Cyclist flies off cliff NGC

[fotoguzzi]

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/08/09/motorcyclists-survives-plunge-off-cliff/

[Socalrob]

The rider claims the steering locked up.  Is that possible?

[oldbike54]

The rider claims the steering locked up.  Is that possible?

 We just had a case of that happening , however in this instance it appears the rider was incapable of countersteering the bike into a tighter radius . In other words he was in over his head .

 Dusty

[Rotten Ralph]

Seems like he went where he was looking.

[Socalrob]

We just had a case of that happening , however in this instance it appears the rider was incapable of countersteering the bike into a tighter radius . In other words he was in over his head .

 Dusty

In the video it looked like the guy just ran straight off the road.  Maybe even no braking.

I suppose it's possible to get a key ring jammed in the steering head.  My V7iii actually had a warning sticker for that.

Not a Harley, so no get back whip to jam something up.

I suspect the rider lost concentration and ran off the road.

[cubswin]

The rider claims the steering locked up.  Is that possible?

Definitely can happen as it just happened to me two days ago. I'd been having trouble turning my key to the fork lock position for a couple of weeks and then it started to stay locked even when I turned it on. I was able to wiggle the handlebars to unlock them. Should have taken it in, but I'm an idiot (once it was unlocked it seemed fine). Then in Tuesday during a very slow speed turn, my forks completely locked and down I went. Not fun.

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[Socalrob]

Definitely can happen as it just happened to me two days ago. I'd been having trouble turning my key to the fork lock position for a couple of weeks and then it started to stay locked even when I turned it on. I was able to wiggle the handlebars to unlock them. Should have taken it in, but I'm an idiot (once it was unlocked it seemed fine). Then in Tuesday during a very slow speed turn, my forks completely locked and down I went. Not fun.

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Good to know.  I'm guessing the steering lock was somehow out of adjustment and caught?  Maybe I should cut mine off as I never use them.

[Lannis]

The rider claims the steering locked up.  Is that possible?

Certainly possible that he CLAIMED that it happened.

Easier than claiming that he went into the turn too hot, got on the brakes, stood it up, and target-fixated right off the road, which looks like what happened ....

Has happened to all of us at some point, we just caught it before we went over the cliff and didn't NEED to claim that the steering locked up ....

Lannis

[redrider90]

He target fixated and did not counter steer. I took a bunch screen shots as the video ran and looked at them in sequence. As he entered the curve the angle of his handle bars decreases revealing lack of counter steering. His speed is also decreasing indicating his is off throttle.  The further he goes into the curve the more his bars move to parallel to the ground. He literally straight lined it into that curve and off the cliff. He had plenty of space to low side it and didn't even do that.

[lorazepam]

I would rather pick gravel out of my elbow, than tree limbs out of my butt.  He had plenty of time to keep from going off the cliff.

[RinkRat II]

 Not sayin' it cant happen BUT on my sport the lock engages at about  28 degrees from centerline and I didn't see his bars anwhere near that until he encountered the trees. My K75 is nearly full lock before it engages. 
       
       Situational awareness.......0
        Physics/Laws of  Nature....1

       Paul B

[cubswin]

Good to know.  I'm guessing the steering lock was somehow out of adjustment and caught?  Maybe I should cut mine off as I never use them.

I have a Breva 1100 that's now at the dealer as they're trying to figure out what happened. From I've been told,  the fork lock is essentially a pin that drops into a hole or against the fork when activated. If the pin breaks, it can potentially engaged the lock regardless of fork position. No clue if that's what happened to the guy in the video, but mine completely locked as I was trying to turn.

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[Steph]

He target fixated and did not counter steer. I took a bunch screen shots as the video ran and looked at them in sequence. As he entered the curve the angle of his handle bars decreases revealing lack of counter steering. His speed is also decreasing indicating his is off throttle.  The further he goes into the curve the more his bars move to parallel to the ground. He literally straight lined it into that curve and off the cliff. He had plenty of space to low side it and didn't even do that.

Pretty much what you said. The guy  claiming he was only doing 40mph in the video shows how dilusional he is. I think his speed was 68mph entering the curve with the bike on the white line not leaned over.
He is lucky to be alive.

[groundhog105]

He went right where he was looking.  Rider panic and froze.

[cubswin]

Good to know.  I'm guessing the steering lock was somehow out of adjustment and caught?  Maybe I should cut mine off as I never use them.

I'm not sure. The dealer is looking at it. I'm having them get rid of it just in case.

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[Lannis]

Pretty much what you said. The guy  claiming he was only doing 40mph in the video shows how dilusional he is. I think his speed was 68mph entering the curve with the bike on the white line not leaned over.
He is lucky to be alive.

Just to repeat what no one else has said ... He's leaned over going 67 MPH.   Three seconds later, he's getting ready to go off the cliff at 37 MPH.

Nobody thinks he got on the brakes, thereby standing it up and eliminating his ability to steer properly, in addition to the target fixation, watching bug-eyed as eternity approached ... ?

That would be a Most Likely scenario for a newbie ...

Lannis

[cruzziguzzi]

Hey - at least he didn't hit that pole on his way into the wild-blue.


Causes aside - shows the value of learning to toss a bike away in one's youth, regardless the circumstances there either.



Todd.

[nc43bsa]

Anyone recognize the bike from the speedo cluster?

[Nic in Western NYS]

Entered too hot, came off throttle and lost lean angle, tumbled down cliff

[chuck peterson]

There for the grace of God and several riding courses go I....

I find the slant of the article very telling. An accident? I think not...it was bad teaching, as in we allow riding without real single track learning...

The article has a slant that says look how brave this soul was to take on motorcycles and survive...look what bikes will do to you...suddenly and without notice you can be hurled off a cliff

Yes and now we can congratulate this gentleman for deciding to end his two wheel career....wow, that was a close call, GOOD THING IT DIDNT HAPPEN TO YOU, better sell all your bikes now because it'll kill you.

Which pretty much suggests to any testosterone laced youth to go find a bike...and the circle continues...

What if the news report said if for what is was-target fix, poor execution on two wheels. I feel for the rider because of a lack of training, not skill

The reporting carries on a lot of bs about riding

See what I mean?

[Randown]

The rider missed the sign warning 25 MPH curve ahead & entered it at 67. The curve then reveals itself to be tighter than he'd estimated.

He may have had better luck attempting to rail it with a steep lean angle but it looks like he instinctively reacted to bleed speed & keep the bike upright.

It all seems very common when riding in the mountains, a rider is constantly making estimates & adjusting as conditions reveal themselves. If you're riding at 85% of your skill level & underestimate a curve by 25% you're in over your head.

...it was bad teaching...

Bad teaching?  How do you know? Should MC licenses be withheld until a rider is capable of railing a corner at 3X the posted limit? Maybe he knows what he should have done but reacted differently.

[Lannis]

I find the slant of the article very telling. An accident? I think not...

I have to give our local paper credit ... they have stopped using the word "Accident" in association with road crashes.

With very few exceptions, road crashes are never "accidents" except in the sense that people involved wish it hadn't happened.   Incompetence, inattention, addiction, road rage, too fast for conditions, there's always a cause, a choice on someone's part, and those aren't "accidents".   

As you say, neither was this ...

Lannis

[oldbike54]

We just had a case of that happening , however in this instance it appears the rider was incapable of countersteering the bike into a tighter radius . In other words he was in over his head .

 Dusty

 Like I said ...

 Having discussed these types of crashes with literally tens ( ) of crashers , the one constant is that they panicked , stood the bike up and rode the brakes straight off into a tree . Or in this case , straight off a cliff . There is a Y intersection in NE Oklahoma where both legs
are curved that usually has a gravel pile in the Y section . I have personally known two riders who have plowed into said pile because they didn't trust in the laws of physics .

 Dusty

[cruzziguzzi]

Anyone recognize the bike from the speedo cluster?

Yamaha FZ-10.

Todd.

[oldbike54]

Yamaha FZ-10.

Todd.

 So the lesson is don't buy an FZ 10 ?

 Dusty

[Lannis]

So the lesson is don't buy an FZ 10 ?

 Dusty

Not if you've got more testosterone than you have riding experience.

I taught my 16-year-old how to ride on the street using my Centauro.   A "Beast" for sure ... unless you simply control the throttle, and then it acts the same as a 350 Honda.

We see (if we look) an awful lot of youtube videos of first-time riders taking off.   Me, if I were on a strange bike with a lot of motor, I'd stall it 3 or 4 times, limp-wristing the throttle, before I got going.   But these folks get on a Ducati Monster or FZ Yamaha, and think they're supposed to whack the throttle open and dump the clutch .... ?

Lannis

[cruzziguzzi]

So the lesson is don't buy an FZ 10 ?

 Dusty

Nah - I think the lesson is: Don't mind about that scraping sound and look where ya wanna go.... Also, it's OK to throw it away!
But, mayhap a fella should not in fact have been on an FZ-10 in the first place so yeah, Dusty, maybe that IS the lesson in this case.



Todd.

[oldbike54]

 Todd , I knew would come to the same logical conclusion 

 Dusty

[Gliderjohn]

One thing that was always pounded into my head as student pilot was "never give up". If you stick with that attitude AND training with how to deal with at least some common likely situations you will be much less likely not to panic and will be more likely to deliver yourself or at least minimize he damage when SHTF.
GliderJohn

[Lannis]

One thing that was always pounded into my head as student pilot was "never give up".

Although you have to qualify that, somewhat, depending on what goal you are "giving up".

From what I can tell, more pilots have been killed trying to save a blown approach than any other single error.   They don't want to seem like they can't "handle it", and although they may fly all the way to the ground, it's still the ground ... 

Related to that is the "cocoon effect" in which a combat pilot is extremely reluctant to eject in a bad situation, because he's extremely familiar with "his office" and believes his training will see him through, whereas outside the cockpit is nothing but uncertainty and 400 mph wind and shocks and impacts and a perception of failure ... And as a result, he waits till "too late" ....

So a lot of it is perspective.   What's the goal?  you have to ask yourself ...

Lannis