Author Topic: Electrical Enigma  (Read 2757 times)

Online oldbike54

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Electrical Enigma
« on: September 29, 2017, 07:44:31 PM »
 OK , something quite odd is going on with my Jackal . Everything was fine until I decided to do some tail light repair , haven't touched the wiring only pulled a bulb . Noticed the brake light was staying on after replacing the bulb , thought maybe the switch was just stuck . Nope , now when the rear pedal is engaged the brake light goes off . Also noticed that the dash lights are NOT lighting up until the rear pedal is depressed  :huh: The pump and head light are coming on with the key . It has to be a short somewhere , but no fuses are blowing . Any ideas besides maybe a fairy is inhabiting the system ?

 Dusty
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Online Moto

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 07:48:05 PM »
Bad ground, causing circuits to find alternate routes back to the battery?
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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2017, 07:51:09 PM »
Bad ground, causing circuits to find alternate routes back to the battery?

 Yeah , will check that . It was all working before pulling that bulb . Hate this kind of thing .

 Dusty
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beetle

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 08:05:44 PM »
Itís faeries.

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 08:14:54 PM »
If it's a double-element bulb, check to see that it's seated correctly.  But I agree that it sounds like a ground problem.  You can check that by using a jumper wire to a reliable ground source (like the battery).


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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2017, 08:26:16 PM »
It�s faeries.

 Mark , would you be kind enough to send some of that Beetle Brand Faerie Remover/Repellent (tm)?
I don't want to harm them , just to relocate them .

 Dusty
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beetle

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2017, 08:36:15 PM »
You just need to leave a saucer of milk beside the Jackal.

Simples!

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2017, 08:41:59 PM »
He's in Oklahoma, Beetle.  They don't have those things there.  I looked.

beetle

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2017, 08:57:26 PM »
I donít know a real lot about Okie faeries, but I would imagine a glass of beer might work too. Preferably dark ale or stout. Drink one yourself, first, of course. Itís courteous.

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2017, 09:05:38 PM »
  :laugh:

 You guys are a lotta help  :rolleyes:

 Dusty
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Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 09:16:05 PM »
I vote on the goofy ground action too. You have to knock the funk off a bike every now and then Dusty :afro:
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beetle

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 09:19:27 PM »
You should check to see if you Dustified the tail light. Pull the new bulb.

More helpful?  :laugh:

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2017, 09:24:12 PM »
I vote on the goofy ground action too. You have to knock the funk off a bike every now and then Dusty :afro:

 Oddly enough I just cleaned everything a couple of weeks back , maybe it's the new upholstery  :shocked: Seriously , the only thing I did was pull the tail light lens to replace the missing socket , which hasn't been done yet , and move the headlight bucket up just a skosh , like 1 degree . Tomorrow I'll sort it out .

 Dusty

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Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 10:07:31 PM »
Oddly enough I just cleaned everything a couple of weeks back , maybe it's the new upholstery  :shocked: Seriously , the only thing I did was pull the tail light lens to replace the missing socket , which hasn't been done yet , and move the headlight bucket up just a skosh , like 1 degree . Tomorrow I'll sort it out .

 Dusty

Are you back to wearing that layer of TIN-foil under yer skid lid again? :bike-037:
Not anti social, pro solitude.

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2017, 10:09:21 PM »
Are you back to wearing that layer of TIN-foil under yer skid lid again? :bike-037:

 Asbestos , tin foil was causing too much static .

 Dusty
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Online Tom H

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2017, 10:13:03 PM »
OK , something quite odd is going on with my Jackal . Everything was fine until I decided to do some tail light repair , haven't touched the wiring only pulled a bulb . Noticed the brake light was staying on after replacing the bulb , thought maybe the switch was just stuck . Nope , now when the rear pedal is engaged the brake light goes off . Also noticed that the dash lights are NOT lighting up until the rear pedal is depressed  :huh: The pump and head light are coming on with the key . It has to be a short somewhere , but no fuses are blowing . Any ideas besides maybe a fairy is inhabiting the system ?

 Dusty

Just a thought, try a different bulb?? Could be a bad one.

What was the repair??

Good luck,
Tom
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Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2017, 10:20:19 PM »
Just a thought, try a different bulb?? Could be a bad one.

What was the repair??

Good luck,
Tom

That would be the 1st think to check <shrug>
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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2017, 10:26:00 PM »
 Already tried that , it isn't the bulb . What is baffling is that the system is working in reverse , switch activated and the brake light is deactivated , and for some reason the dash and headlight are only working with the brake light switch activated . I actually believe it may be related to the ever so slight upward rotation of the headlight bucket .

 Dusty
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2017, 11:02:38 PM »
Oh -- working in reverse.  Gotcha.  That's easy.



Go the other way.   :grin:


If the movement up front disturbed a ground, then yes, all or any of  the stuff that swings with the handlebar could be trying to ground through the brakes circuit.  Think generator idiot light -- except the brake bulb is the idiot light and the power from any or all of the swinging stuff is the charging system.  Now add a brake switch to control it, and there you go. 

Grounds are always neglected in troubleshooting, but they're always as suspect as anything else.  Your grounding lug is I think under the left side trim plate forward of the tank.  It's a cluster of black wires, mostly small gauge.  The bolt is probably loose.  Should be an easy fix, unless you broke some.

The real fix is probably to toss the Jackal tail lights and bolt on a tractor tail light.  Then you won't have all those aromatic red herring in the story.  Put a couple of D-rings on the bracket and you can carry more stuff.

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 11:20:28 PM »
 Yeah , but then the neighborhood cats won't follow me home everyday . OH MEOW  :food:

 Dusty
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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2017, 07:01:57 AM »
Do you have the stock double light as shown?
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2000_Jackal.gif
or the single like this EV?
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif
Note how there's a wire connecting the tip light to the park and dash lamps.
Visualize what happens if part of the black wire is missing (not connected) between lamps.

I can pretty much guarantee you are missing a ground there somewhere and it's grounding through another lamp, perhaps even the left and right flashers to the front.
I could guess all day how its happening but at the end of the day you still need to ground it properly.
Instead of jumping from lamp to lamp as shown each lamp should have it's own ground connected in star fashion that way its impossible for the juice to go through 2 lamps in series.
The star point needs to be run back to a good ground on the main chassis, perhaps a gearbox bolt.
Use petroleum jelly aka Vaseline on all the connections and splices, that will stop the wires rotting away in a couple of years.

While you are at it go over the grounds around the headlight and dash.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 07:36:10 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2017, 08:42:12 AM »
If the bulb is simply removed, does all else act normal? No doubt you have considered this, but I thought I would mention it anyway, just in case. Next would be metering the leads in the tail light assembly. If you had wires disconnected from the socket(s), perhaps they ended up in the wrong place on reassembly. Also, even though you didn't mess with it, the wires, once they go under the fender with the tire, have been known to get rubbed through and cause weird things to happen such as you describe.

And finally, when was the last time you waved a rubber chicken over the bike? If it has been a while, you might be experiencing lakachicken syndrome.

John Henry
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 08:42:33 AM by Zoom Zoom »
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and the flying motor singing.
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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2017, 08:56:04 AM »
 Lackachicken syndrome  :laugh: Wait ... is that like real thing ?

 The wiring going to the "empannage" (for you A/C types) has been moved outside of the fender , although I am gonna check there first , because it's easy  :laugh:

 Dusty
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2017, 09:07:26 AM »
Let's hope you didn't let the Okie Faerie Fart Smoke out. Sounds like rusty grounds to me.
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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2017, 10:24:56 AM »
[
 , and for some reason the dash and headlight are only working with the brake light switch activated . 

 Dusty
[/quote]
Perhaps you should start by adding a decent ground to the headlight, I usually run one from the headlight bucket around the steering head to the main chassis skipping the connector

When you put the brake on you are grounding the headlight through left and right blinkers
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 10:29:10 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2017, 10:52:27 AM »
 Thanks Roy , am in the process of checking the grounds and running an extra lead , allergies kicking my tush , makes me slow .

 Dusty
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Offline gliderjohn

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2017, 12:12:06 PM »
From Dusty,
Quote
allergies kicking my tush , makes me slow .
Marley's suffering the same with you.



GliderJohn
John Peters
Walton, KS

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2017, 12:24:22 PM »
From Dusty,Marley's suffering the same with you.



GliderJohn

 Gonna have to visit Marley again , give him a pat from me  :thumb:

 Dusty
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Offline gliderjohn

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2017, 01:05:15 PM »
Marley says you're welcome anytime.
GliderJohn
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 01:12:25 PM by oldbike54 »
John Peters
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Electrical Enigma
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2017, 03:09:12 PM »
Lackachicken syndrome  :laugh: Wait ... is that like real thing ?

 The wiring going to the "empannage" (for you A/C types) has been moved outside of the fender , although I am gonna check there first , because it's easy  :laugh:

 Dusty

Dusty, the only thing worse than lackachicken syndrome is lackanookie disease.  Either will distort your mojo, but lackanookie disease can make you grumpy, too.  Nobody wants that!

Roy I think has the best solution -- rather than trace each of the little grounds coming off that lug I mentioned earlier, run a 12ga wire from the headlight mount/triple clamp area to the frame.  What you're trying to accomplish is bypassing the need for any grounding contact between the steering portion and frame.  You can test the effectiveness of any two points with a jumper wire.  If you use the jumper and the problem fixes itself, tie the wire to those points.

I used Roy's "star" (we call it "home runs") theory when I built the trike.  I have a pair of buss bars (one near the steering head and one near the rear axle) that collect individual ground wires from every circuit.  The bars then communicate with a battery cutout switch and the switch connects a single ground cable to the battery.  This gives two advantages -- first, as Roy says, you can't feed back one circuit into another, and B, I can immobilize the bike and isolate the battery by tripping the cutout switch.  I'd do something like that if I had the time and a persistent problem with grounds.

 


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