Which Guzzi to Buy?

[The_Rev_J]

Hello everybody. I'm new to Moto Guzzi but have been riding motorcycles and maxi scoots for a long time.  I've been shopping for a new motorcycle to replace my old scooter. We have a local Moto Guzzi dealer, and I've liked what I've seen there. So I'm looking at a few different models and thought maybe you could advise me.

I want to be able to ride whenever the weather is nice, to commute to work most days, and to take some day long 2 up rides with my wife.  I doubt I will take any long multi-day trips.

I generally like the look and feel of Cruisers, but the comfort and position of a sport touring bike. I ride for relaxation and fun, I don't push my bike hard, don't flick it around corners and don't push the acceleration.

They have available a new 2016 V7 Stone that's on deep sale right now. It's at the top end of my price range, but for what I want I would need to add windshield and luggage, which would likely push it over my price range.

Devon 1997 California with 21,000 miles 4 $4,500. It has bags but no windscreen at this time.

They have three norcia's currently available used. A silver 2007 with 32000 miles for $4,500. It's pretty basic has a top box and no other options. They have a red 2007 with 10000 miles for $5,600. Topbox no other options.  They have a silver 2009 with 20000 miles for $6,500. This one has engine guards highway pegs a throttle Commander and cruise control.

These are what I'm looking at. The dealer is usually pretty willing to work on price. What's a good deal? What's not? What's the least problem prone and will give the most reliable service? Is 10000 miles too few miles for a 2007? Do I need to worry that it's been sitting for a long time? What would you buy if given the option? Before I pull the trigger on any one of these what should be checked on each model?

Thanks so much!

[The_Rev_J]

Incidentally,  at another shop I ask looking at a 2007 1100cc V-Star  Silverado with 26,000 miles for $3,300.

Also looking at a 2007 Honda ST1300 with 110,00 miles for $4,000.

[Huzo]

Hi Rev and welcome. Try the red '07 for size and have a darn good "test" ride. If you get it, do the startups interruptus mod and get the swing arm and suspension linkage bearings greased and have the oil pump checked PROPERLY. BTW does it look like this one? 120,000 k's


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[The_Rev_J]

I rode the other '07 and loved the feel,  very comfortable and a nice ride.   What is the mood that you speak of?

Next time I go I will ride the red (it's my wife's favorite).  I'll also see if I can get a list of what has been done to it/ inspected by the shop.   I happen to know that most nights the mechanic rides it home.

[fotoguzzi]

they are all priced a bit on the high side, the 97 should be more like $3,000..  The Norges are a lot more bike but still a little high priced.. and there was a problem with some dash boards failing and if that happens the bike won't even run if it dies.
30,000 miles is not high for a Guzzi big block.

[The_Rev_J]

It's a small shop, they don't sell many bikes.  With 3 in stock I can probably cut a good deal.

Any fans of the '97 California?

[Huzo]

I rode the other '07 and loved the feel,  very comfortable and a nice ride.   What is the mood that you speak of?

Next time I go I will ride the red (it's my wife's favorite).  I'll also see if I can get a list of what has been done to it/ inspected by the shop.   I happen to know that most nights the mechanic rides it home.

Do you mean the mod? It's a very simple modification to the starter circuit, it's very well documented here and it takes away the possibility of a malfunction that can sometimes occur, if you research it here you'll be fine.

[Idontwantapickle]

Rev J

I have a 2007 Norge that I bought new in 2010. It is a fantastic bike! There are things that can be done to it that make it better but the bottom line is that in spite of all the discussion we have here on the forum about the Norge and other CARC bike "issues" they are 99% FANTASTIC right out of the box. All I've done to mine is update to a better fuel map to make it run like it should, a small wiring mod to help make starting more reliable and the maintenance it requires.
If you get one there are many people here that will sincerely help you with anything you need know, myself included.
But whatever you get, enjoy it!
Hunter

[fotoguzzi]

It's a

Any fans of the '97 California?

tube type wheels, different TPS than the EV and no cheap Harley replacement, those are my negatives. Otherwise a true workhorse!

[Chuck in Indiana]

The 98 was quite an upgrade from the 97..

[twowings]

Riding position is subjective, BUT I will tell you the Norge is a honey of a bike and underappreciated... I wouldn't hesitate to ride my '08 across several continents and back again...see if you can get an extended test ride on one...don't know your geographical location but check out Moto International and Hamlin Cycles...some great deals to be had...

[The_Rev_J]

Thanks for all the info!   Is there anything to combed the '09 over the '07?  Did any changes happen over those years resulting in better reliability or improved features?

[alanp]

Others will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the '09 and later models have the 4 valve per cyclinder motor (vs. 2).  Personally I would prefer the 2 valve engine which would be the 2007's.  It is a good engine with more power than you will ever need.  The 4 valve motors are less proven, introduce some other issues, get poorer fuel economy.  Other differences in the bikes are pretty minor. 

One thing that would be worth doing is getting the VIN numbers on the 2007s and posting them up here.  Some of the very early 2007 bikes had a few issues that need to be corrected if they haven't been already, and the VIN will tell you if they are "early" models or not.  I know there are people on here who know about this in detail, but I do not.  The issues I recall are a water pump problem and a weak rear shock spring.  The other issue people mention is Startus Interuptus.  This is common to all the Norges and is an easy fix.  A place in Houston sells a kit to fix it.  Not a big deal. 

Lastly, based on what you have said I think you would like the Norge over the California.  It is a much more modern and capable motorcycle with good ergonomics and wind protection. 

[JJ]

Since you are going to ride TWO-UP...that is a big consideration, (...believe me....)  so IMHO, you could not go wrong with a Stelvio, a Norge, or a California, set up correctly... :1:

Good luck with your decision...and just go GUZZI! :1:

[The_Rev_J]

Yeah,  two up is the reason for the switch.   For some wholly unknown reason,  the two of us are now too heavy for the variator on my 250cc scooter to deal with.  Time for a real transmission.

[Huzo]

Yeah,  two up is the reason for the switch.   For some wholly unknown reason,  the two of us are now too heavy for the variator on my 250cc scooter to deal with.  Time for a real transmission.

Alan said water pump but it's oil pump, just an oversight so not trying to be a smarty, would not have mentioned it except you may have wondered. The starter fix is as simple as stuffing a fused wire of decent gauge, straight into the yellow wire on the starter relay plug. DONE !!! Do the greasing of the suspension linkages and swing arm pivot tapereds and GO ! All good advice from previous posts, the perceived superiority of 4VPC versus 2VPC is well documented here. There was a post on it way back titled 4V versus 8V, a good read !

[ITSec]

they are all priced a bit on the high side, the 97 should be more like $3,000..  The Norges are a lot more bike but still a little high priced.. and there was a problem with some dash boards failing and if that happens the bike won't even run if it dies.
30,000 miles is not high for a Guzzi big block.

The dashboard failure is extremely rare with the Norge, it was the Breva and Sport that suffered from that problem the most.

The 2007 Norge has a weaker rear shock/spring than later models, and is less suitable for two-up than 2008 and later. Many 2007 units have had upgraded suspension added by their owners, so this should be checked. 2008 and later came with a stronger rear suspension from the factory.

Some 2007 models suffer from a problem with the oil pump. Most of these are either dead by now, or have been fixed, but it is still something to be checked. VIN / engine numbers are a guide, but not infallible in identifying bikes that may be subject to this problem. If caught before failing, the fix is just to replace the impeller assembly if I recall correctly.

The early 8v Norge models are subject to the same concerns re roller conversion as any other 8v CARC Guzzi. As far as I know, US 2009 models were still 2v engines. I don't believe the Norge got the 8v engine until the 2010 model year, and very few units were imported in 2010; 2011 was the major re-introduction of the model in the US (i.e., magazine articles, etc.).

Of the models you mention, I think the Norge is the best suited to your purposes. The ST1300 is a very good bike, but is made for short people - I found it much more cramped than the Norge or other sport-tourers. If you find the Norge cramped, an inexpensive adjustment is to use alternate footpegs (gives an inch or so more legroom). For more upright posture, spacers below the stock bar risers or a switch to the Heli-Bar risers will put you more straight up.

My 2008 Norge (new in 2011) has been reliable, comfortable and enjoyable for 126,000 miles. Reasonable care by an experienced rider will allow the bike to be very inexpensive on a cost-per-mile measure.

[alanp]

Thanks for the correction Huzo.  Yes, oil pump, not water pump, on the early 2007s.

And I am sure ITSec is correct about the engine, 2009 and 2007 are essentially the same, but the 2009 would have no oil pump concern, no rear shock concern, and a plug in the fairing to make checking the oil easier. 

[Turin]

The '97 Cali will pretty much run forever with basic maintenance. I'm not that familiar with the newer bikes.

[Huzo]

Thanks for the correction Huzo.  Yes, oil pump, not water pump, on the early 2007s.

And I am sure ITSec is correct about the engine, 2009 and 2007 are essentially the same, but the 2009 would have no oil pump concern, no rear shock concern, and a plug in the fairing to make checking the oil easier.

Ok Alan, not trying to be picky, just was for the Rev's sake..

[jdgretz]

I'm another Norge enthusiast.  Bought my '07 new in '09 and have put 80,000+ miles on her.  She has been virtually trouble free.  I had Todd at GuzziTech upgrade my suspension (HyperPro rear shock, front springs, and cartridge emulators) which turned it into a completely different animal.  Way more capabilities than I will ever have.  I also had a custom seat made (Bill Mayer Saddle) as I needed something that worked for multiple days in excess of 600 miles per day.  I've now done over 1000 miles in 24 hours and could have stayed in the saddle longer if necessary.  Of course the saddle was about an inch taller, so Heli-bars to bring the geometry back to about stock.  Added a Cal-Sci windscreen to reduce the wind buffeting on the wife.

The Norge has been the best bike I've ever owned.

Once I learned exactly how much oil she wanted in the sump, we were fine.  All Norges will spit out some amount of oil when filled to factory spec.  That's just a fact of life with a Norge.  Once you accept that, and find out where on the dipstick that point is, only fill to there and you'll be fine.  They take about 10,000 miles to be truly broken in.  Until then, they keep running better and better.

Simple maintenance, and use the recommended 10w60 oil (there is another thread here about that) and there is no reason the bike won't outlast you.

If you get the '07, make sure you either have a dipstick extension already installed, or the '08 left lower (mid?) with the plug and late model dipstick, otherwise you have to remove the three lower fairings to check or add oil, which is a real PITA.

Many of us have removed the lowers and chin fairing (pillar in Guzzi speak) and replaced them with the chin fairing from the 1200 Sport (less then $30) for a cleaner look and not having to deal with the tabs that seem to break a lot.

There really aren't a lot of options for the Norge.  They came with electric windshield, heated grips, panniers, and enough electrical power to handle heated gear, GPS (multiple), radar detectors, and darn near anything else you want to add.  Make sure you get the panniers.  I've seen some bikes where the panniers have been lost - that's $1200 from the dealer. Oh, and if the side stand bumper hasn't been trimmed, you'll want to do that as the stock position allows the side stand to drag way too soon.

This is from a couple of years ago, before I pulled the lowers and added the Cal-Sci



Enjoy,

jdg

[Huzo]

That's a nice shot actually!

[jdgretz]

That's a nice shot actually!

Thanks.  That was shot on Mulholland Highway at the top of the Snake by the local photog, Paul Herold of RockstorePhotos.com .  I need to get him to do another one with the latest configuration, gear, and mustache.

jdg

[JJ]

Agreed!  Good photo!  :1:




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[Travlr]

Kudo's to your wife!   

Good pillion riders are hard to find.

M

[Tkelly]

Re prices too high: the dealer has to make a living and will be a lot easier to deal with when you need service than if you bring in your great deal bike.You are lucky to have a local dealer.

[Huzo]

Yeah,  two up is the reason for the switch.   For some wholly unknown reason,  the two of us are now too heavy for the variator on my 250cc scooter to deal with.  Time for a real transmission.

So how's it going ???

[The_Rev_J]

Re prices too high: the dealer has to make a living and will be a lot easier to deal with when you need service than if you bring in your great deal bike.You are lucky to have a local dealer.

Dealer is a great guy. W have a good rapport and he has serviced my Kymco for 3 years.   

Waiting to hear back from a job interview that will finalize for me exactly how much extra I have to spend!