Author Topic: Bacon Slicer project  (Read 60180 times)

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2017, 11:01:50 PM »
Nice Sed, looking forward to the obligatory mountain photos  :popcorn:
That may take a while...  especially if it needs a mag rebuild or new carb.  I'm just trying to get it running to find out what I bought!  :cheesy:
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2017, 11:26:03 PM »
The oil tank leaks - ARG!!!  Explains the oilyness of the cylinder when I first saw it.





Crack under the paint. Darker crack to the left is the leaker - other is more of a crease.




Will use some JBWeld and sealer to get by...

They make repops in Italy!  (probably not cheap...) http://www.pillondorino.com/index.php?_r=2511&id=195&cat=25-65
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline jas67

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2017, 01:35:52 PM »
Why not just get your tank welded and be done with it?
2017 V7III Special, 2013 V7 Racer
1977 Le Mans :grin: :grin:
1974 Eldorado  :grin:
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2013 848 Evo Corse SE, 2004 749, 1974 750GT, 1966 Monza 250
2007 Vespa GTS250
2016 BMW R1200RS, 80 R100S, 76 R90S ,73 R75/5
2000 Kawasaki W650
76 Honda CB400F, 67 305 Super Hawk, 68 CL175

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2017, 11:01:43 PM »
Why not just get your tank welded and be done with it?

The tank is made of at least 13 parts not counting the rivets and pipe fittings inside the tank. There are two pipes in the tank. There is both brass and lead solder all over the tank so it may never have been welded (1930s technology). It has dented corner seems on both sides and solder and brazing repairs to the bottom and the vent fitting in addition to the dent repairs. These tanks were originally chromed so that the circular bulges on each side could be polished, but the dents, creases and filler (and corrosion?) make it seem like an impossible repair.

It should look like this:




So I will patch it to look like the rest of the bike...  :cool:

1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2017, 11:01:43 PM »

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2017, 11:34:06 PM »
Before I noticed the oil leak I did some work on the controls.

The bars are not original. GTVs originally had bars with clamp on levers and a spiral throttle. These have lever perches welded to the bars.  Probably off an Alce or something. And a twist grip throttle - Super Practic.






It's got chain drive!




Cleaned up and ready to put together.

      


When I got it the throttle would only open 2/3 so had to do some cable work. 
Repaired throttle, choke and advance cables.




Still need to fix clutch and front brake cables...

1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 11:37:13 PM »
Went to a friend's who's had a few Ducati singles and he had an surplus top ring for a Dellorto SS carb and it has the same threads as the MC26 top cap for the GTV. 

Only difference is the MC26 carbs have a larger top cap - 35mm vs 32.  So chuck it up in the lathe and cut out the center:




New carb top installed.




Just a note about the carb interchangeability - the old MC26 style carbs have a long main jet like the SS carbs, but the threads are 5mm on the MC26 and 6mm on the later SS carbs.  Earlier I'd tried a Mikuni "large round" jet, but it is too short - the tapered needle bottoms against the Mikuni.  No substitute for the correct Dellorto jet.

Made up a clutch cable and routed the cables along the frame.




1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2017, 12:22:58 AM »
Update on the leaking olio tank...

After thorough cleaning (gasoline fallowed by laundry detergent followed by spray degreaser) I ground out the cracked paint and bondo and laid in a fillet of JBWeld.




There were 2 messy repairs and seams were lifting inside the tank so also pickled the inside of the tank with Ospho and coated the inside with tank sealer.  This is a cheap and cheerful fix to a tank that is probably not fixable and totally in keeping with the condition of the rest of the bike.   :laugh:

The tank was originally soldered and brazed up from steel sheet and brass fittings, then chromed.  It had been dented and previously repaired several times and had solder, braze, filler and paint hiding it all.  There is a messy brazing job along the bottom and sloppy soldering job at the breather fitting. To repair this mess for chrome seems impossible so may eventually $pring for the repop:




Finished repair has been oil tight for 2 days.




Getting closer!   :bike-037:


1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Online RinkRat II

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2017, 09:33:59 AM »
     
       SED,

    We love this stuff!! Thanks for sharing,  :bow:  :popcorn:

       Paul B :boozing:
A Miller in the hand is worth two in the fridge.

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2017, 10:43:29 AM »
Thanks RinkRat. It's fun to see the progress, especially with the controls where you can feel the difference.

A little more on the clutch and brake levers - they're weird.  They have perches welded to the bars (Not OEM. Alces and some other Guzzis had welded perches, but apparently not GTVs). 

The levers don't have a slot for the cable - instead they use a small cable end trapped in a hollow barrel secured with a cotter pin.

   


Someone once posted about how cluttered the handle bars of some bikes looked with their brake and clutch cables or hoses sticking out all over.  It could be worse - the Slicer has 3 large levers and 2 small ones each with its own cable, plus there's the horn button!   :grin:   Ariels are similar.  Though today we have headlight, turnsignal, starter and kill switches too.   :bike-037:
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2017, 11:57:55 AM »
Just added the wrench icon to this post so it's easier for me to find.  Can we get a bacon icon???

After attaching the advance cable I timed the mag at 45 degrees full advance (seems a bit much, but that's how I read the book). There are arrows embossed on the crankcase and flywheel to mark TDC so just used a drafting square to find 45* - as Chuck would say:"this is not rocket science".   






So the engine controls are working now, it has circulating oil, spark, the carb is complete, the gas tank and taps are clean - so the only thing it needs is fuel. Once it is running I will want to ride it around the block, but the brakes were horrible when I rode it - effective squealers, but not much else - so to avoid temptation I've not installed the gas tank and seat and instead taken apart the rear wheel to address a few issues.

Master clip wrong way around:




The rear wheel rotated about 30 degrees  :shocked: before the rear sprocket would pull on the chain?!
There is a cush drive in the sprocket hub - so something is definitely wrong:




And the rear wheel seemed to be dragging and it wasn't the brakes.  Fixing these problems has been one of the most satisfying parts of the project so far.

Pulling apart the bearings revealed standard 6204 bearings  :thumb:  But someone had replaced original felt seals with thicker rubber seals that were distorted and worn. This also shows why the cush drive allowed so much wheel rotation - missing 1/2 the cushions.


 

Someone had tightened things so much that they'd crushed the distance tube between the bearings!




Quick trip to NAPA for new 6204 sealed bearings and to Hardware Sales for a chunk of rubber and some cleaning and polishing. Full floating axle in 1934 - Mr. Guzzi was an engineer!  (Picture is missing a spacer on the right)

 


Cut new cush drive rubbers from an $8 block of rubber with a hacksaw.

   



Not a lot I could do about the brake - it's almost 8" diameter but only 3/4" wide - it has the swept area of a gnat.




Cleaned the parts, including the super sticky grease from the cam pivot. Someone had thoughtfully painted the brake cam   :rolleyes:  so removed the paint. cleaned and sanded the friction surface on the shoes and drum.

       


Back in the frame with master clip installed correctly, chain tensioned and wheels aligned.

   


Gotta do the front next...
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2017, 02:46:43 PM »
Quote
Cut new cush drive rubbers from an $8 block of rubber with a hacksaw.
:thumb:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2017, 03:10:09 PM »
This is a great thread! Thanks for letting us come along on the project :)

 :popcorn:

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline lorazepam

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2017, 05:16:30 PM »
A most excellent thread! You make it look so easy.

canuck750

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2017, 06:49:55 PM »
Great thread  :bow: :bow:

Offline jas67

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2017, 09:07:27 PM »
Great thread  :bow: :bow:

 :1:

And, I love the Bacon avatar!
2017 V7III Special, 2013 V7 Racer
1977 Le Mans :grin: :grin:
1974 Eldorado  :grin:
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2013 848 Evo Corse SE, 2004 749, 1974 750GT, 1966 Monza 250
2007 Vespa GTS250
2016 BMW R1200RS, 80 R100S, 76 R90S ,73 R75/5
2000 Kawasaki W650
76 Honda CB400F, 67 305 Super Hawk, 68 CL175

Online nick949

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2017, 04:48:53 PM »
Great thread SED - really enjoying it. :popcorn: :bow:  It makes me realize how sophisticated and modern the Nuovo Falcone is.  :boozing:

Nick

Online JJ

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2017, 07:22:09 PM »
Here is my "Bacon-Slicer" appetizer for this evening...courtesy of Chef Karen  :wink: :cool:

Fresh Kadota (or Adriatic) green figs, sliced in two, roasted pecan halve in center, topped with Lavender infused goat cheese...wrapped in BACON...baked for 6 minutes....MMMMmmmm mm-BOY!!  :1: :thumb:





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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2017, 01:11:27 AM »
If they still have brake houses in your area, they can probably reline the brakes.  Search "brake and clutch relining".

Looks like you're charging right through it!

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2017, 12:14:20 AM »
Wow!  Thank you for all the enthusiasm and suggestions.  Will post more tomorrow.
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2017, 11:19:31 AM »
After the rear wheel work went so well it was time to do the front - especially work on the brake which was a squealer but not much else.




Front brake is even smaller than the rear at 7" x 3/4".

   



A long time ago someone brazed gussets into the girder. Scary looking but no cracks. Something to watch carefully...

   



Tapered wheel bearings on a full floating axle and lots of sticky grease.





Someone had staked the nuts to the ends of the hollow axle and it took hours to clean up the threads.  Bearings ready for reassembly into the hub.  Rings above the bearings are felt seals. Brake side on the right.





Drum side.  Circle of bumps are spoke heads.





The brake shoes were only making contact on the cam end of the shoes so added a shim to the fixed end so that the shoes would make contact along more of the their length. Removed the paint from the cam and cleaned and lubed the cam pivot with moly grease. Pivot bearings are bronze castings.  collar on the backing plate is to catch grease that gets past the felt seal before it contaminates the brake shoes - clever!

   



Pulling the front wheel revealed that the steering head bearings were very loose.  Time to grease them.  Pulling a girder off the steering head is a hassle because you need to pull a pivot pin and then end up fighting the mainspring on reassembly.  So just loosened the nut until I could see the bearings. Look OK from here  :boozing:  so pack them with grease.

   



Used a tie-down strap to raise the fork to get at the upper bearings.  Tightening the steering head bearings made such a difference that the bike sits more upright on the bench. (Lots of slop remains in the girder pivots - a project for the future...)  Mr. Guzzi even used a pinch bolt to clamp the top yoke like a modern bike!





Front wheel back in the fork.





« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 11:29:39 AM by SED »
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2017, 12:20:20 PM »
Carlo who also has a GTV came by and we worked on some things that needed doing.
Removed and cleaned out the oil line that drains the rocker box.





Removed and cleaned the spring box cover (chrome bumps) and replaced the missing bolt.  It appears that the rear suspension preload can be adjusted by removing the cover and tightening the nuts.





Still needs a brake cable.  I had a new brake cable with the wrong end - the cable end was too large for the slotted barrel (this is clutch cable):





So chuck up a brass bolt in the lathe and cut it down to 7mm diameter.





The bolt was cross drilled for the cable, and one side counter sunk for the splayed ends and soldered into place (from JBNicholson):





BTW it is very easy to overheat the wire strands using a torch.  The wire becomes brittle and breaks (been there, done that).  Use a soldering iron. 


Lever, pivot and barrel were cleaned up and lubed and installed:





Casing was cut to length and a new end installed on the other end of the wire. (If the ends are fixed to the wire it is worth aligning the ends so that the cable doesn't have a twist when both ends are connected.)  I had a cable ferrule that fit into the yoke for the brake lever.  Lightly crimp ferrule to hold it in place, splay wire ends, solder in place and clean up end with file or grinder.

   



Brake cable installed.  Cable took hours to make, including a run to Hardware Sales for the brass bolt.  Total cost $1.18.  :grin:





Can we ride yet???

« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 12:32:49 AM by SED »
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Online RinkRat II

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2017, 12:30:56 PM »

 It's always to your advantage to have a assistant named Carlo whilst working on Italian machinery! :thumb:

       Paul B :boozing:
A Miller in the hand is worth two in the fridge.

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2017, 12:42:02 PM »
It's always to your advantage to have a assistant named Carlo whilst working on Italian machinery! :thumb:

       Paul B :boozing:

Yes indeed!

Carlo just sent me some pictures:

          
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2017, 02:37:07 PM »
"Someone had staked the nuts to the ends of the hollow axle and it took hours to clean up the threads. "

Those bunged up threads -- do you have a thread file?  $10 item at the local Tru-Value or other usual suspect.  Looks like this RANDOM EXAMPLE from ebay (no need to mail order):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jawco-8-Nu-Thred-Thread-Restoring-Metric-File-0-80-3-00mm-TPI-MADE-IN-USA-New-/141350808650?hash=item20e92a2c4a:g:pc0AAOSwibJTyEYc

Handy as duc tape!  I use it mostly for axles and the engine/transmission mounting thru-bolts, since they often get the threads bunged during hostilities. 

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2017, 08:39:44 AM »
Quote
and it took hours to clean up the threads.
You mean you don't have a die to clean up those threads? <scratching head>  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2017, 12:19:10 PM »
"Someone had staked the nuts to the ends of the hollow axle and it took hours to clean up the threads. "

Those bunged up threads -- do you have a thread file?  $10 item at the local Tru-Value or other usual suspect. 

Handy as duc tape!  I use it mostly for axles and the engine/transmission mounting thru-bolts, since they often get the threads bunged during hostilities.

You're right, I need a metric thread file or die (have 3 inch-pitch files including one for Brit threadforms) so I bought one this morning.  :grin:

But a thread file wouldn't have helped anyway because the guy had used a punch to stake around the nut in 4 places which reduced the ID of the nut and pinched the outer threads.  Local tool seller had a 18mm x 1.0 tap, but it was $$$. 

He also had 7mm x 1.0 (pre-standardization) tap and die for some of the weirder bolts and nuts. Got them to clean up the 7mm exhaust studs and nuts that are hammered.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 12:34:06 AM by SED »
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2017, 12:32:22 PM »
If you have an 18mm bolt, you can hand grind some flutes and a little taper on the end to "make" a thread chaser.
If your lathe can cut metric threads (or close enough) you can clean up those external threads, too. Takes a little finessing.  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2017, 01:10:35 PM »
There is something in one of the tool boxes on the bike - probably a gold ingot.   :grin:





Don't have a key, but easy to make when you know what the lock looks like.





Homemade key:





Jackpot!





Must carefully unwrap like the shroud of Turin:

       



The other tool box held the golden fleece.  (Padova is about 150 miles from Mandello del Lario.)

   




The "Shroud of Mandello" laid out on the workbench:





If you look closely you can see an image of Carlo preserved in the shroud:  :evil:





My favorite hardware store had a key that fit with a little modification.  It is called a bit and barrel key.





Does anyone have any recommendations for preservation of the Shroud of Mandello?    :popcorn:

« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 01:16:05 PM by SED »
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2017, 01:13:46 PM »
If you have an 18mm bolt, you can hand grind some flutes and a little taper on the end to "make" a thread chaser.
If your lathe can cut metric threads (or close enough) you can clean up those external threads, too. Takes a little finessing.  :smiley:

That's a great idea Chuck. It's back together so I'll try that next time.
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2017, 01:27:20 PM »
Nice find.  :thumb: I love finding stuff like that on antique machines..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

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