-D was an '89 FXR in 1990, then a FLHTP, 2 RK's the last an '04 Road King with a custom built motor by Cyclerama in Fl and heavily modified suspension, took it across country twice. Almost forgot the Buells, an S2 and a Uly. Last October I spent a few hours on a M8 RK and Street Glide Special when in Denver. I was considering a M8 RK but we just didn't bond. No suprise there. Instead I'll likely get a '17 V7 Special, blue of course to match the others in my garage.

During most of the 90's the lady in my life owned a H-D dealership in NY. During that period I road any H-D I wanted, was active in HOG, had dinner with V. Beals, Willie and Nancy, and others on several occasions at recognition evens.(She owned a high performing dealership) Have  had private tours of the assembly pant and the development center and have ridden with the executives. I think I have a fair understanding of H-D products, the business, and the culture.

Paul
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Offline canuck750

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #91 on: June 22, 2017, 10:00:13 PM »

As Dusty said peak dyno numbers are much more than your Eldo.

Can't say about what you rented but my new 2016 RK gets up and goes. I think stock 1/4 mile numbers are only in the 13's but hey it's an 800# bike.

You obviously didn't get the comment about applying tech where it is WANTED. 

The options for Harley include:

ABS
Cruise
Security
And yes lighting, as I've mentioned. For $50-75 you can convert the rear turn signals to additional running and brake lights.

Their catalog has LED headlights (standard on some models) and driving lights.

Sure there's plenty of chrome and other crap too, so what, it's not my thing but it doesn't mean all the customers only care about that.

I just don't see active suspensions or heated seats as such a big deal.

Doesn't mean the suspension on my RK is poorly designed or not up to the task.

<shrugs>

Fair discussion,  but If Harley Offered Dynamic Stability Control and/or traction control I wonder if buyers would pay for it?

I find it Ironic that most HD riders I see when in the United States (mostly AZ, NV, NM and CA) the majority are not wearing much if any protective gear and these riders would benefit more than most with more safety features engineered into the bike.

Most HD riders that I see around Phoenix don't wear helmets or gloves let alone a decent jacket. 'Fashion' leather such as a snap up vest or snap up chaps seem to be the de rigour apparel. I think it may be a case that most HD riders aren't going to pay for safety / technology. I think its unfortunate that fashion and conforming to the 'look' trumps common sense.

I spoke to a couple Sheriffs in Southern California last week who where on decked out Harley police bikes, the machines looked very impressive. I asked them how they liked them, I was on my old RT and they said they wished they had BMW's or the Concourse Police bike but that they do a lot of escort parade duty and in the past locals complained about the force being on foreign bikes. The Sheriffs said that the power, handling and safety features of the BMW were missed by most all of the force. Putting an officers safety at a disadvantage to appease local perception is sad.

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #92 on: June 23, 2017, 02:16:37 AM »
I'm selling nothing, just sharing my opinion Kev, it's as valid as yours We're allowed to have difference values and opinions when it comes to our rides. It's OK.

My opinions are based on my experiences. here's a brief synopsis: Been riding for 55+ years, was an MSF/instructor/rider coach in NY before relocating to Fl. I've lost track of the number of bikes owned and the number of times I've ridden coast to coast. Since retiring 13 years ago I average 20-25K miles/year. From '09 to '15 I kept a bike in Europe, Heidelberg Germany and would spend 8 weeks each summer touring Europe.  Spent a few years as a track junky 1st on a SV650 the a Triumph Daytona 675.

My 1st  H-D was an '89 FXR in 1990, then a FLHTP, 2 RK's the last an '04 Road King with a custom built motor by Cyclerama in Fl and heavily modified suspension, took it across country twice. Almost forgot the Buells, an S2 and a Uly. Last October I spent a few hours on a M8 RK and Street Glide Special when in Denver. I was considering a M8 RK but we just didn't bond. No suprise there. Instead I'll likely get a '17 V7 Special, blue of course to match the others in my garage.

During most of the 90's the lady in my life owned a H-D dealership in NY. During that period I road any H-D I wanted, was active in HOG, had dinner with V. Beals, Willie and Nancy, and others on several occasions at recognition evens.(She owned a high performing dealership) Have  had private tours of the assembly pant and the development center and have ridden with the executives. I think I have a fair understanding of H-D products, the business, and the culture.

Paul
I realized after I posted that we're largely arguing taste and that never goes anywhere. But I see from where your opinions come and if we disagree I think it's largely back to the taste thing. Though I seem to have to bow to your experience with other Harley riders. Maybe I'm a victim of coloring my perceptions too much with my optimism.

But thanks for taking the time to explain it.
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #93 on: June 23, 2017, 02:26:18 AM »
Fair discussion,  but If Harley Offered Dynamic Stability Control and/or traction control I wonder if buyers would pay for it?

I find it Ironic that most HD riders I see when in the United States (mostly AZ, NV, NM and CA) the majority are not wearing much if any protective gear and these riders would benefit more than most with more safety features engineered into the bike.

Most HD riders that I see around Phoenix don't wear helmets or gloves let alone a decent jacket. 'Fashion' leather such as a snap up vest or snap up chaps seem to be the de rigour apparel. I think it may be a case that most HD riders aren't going to pay for safety / technology. I think its unfortunate that fashion and conforming to the 'look' trumps common sense.

I spoke to a couple Sheriffs in Southern California last week who where on decked out Harley police bikes, the machines looked very impressive. I asked them how they liked them, I was on my old RT and they said they wished they had BMW's or the Concourse Police bike but that they do a lot of escort parade duty and in the past locals complained about the force being on foreign bikes. The Sheriffs said that the power, handling and safety features of the BMW were missed by most all of the force. Putting an officers safety at a disadvantage to appease local perception is sad.
Well at least at a few dealerships I've dealt with it's hard to find a model without ABS so I suspect the Harley public, at least regionally WILL pay for safety features, but I'm sure there's a sliding scale where if they get too expensive it would drop off.

Phoenix and much of the Southwest is a different world when compared with the east coast. The temps alone discourage many from attgat.

I'm not going to try and say that the BMW and Harley demographics share a lot of the same priorities, but I think both you and the motor officers in question are putting more faith in safety tech than I do. That's not to say I discount it completely, but the single most important factor is the nut behind the bars, the rest equals a ever increasingly smaller and smaller percentage of the stats.

I still don't know that even I'd care about DSC or TC, especially on the types of bikes I ride. But yes I can see some value in it for motor officers. Just how much though I dunno. I think much would depend on their duties which around here doesn't really seem to me highway patrol or high speed pursuit.

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Online Murray

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #94 on: June 23, 2017, 05:07:28 AM »

Paul, out of curiosity how many Harleys have you owned? How many have you ridden?

Not the same game as Duc, gee really? You mean cruisers, touring bikes, and classic standards don't have the same handling as sportbikes?

That's not the point though, when ridden on the street in even remotely responsible speeds they handle just fine and a number might surprise you.

As for your generalizations and love of tech I'm not buying everything you're selling. Having ridden Harleys for almost a quarter century I wouldn't presume to know what MOST Harley riders do or don't know about technology. That said many people aren't looking for the level is tech you can find on a BMW. Safety and comfort are fine goals but if that's what you really want then at some point a motorcycle isn't the right choice.

As a multi-time BMW and Guzzi owner I still seem to instead choose a Harley twice as often.

Harleys ride like every other cruiser out there including Guzzi 1400s and that is bloody awlful, yes some are less worse than others. If that is acceptable to you great go and enjoy your motor cycle but the fantasy story that something thats has compromised dynamics all for a look is pretty good compared to almost everything else out there is just that. Its friday here BTW :P

Online Kev m

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #95 on: June 23, 2017, 06:10:32 AM »
Harleys ride like every other cruiser out there including Guzzi 1400s and that is bloody awlful, yes some are less worse than others. If that is acceptable to you great go and enjoy your motor cycle but the fantasy story that something thats has compromised dynamics all for a look is pretty good compared to almost everything else out there is just that. Its friday here BTW :P

Subjective and I'm tired of arguing that.

PS - said "compromised dynamics" = not just Harley (and arguably everything now from Guzzi), but also the majority of road going motorcycles in the US.
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Offline roadscum

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #96 on: June 23, 2017, 08:45:52 AM »
I realized after I posted that we're largely arguing taste and that never goes anywhere. But I see from where your opinions come and if we disagree I think it's largely back to the taste thing. Though I seem to have to bow to your experience with other Harley riders. Maybe I'm a victim of coloring my perceptions too much with my optimism.

But thanks for taking the time to explain it.

No problem Kev. Sorry I was so long winded, that happens to me sometimes after a few IPA's.  :boozing: :boozing:

It would be nice to swap stories with you face to face. I always enjoy a chat with an honest enthusiast.

Paul
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Online Kev m

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #97 on: June 23, 2017, 08:47:15 AM »
No problem Kev. Sorry I was so long winded, that happens to me sometimes after a few IPA's.  :boozing: :boozing:

It would be nice to swap stories with you face to face. I always enjoy a chat with an honest enthusiast.

Paul
:thumb:

No one on a forum EVER needs to apologize to me about being long winded.  :grin:


Or having a couple of IPAs!  :boozing:


Agreed, it would be fun.

Thanks again for the discussion and refreshed perspective.


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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #98 on: June 23, 2017, 03:14:03 PM »
It occurs to me that we aren't really talking about motorcycles, but the difference between a motorcycle enthusiast and an adult toy collector. I know some really sharp riders and some real moto-knuckleheads. Both of these demographics spend a bunch of money on bikes/gear. Can you blame a manufacturer for marketing to both groups?
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Offline roadscum

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #99 on: June 23, 2017, 03:39:36 PM »
It occurs to me that we aren't really talking about motorcycles, but the difference between a motorcycle enthusiast and an adult toy collector. I know some really sharp riders and some real moto-knuckleheads. Both of these demographics spend a bunch of money on bikes/gear. Can you blame a manufacturer for marketing to both groups?

I like the way you think, right on!  :thumb:

Please, no more about your adult toy collection,  not here....  :whip2:

Paul

Paul
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #100 on: June 23, 2017, 04:16:54 PM »
It occurs to me that we aren't really talking about motorcycles, but the difference between a motorcycle enthusiast and an adult toy collector. I know some really sharp riders and some real moto-knuckleheads. Both of these demographics spend a bunch of money on bikes/gear. Can you blame a manufacturer for marketing to both groups?
That's true for sure, but arguably there are some of each in both the Harley and Ducati camps, and probably a few in the BMW camp too, though I suspect a smaller percentage.
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #101 on: June 23, 2017, 04:38:25 PM »
 I have this scary mental image of packs of Ducati riders wearing assless chaps and sporting get back whips . Hhhhooowwwwaaaahhhh . Thanks a lot guys .

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Offline JJ

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #102 on: June 23, 2017, 05:04:41 PM »
I think at the end of the day...if I were ever to buy a Ducati...it would be something like THIS!!  :thumb: :1: :cool:





« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 05:05:31 PM by JJ »
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Offline redrider90

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #103 on: June 23, 2017, 05:16:59 PM »
I think at the end of the day...if I were ever to buy a Ducati...it would be something like THIS!!  :thumb: :1: :cool:





That was my first Ducati I bought new in 1973. I traded I a 1972 HD FX Super Glide which was easily the worst Harley ever produce.
One  can blame AMF for this debacle but Willie Davidson himself designed this bike that was supposed to lift Harley Davidson from the ash heap.
Instead in just helped bury the company deeper in the bog. It was lucky to recover.
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Offline canuck750

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #104 on: June 23, 2017, 06:22:46 PM »
It occurs to me that we aren't really talking about motorcycles, but the difference between a motorcycle enthusiast and an adult toy collector. I know some really sharp riders and some real moto-knuckleheads. Both of these demographics spend a bunch of money on bikes/gear. Can you blame a manufacturer for marketing to both groups?

I think I have a foot on both sides of that line. For every day riding I have owned very few bikes, I tend to keep them for 10+ years and they are just tools to get me out on the road and see the country, I love my motorcycling not my motorcycle. I have been a long distance rider for twenty years and don't much enjoy a ride of an hour or two around town. My current long time favorites are my KLR 650 for solo riding, I have put on 40,000 km on a couple of them in the past 5 years. Second useful bike is my old RT but I tend to only use it for two up riding.

On the other side of the game is my love of restoring old motorcycles. Before I got into Guzzi's I sold every Japanese bike I rebuilt. I really like the Guzz's and some of the other Italian bikes I am working on, for the time being I have been hanging on to them but that is starting to change due to lack of space and not using then enough. I guess keeping the old bikes is toy collecting and I never intended that to be the case.

I am going to let go of either my V7 Sport or 750S this summer, any takers?
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Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #105 on: June 24, 2017, 12:29:07 AM »
Well Canuck 750, I'm a little bit like you, in that when I buy another bike (or scooter) it's to keep a long time, not replace in a year or 2 like some. When I buy another rig new or used (mostly) it's to meet another need I find I have for a different way of enjoying MC riding.  I don't buy any rig hoping to break even on it's cost.  Instead I buy a rig to meet my perceived personal needs at the time.  Then I get so attached to them I find it hard to get rid of them.  :huh:

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #106 on: June 24, 2017, 08:03:09 AM »
Posted on facebook...the new "Ducati-Davidson!"  :laugh: :grin: :wink: :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:



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Online tazio

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #107 on: June 24, 2017, 10:11:47 AM »
Another stroke of LOST marketing/name recognition for Guzzi. (i.e. ~what the hell's a gootsie?)
All Moto-Guzzi(Piaggio) had to do was put it out there that THEY ALSO are bidding for Ducati.
EVERYONE would have been scrambling to learn about this unknown upstart.

Just a thought I had. 
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #108 on: June 24, 2017, 11:20:58 AM »

 :thumb: I like it.  :smiley: Pretty creative.
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Offline Unkept

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #109 on: June 24, 2017, 11:23:25 AM »

 :thumb: I like it.  :smiley: Pretty creative.

And to be fair... it *is* an improvement over your current Harley lineup.  :grin:  :evil:
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #110 on: June 24, 2017, 11:56:35 AM »

Offline TOMB

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #111 on: June 24, 2017, 06:57:36 PM »
So Harley will take an Ducati  engine with minimal to no vibration and reengineer it to vibrate/shake to fit the corporate image?
TOMB
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #112 on: June 24, 2017, 07:26:28 PM »
Well, need I say it makes no sense to me? Maybe they learned something with the MV debacle? Funnel some money, leave them alone, and skim some profits? That might work. Harley putting their "brand" on Ducati, or expecting sport bike people to be in the least interested in Harley is just not a tenable position. <shrug>
Of course.. they didn't ask me.  :smiley:
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Re: Harley may buy Ducati threadfest .
« Reply #113 on: June 24, 2017, 09:56:06 PM »
 Maybe HD just wants the Ducat Flat Track engine .

 Dusty
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