Extracting a very recessed screw - completed!

[ITSec]

OK, there have been some recent threads similar to this so maybe I'm one of those being talked about in the threads on duplicate posts - but I think not!

I was in the process of removing the sump on the Norge today, and (of course) had removed all the hex head machine screws but the last - one of the four up under the oil filter in the middle of the sump. That one stripped its hex head (5mm) even though I was using a quality tool that had successfully broken all the others free without a quibble.

Unfortunately, the one that stripped is way the f* up inside the sump in a semi-circular cavity, meaning that any tool must be about 3 inches (7cm) long to reach it! I've never seen a screw extractor that long, I don't know of an extension holder of the appropriate size for such a thing, and about the only trick I can think of to do this is to use a long Torx bit as mentioned in another thread (without the recess problem).

Any other suggestions?

[cruzziguzzi]

First, put all of the others back at a respectable torque.

Then, with a decidedly smaller than original hex item, give the stuck one a couple of goodly taps with a hammer.

Then try a sacrificial torx of the closest tightness. May need to tap it on in. This is where finesse and experience pays off.


No joy? A couple-three more taps with the punch or whatever you previously used.

Todd.

[ITSec]

First, put all of the others back at a respectable torque.

Then, with a decidedly smaller than original hex item, give the stuck one a couple of goodly taps with a hammer.

Then try a sacrificial torx of the closest tightness. May need to tap it on in. This is where finesse and experience pays off.


No joy? A couple-three more taps with the punch or whatever you previously used.

Todd.

Some helpful info, but the 'goodly taps with a hammer' are somewhat difficult - unless I turn the bike upside down! 

[rodekyll]

If it's too deep in the hole to get at, I remove the hole.   

Get a 1/4" left-handed drill bit and go at the head.  I've got a right-angle drill motor for that.  Either the bit will grab the head and spin out the bolt or it will spin the head off the shaft.  If the former, you're golden.  If the latter, you're platinum -- just drop the pan off to expose the shaft and spin the shaft out with pliars or a stud remover.

You know this is going to be a girl-dog no matter how you approach it, right?   

[Rough Edge racing]

Some helpful info, but the 'goodly taps with a hammer' are somewhat difficult - unless I turn the bike upside down! 

  Lean the bike over against a wall on the cylinder head..Use padding  and a strong friend...

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Some helpful info, but the 'goodly taps with a hammer' are somewhat difficult - unless I turn the bike upside down! 

if u use an allen from your socket set with an extension snapped onto it, maybe able to improvise a 'slidehammer' using the extension

[guzzisteve]

1/4" drill bit and off w/the head, at least you can get to it.

[ITSec]

I'll probably have to try the Torx first, and use the drill off the head approach as a backup. *sigh*

At least I have a 1/4" left handed bit...

[rodekyll]

I'll probably have to try the Torx first, and use the drill off the head approach as a backup. *sigh*

At least I have a 1/4" left handed bit...

I'd be disappointed if you didn't.   

There's a 12-point fastener commonly called a "cheesehead" (why I don't know -- maybe invented in WI?) that is similar to an allen or torx.  It might be easier to drive in and it might give more purchase.

[not-fishing]

I bought a set of these to pull out rounded screws / bolts.  I've been amazed at how well they work and really really sad when they didn't

[Bob Wegman]

If the hex isn't really hogged out, you might have success with placing some valve grinding compound on the hex bit to take up the slack and get enough bite to loosen the screw.  It has worked for me before.

[n3303j]

<SNIP>
There's a 12-point fastener commonly called a "cheesehead" (why I don't know -- maybe invented in WI?) that is similar to an allen or torx.  It might be easier to drive in and it might give more purchase.

Cheese head refers to the shape of the head of the threaded fastener, not the type of tool the head requires for installation  or removal.



gif image host

[ITSec]

I bought a set of these to pull out rounded screws / bolts.  I've been amazed at how well they work and really really sad when they didn't

Those sometimes work well, but there's not enough space to get anything around the head - I have to work on the head itself, and it's nearly 3" up inside the recess for the oil filter.

[rodekyll]

Cheese head refers to the shape of the head of the threaded fastener, not the type of tool the head requires for installation  or removal.



gif image host

Thanks for the clarification.  I did a search for the proper name and couldn't find one.  I guess you couldn't either.    That's why I said "commonly called" and then described it.  There are a lot of names for fasteners.  I would have called the one in your pic a "flat fillister". 

[redhawk47]

I have used this type of screw extractor
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=1189&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=3742&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8b_MBRDcARIsAKJE7lm0f34S_txNQ8iPodL414x_jR7NHiv_9P35OMjUrcQwL6yFxj0XQ0saArV7EALw_wcB
You run your drill in reverse, it drills a hole and the tapered spiral grabs the screw that turns it out. I don't think I paid this much for my set.
I have found less expensive versions with the drill on one end and the tapered spiral on the other end.
Both will need an extender.

[ITSec]

I have used this type of screw extractor
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=1189&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=3742&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8b_MBRDcARIsAKJE7lm0f34S_txNQ8iPodL414x_jR7NHiv_9P35OMjUrcQwL6yFxj0XQ0saArV7EALw_wcB
You run your drill in reverse, it drills a hole and the tapered spiral grabs the screw that turns it out. I don't think I paid this much for my set.
I have found less expensive versions with the drill on one end and the tapered spiral on the other end.
Both will need an extender.

I have a similar set - the problem is the extender. The drill chuck is bulky, and the extenders are as well - and they don't fit into the deep recess.

I really can't understand why with so many extractors on the market, no one makes one 3 inches long!

[wirespokes]

A trick I was taught in the 80s was using vibration. Because different things vibrate at different rates, you can use that to your advantage. If you strike something it will vibrate. If you have two things - like a steel bolt threaded into an aluminum block - they'll definitely vibrate at different frequencies. And when they do, they tend to break bonds between them.

It doesn't take superhuman blows - in fact, a lot of light taps work best.

Since you can't get in there with the hammer, use a drift or long bolt or piece of steel rod to hold up against it and hit that with the hammer.

If you can get some heat in there - propane torch - that will also help. The two materials heat and cool at different rates and expand differently. That will help break the bonds.

Do you have an impact wrench? If you can find a socket that will grab the head, one of those hand held impact wrenches (hit with a hammer) could do the trick.

[Huzo]

I have a similar set - the problem is the extender. The drill chuck is bulky, and the extenders are as well - and they don't fit into the deep recess.

I really can't understand why with so many extractors on the market, no one makes one 3 inches long!

You can make an extension relatively easily on the lathe by taking a piece of 3/8" shaft and boring a 1/4" hole in one end. Tap the drill in the hole and hit it once with the welder.

[ITSec]

You can make an extension relatively easily on the lathe by taking a piece of 3/8" shaft and boring a 1/4" hole in one end. Tap the drill in the hole and hit it once with the welder.

True - if I had a lathe - and if I had a welder. 

[Chesterfield]

In a pinch ( big pinch )  you can take a regular right handed bit, snap or angle grind the shank off, shape accordingly with a grinder then put it in your drill broken end out and use the drill in reverse like a left handed bit. It has worked.

[tris]

  Lean the bike over against a wall on the cylinder head..Use padding  and a strong friend...

 :1:

Access is often your friend in cases like this as you can "let the dog see the rabbit"

May be nip down to your local charity shop and acquire an old bean bag so that you can lay the bike on its side.

However, given its a Norge you might need to take some of the plastics off

[Vagrant]

Harbor freight has a impact driver for $5-10. get it and a set of torx and allen head 3/8 extensions. If it doesn't have directions look it up on U tube. do the bean bag chair and tap gently.

[redrider90]

On eBay for $15

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50pc-Extra-Long-Security-Bit-Set-Tamper-Proof-Torx-Star-Tri-Wing-Pozi-w-Holder/112096667571?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D8d36e48f09474edea0ca18f5b7acbf9b%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D382110107897&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507

[Idontwantapickle]

In a pinch ( big pinch )  you can take a regular right handed bit, snap or angle grind the shank off, shape accordingly with a grinder then put it in your drill broken end out and use the drill in reverse like a left handed bit. It has worked.

That's still gonna be a righty.

[Farmer Dan]

blow all the shavings and dirt out of the socket.  Find a bit that fits tight.  put JB Weld on the bit and stick it back in the socket.  Let it setup overnight.  Come back next morning and turn it out.  Has never failed to work for me.

[gearman]

You say hex head machine screw? Is it a socket head(recessed)head? What size,6mm?

[ITSec]

You say hex head machine screw? Is it a socket head(recessed)head? What size,6mm?

Yes, I should have said socket hex head. It's a 5mm size. Fortunately, all the sump screws are identical. I was taught that a machine screw always has a socket/Phillips/slot/Robertson head, while a bolt would have a plain exposed hex head, so I tend to abbreviate the terms.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I know I'm picking the fly sh!t out of the pepper, but there *is* a hex head machine screw.

[redrider90]

I know I'm picking the fly sh!t out of the pepper, but there *is* a hex head machine screw.

Most obvious one is the valve cover hex head machine screw.

[Chesterfield]

That's still gonna be a righty.

Nope, put a drill in you chuck backwards. Spin it in reverse and watch the flutes go down into the hole