Clutch problem?

[Billy]

I am new to MG, and almost immediately after buying a second hand V7R 1TB, there was a loud screech (like a slipping fan belt sound) coming from the engine. The dealer took the bike back to fix it, and ended up installing a new thrust bearing and clutch.

So today I went to pick it up for the second time, with new parts installed, and tested (they rode it 10miles with the new parts they said). All fixed, apparently.

But... when I went to pick up the bike, I sat on the bike, started it, dropped it into 1st gear, stalled it on take off (seems very touchy), started it again, and almost immediately again (after the engine struggling a bit, surging then acting like it was going to cut out) the screeching started again!

My research on these forums lead me to believe replacing the thrust bearing and clutch should of fixed this. But it didn't.

I'm quite certain they did replace the thrust bearing and clutch. I saw the order, and they are honest.

What could it be? The dealer promised to have another look, but they are baffled it seems.
Could it be something simple like the clutch is not adjusted properly? Or something else completely?

[Huzo]

Welcome to the forum Rick. You will get good advice here. When you pull in the clutch, is it screeching BEFORE the the clutch begins to take up ? Wondering if it's the bearing or the friction material squealing on take up ? What do you hear when you sit in neutral at idle and just hold in the lever ?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Perhaps it's one of the V7s with the crankshaft thrust bearing issue?

[pete roper]

Perhaps, but a bit more info on the bike would help. Model year? Five or six speed box? I thought it was only the six speed V7-II's that were afflicted with the thrust face issue? Has the cable needed constant adjustment?

Pete

[pat80flh]

Gearbox full of oil?

[Huzo]

Gearbox full of oil?

FULL ?!!!

[TimmyTheHog]

Perhaps, but a bit more info on the bike would help. Model year? Five or six speed box? I thought it was only the six speed V7-II's that were afflicted with the thrust face issue? Has the cable needed constant adjustment?

Pete

My gut feeling is the same as Pete here.

Is the clutch properly adjusted?

[Huzo]

 :bike-037:c

My gut feeling is the same as Pete here.

Is the clutch properly adjusted?

But why does imperfect cable adjustment CAUSE a screech ? Granted, a constantly increasing amount of play in the cable would indicate something lunching itself, but the clutch either is disengaged or engaged. I'd like to know if the screeching occurs when the faces are apart and bearing under load ( lever in while in neutral), pointing towards a shagged thrust race, or at the moment that the faces are sliding together on take up, indicating maybe poor friction material or a contaminant on the surface. Is it suggested that the screech is from the 'box and not the clutch per se? I'm not claiming to understand, I'm just interested.

[TimmyTheHog]

:bike-037:cBut why does imperfect cable adjustment CAUSE a screech ? Granted, a constantly increasing amount of play in the cable would indicate something lunching itself, but the clutch either is disengaged or engaged. I'd like to know if the screeching occurs when the faces are apart and bearing under load ( lever in while in neutral) or at the moment that the faces are sliding together on take up, indicating maybe poor friction material or a contaminant on the surface.

I am no expert (here we go again), but sounds like to me,the clutch plate is not fully engaging the flywheel which might be slipping even when the handle bar lever is fully let go.

if the clutch free play or rather non-of-it, it would be pulling the clutch apart just ever so slightly...

then again, I could be talking out of my ass...but this is my 2 cents

[guzzisteve]

If they have a different bike available, buy it. Back out of the bike you bought.

Specially if they can't fix it.

[pete roper]

But why can't they fix it Steve? It's a bloody Guzzi! The closest thing you can get to just being two wheels and a horn! It only has seven moving parts for heavens sakes???

[pehayes]

Pete is right.  The first few diagnostic examinations are free.  The third won't take too much shop time.  Beyond that it could get expensive.

First, put one finger on the clutch hand lever.  Bend down to look at the action lever at the back of the transmission.  Pull lightly on the hand lever to take up slack.  Does the action lever move?  Is there any freeplay in the system?  It must NOT be adjusted up taught.  There has to be a point when the system is free of any loading so that the throwout bearing can rest.

Second, lay under the bike and LOOK at the outer body of throwout system.  Ideally, it will be flush with the surrounding transmission casting.  If the clutch plate has a problem, the outer body will become proud of the casting.  If the throwout bearing has a problem, the outer body will become recessed.  What do you see?

Third, not too many minutes to pull the swingarm and remove the supposed new throwout bearing for inspection.  The two race washers should be mirror smooth.

I'm referring to early version smallblocks.  If Guzzi redesigned the throwout system, then all of the above is garbage.  Other experts chime in.  BTW, I have photos of the above outer body conditions if anyone wants them.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont A

[Huzo]

I am no expert (here we go again), but sounds like to me,the clutch plate is not fully engaging the flywheel which might be slipping even when the handle bar lever is fully let go.

if the clutch free play or rather non-of-it, it would be pulling the clutch apart just ever so slightly...

then again, I could be talking out of my ass...but this is my 2 cents

But why the screech TTH? When a correctly functioning clutch is being slipped on take off, it doesn't necessarily screech..

[pete roper]

So, one post, requests for more info, no reply.

Sayonara. We tried.

Pete

[Billy]

Thanks for the insights everybody - unfortunately I can't to any of the tests to answer any of the questions since I don't have the bike (the dealer does).
I think the first time it happened, the noise did go away when in neutral, clutch lever pulled in. suggesting thrust bearing(?) I suppose.
But then they replaced that, and the noise came back. But then, from what everyone has said, it might now be an incorrectly adjusted clutch. Or --- and I didn't check, see this, the pin or nut on the clutch cable transmission side is not on there. But, again I'm just guessing cause I don't have the bike 

[Billy]

But why can't they fix it Steve? It's a bloody Guzzi! The closest thing you can get to just being two wheels and a horn! It only has seven moving parts for heavens sakes???

This is funny :)

[Huzo]

This is funny :)

Well mate, I applaud your sense of humour..

[pete roper]

You still haven't stated whether it's a five or a six speed? One of the common problems with the five speed is people don't put enough oil in the gearbox. The gearbox takes a litre but there is some confusion because of the terminology Guzzi uses in their spec sheets and, (Despite Presumably having just drained a litre of old oil out.) they put in only whatever the small amount specified for the bevelbox is, (185-200ml?) into the gearbox.

Leaving aside the fact one has to assume the half blind quarter wit who does this is then left with the task of trying to pour a whole litre of oil into the bevelbox, (A lot of it will end up on the outside!) the fact remains that the amount of the wrong oil in the gearbox is woefully inadequate and yes, oddly enough, the bearings will start protesting!

If this is what has occurred then this pack of Rhodes Schollars owe you a gearbox! And no, just 'Topping it up' isn't good enough. If the bearings are singing then they're dead! The case hardening on the pinions will be heading west too.

Pete

[Billy]

You still haven't stated whether it's a five or a six speed? One of the common problems with the five speed is people don't put enough oil in the gearbox. The gearbox takes a litre but there is some confusion because of the terminology Guzzi uses in their spec sheets and, (Despite Presumably having just drained a litre of old oil out.) they put in only whatever the small amount specified for the bevelbox is, (185-200ml?) into the gearbox.

Leaving aside the fact one has to assume the half blind quarter wit who does this is then left with the task of trying to pour a whole litre of oil into the bevelbox, (A lot of it will end up on the outside!) the fact remains that the amount of the wrong oil in the gearbox is woefully inadequate and yes, oddly enough, the bearings will start protesting!

If this is what has occurred then this pack of Rhodes Schollars owe you a gearbox! And no, just 'Topping it up' isn't good enough. If the bearings are singing then they're dead! The case hardening on the pinions will be heading west too.

Pete

Pretty sure its the 5 speed gearbox (I say pretty sure since I haven't actually ridden it), since I don't think the 6 speed was put onto the v7s in Australia (started with the v7 II). Interesting what you say about the oil issue.

Damn - I hope its not the gearbox though. They'll replace it, but it means more weeks waiting until they get one delivered from Italy.

[pete roper]

So where are you and this lump o' munt located in Oz?

[oldbike54]

 When did we go from 6 to 7 moving parts , WTH Pete 

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

One of the parts is broken = 7.

ANYbody knows that. . .  .   

[Billy]

So where are you and this lump o' munt located in Oz?

Melbourne [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[pete roper]

So who's working on it? Which shop?

[Billy]

###### #########

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[pete roper]

Oh dear.

[ITSec]

Oh dear.

Eloquence in two syllables...

[Billy]

Update: yep. Looks like it was the gearbox. Since its so low mileage probably someone didn't put enough oil in it. Supposed to be 1l. Guzziology says 1.1l to be safe. The manual calls the rear drive a transmission recommending a lot less oil. So umm yeah someone probably stuffed up and didn't put enough oil in the gearbox.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[pete roper]

As I said, if the bearings were squealing its buggered. I've been here before with other bikes in the last ten years. We aren't allowed to use the word that rhymes with 'Duck' on this board but I feel like saying it often.............

[MotoBug]

I hope you can back out of the deal Rick. From what you say it seems you've not had possession of the bike so legally I would think you could.