A new Guzzi engine

[Aaron D.]

They're seriously late to the party.  I wonder if the final design is an in-house development or if they go jointly with someone like Rotax.

Just don't do what Indian did with the fake fins.  That's just embarrassing.

Fake fins? The Scout has no fins, the Chief is air cooled. I wonder how long that will last.

[Psychopasta]

As long as we leave the V7 II's with the MISSING CRANKSHAFT THRUST WASHER and the whole uh flat-tappet 8V's out of the conversation, then yeah, they're doing a Bang Up Job! 

Hey they're designing Guzzis, remember? Do you want it authentic or not?

- P

[Huzo]

I don't care, I have my aircooled V2 already... only need to buy 3 more so each kid can get one when I'm not here anymore 

I'm starting to think selfishly like that too. Thinking that another low k's 2VPC Norge to move on to when mine is stuffed, and that'll see me out if statistics are anything to go by, but I'll admit that is a short sighted approach...

[sidecarnutz]

All these comments are reminding me I should just hang on to my old Cali III and build it into the custom ride I need.

The company has passed me by on what I want in a bike.

[Huzo]

All these comments are reminding me I should just hang on to my old Cali III and build it into the custom ride I need.

The company has passed me by on what I want in a bike.

Yeah me too.
But I just don't feel the "pull", towards another bike.

[Diploman]

The blueprint for a new range of liquid-cooled Guzzi engines already exists:  When Triumph faced the decision to transition their popular, evergreen Bonneville/Thruxton/Street Twin line to liquid cooling, it was of the utmost importance to keep the iconic traditional appearance of the vertical twin.  Therefore, Triumph designed a new range of engines utilizing liquid cooling, but also finned and closely resembling the previous generation of air-cooled engines.  The fins, however, were not added strictly for decoration: they are functional and add a significant heat-dissipation capability to the liquid cooling system.  This air-cooling add-on permits the use of a smaller, less intrusive radiator, and allows the new Triumphs to pass with scant notice of the new liquid-cooling system, so much do they resemble the previous generation of bikes.  This new lineup has proven a tremendous commercial success for Triumph.

Moto Guzzi could easily go the same route, with cylinders/heads plumbed for liquid cooling, but equipped with fins so that the V-twin engine would look like a Guzzi.  The fins would have a supplemental cooling function that would reduce the size of the radiator needed.  This, I believe, would be the perfect way for Guzzi to transition to the inevitable liquid cooled engine:  New technology, but preserving the traditional look.  Triumph, whose Bonneville line is, like Guzzi, heavily retro, has shown the way with their recent successful transition.

[waxi]

The blueprint for a new range of liquid-cooled Guzzi engines already exists:  When Triumph faced the decision to transition their popular, evergreen Bonneville/Thruxton/Street Twin line to liquid cooling, it was of the utmost importance to keep the iconic traditional appearance of the vertical twin.  Therefore, Triumph designed a new range of engines utilizing liquid cooling, but also finned and closely resembling the previous generation of air-cooled engines.  The fins, however, were not added strictly for decoration: they are functional and add a significant heat-dissipation capability to the liquid cooling system.  This air-cooling add-on permits the use of a smaller, less intrusive radiator, and allows the new Triumphs to pass with scant notice of the new liquid-cooling system, so much do they resemble the previous generation of bikes.  This new lineup has proven a tremendous commercial success for Triumph.

Moto Guzzi could easily go the same route, with cylinders/heads plumbed for liquid cooling, but equipped with fins so that the V-twin engine would look like a Guzzi.  The fins would have a supplemental cooling function that would reduce the size of the radiator needed.  This, I believe, would be the perfect way for Guzzi to transition to the inevitable liquid cooled engine:  New technology, but preserving the traditional look.  Triumph, whose Bonneville line is, like Guzzi, heavily retro, has shown the way with their recent successful transition.

Aren't you describing big block Guzzi? Can this new engine be a smaller big block?

[AH Fan]

Nothing has changed substantially in the bottom end of the smallblock since its inception in '78 or whenever. The thrust faces have always been a bit wear prone but it is their absence that promoted the 'Premature Death' experience with that run of V7-II's (From memory? I think they were II'S?).

The 'New guy' suggestion is probably right. You must remember these things aren't lovingly hand crafted by skilled artisans in a silent, Trappist monk like silence in some sort of temple to excellence! They are slapped together by poorly paid, semi-skilled production line workers in Noale who are probably more inclined to be thinking about what they'll be having for dinner or who might be shagging their missus while they're at work! The missing thrust faces were an oversight, not a design flaw.

Pete

Jesus Pete .............   

[Diploman]

I think liquid cooling, with traditional-looking but functional finning on cylinders/heads, could be adapted just as readily to Guzzi's smallblock engines as to the bigblocks.  Same principle, just a small difference in scale.  I envision the water pump being driven off the rear of the camshaft, but the oil pump shaft would be another possibility.

The liquid-cooled engine I am hypothesizing would be distinct from the air/oil cooled engines currently fitted to certain big block models such as the (discontinued ) Griso and the California 1400 series.  Water is a far more efficient heat-transfer medium than oil.  Suzuki, for example,  tried oil-cooled engines for a few years, then changed to water+coolant like the rest of the motorized world.

[pete roper]

How about just designing something new that works? Who gives a toss what it looks like? You can cover it up with lightweight panelling to make it look pretty. I just want light and punchy and a chassis that isn't like something from a Flintstones cartoon!

Pete

[Diploman]

From a strictly functional point of view, Pete, I think you are right.  However, Triumph's undeniable success with preserving the traditional appearance of their iconic vertical twin clearly shows that the market places a major value on the appearance of the engine, the central component of a motorcycle.   Guzzi's V-twin is no less iconic and it is hard to imagine an attractive Guzzi without the finned jugs jutting into the airstream.  It's about marketing.

[beetle]

IIRC, there was a concept engine shown back in 2013. It was hi-cam engine with water cooled heads. It would be cheaper to do that than build a whole new engine. Piaggio likes cheaper.

That, plus the current tricks they use to get around Euro4 on 1400 would probably be enough. Same for the new V9 and V7III small block.

[Kev m]

How about just designing something new that works? Who gives a toss what it looks like? You can cover it up with lightweight panelling to make it look pretty. I just want light and punchy and a chassis that isn't like something from a Flintstones cartoon!

Pete

I'm not saying they can't depart from tradition at all. But if you go clean slate and only think about function, what makes the resulting product a "Guzzi" from the view point of a fan who enjoys the mechanical feel and performance of a current Guzzi product?

I.E. at that point, why not just buy a ________ from JAPanInc, Triumph, or Ducati?

What will continue to make it a Guzzi?

[pete roper]

Probably nothing if Piaggio have anything to do with it. That's why I think I've probably bought my last new one. I hope to be surprised but at my age and with my experience I'm afraid cynicism has well and truly taken hold.

Pete

[Kev m]

Probably nothing if Piaggio have anything to do with it. That's why I think I've probably bought my last new one. I hope to be surprised but at my age and with my experience I'm afraid cynicism has well and truly taken hold.

Pete

I'm not asking for a prediction, especially a pessimistic one.

I'm asking for what you WANT from them?

[pete roper]

Anything as long as its innovative, modern and different from everything else!

A Hi-Cam smallblock, wet or dry, I care not, would be a nice start. Put into a MODERN chassis, not the mid 20th century junker they're still using now.

Pete

[kingoffleece]

That would have to be some chassis.  I just spent 4 days chasing several Guzzi riders thru the extreme twisties of West Virginia.
These guys are seriously skilled and quick and several were ranked nationally at one point.  The motor and chassis along with everything else on the bike sure looked fine to me.

[Murray]

Two things let it not be crap/beige (Aprilia have for in this department guzzi to for that matter) and bring it on!

[Ncdan]

If the guzzi fathers can design these new concepts with the design excellent of the Japanese bikes and even the engineer perfection of Harley Davidson, it would be great for MG.

[Scud]

Pete wants a Husqvarna Nuda with a Moto Guzzi logo on it.

Come to think of... so do I.

[Seagondollar]

Four cyclinders...ugh, no thanks.

I had a Honda ST1100 V4 for a while.  It was a soulless appliance.  I sold it and found my LMIV.

[LowRyter]

SD, 140hp 4cyl V4 Guzzi would have lots character in my opinion.

Where is Rocker's opinion when we really need it?   For that matter, Chuck from Indiana, Pete Roper, Lannis, Kev M (perhaps not)? 

 

Inquiring minds want to know!

[oldbike54]

 Let a Luddite offer up an opinion . There are many companies building motorbikes with the latest greatest technology , leave Moto Guzzi the brand for us folks who prefer a nice , simple easy to maintain motorcycle . If you want or need an Aprilia or a Honda , well , those bikes are readily available .

 Dusty

[Orange Guzzi]

I was assuming that was Aprilia's or Guzzi's fault. But no, I didn't forget. I almost bought one new before there was a fix. It would have probably ruined me for the brand.

    I like my Hemi Hydro.

[Kev m]

SD, 140hp 4cyl V4 Guzzi would have lots character in my opinion.

Where is Rocker's opinion when we really need it?   For that matter, Chuck from Indiana, Pete Roper, Lannis, Kev M (perhaps not)? 

 

Inquiring minds want to know!

Such a bike would be lost on me and would lose my interest.

Give me character and ease of maintenance.

I just don't need that much HP and don't have any interest in more than two cylinders.

[Huzo]

Such a bike would be lost on me and would lose my interest.

Give me character and ease of maintenance.

I just don't need that much HP and don't have any interest in more than two cylinders.

That school of thought exactly mirrors my own, but...
Is it not true that if Guzzi don't start building jiggers with broader/mass appeal, then they just won't sell the requisite number of units, and the brand will go arse up !
Us old buggers can rattle around on our old jallopies, 'cos we'll be dead soon and it won't matter, but what are the new "plug and play" generation gunna do their nut over.
My guess in 2025, they won't settle for what we are attracted to. They'll want something that can go head to head with their peers.

[Huzo]

SD, 140hp 4cyl V4 Guzzi would have lots character in my opinion.

Where is Rocker's opinion when we really need it?   For that matter, Chuck from Indiana, Pete Roper, Lannis, Kev M (perhaps not)? 

 

Inquiring minds want to know!

A fraction unwise to presume that Kev M's opinion isn't as worthy of digestion as the aforementioned luminaries.
I reckon his insight is refreshing on occasions.
Just sayin'.

[frans belgium]

And yes, ladies and gentlemen, here we go again for the 131th time.  What will Guzzi bring, what will they show on this or that expo in this or that year?

A REAL water cooled engine?  Good grief, what a novelty, last time I checked they were only on the market for about 100 years or so?

Let's just wait and see (probably nothing at all,  unless a pimped up V7 with some parts that Luigi forgot to destroy some 50 years earlier  and were left on the shelves while putting together the original V7) 

[bmp72]

There's some interesting stuff on the Guzzista forum, (ain't google translate grand)

"2 small 900cc cross tourers based on the small block of the V9, about 80CV, cardan with SINGLE SHAFT, LED headlamps (a beak as the eagle as a position light). Exhaust.
A more road and a more off-road version."

"A more "dressed" city version and the double round headlight and eagle led as a position light between one group and the other, mounted on the fixed fairing.
The other more offroad and "naked" with a higher mudguard and a solid-state steering assembly.
900cc motor, "generous" cardan, rear mono, black SX side exhaust, radial wheels (19-inch starter), tubular frame (no monotree, pardon) without cradle"

"production october 2018"

don't know what to make of it, or how reliable the source... (member 'VidiV')

[Kev m]

That school of thought exactly mirrors my own, but...
Is it not true that if Guzzi don't start building jiggers with broader/mass appeal, then they just won't sell the requisite number of units, and the brand will go arse up !
Us old buggers can rattle around on our old jallopies, 'cos we'll be dead soon and it won't matter, but what are the new "plug and play" generation gunna do their nut over.
My guess in 2025, they won't settle for what we are attracted to. They'll want something that can go head to head with their peers.

That it's no interest to me doesn't mean they shouldn't do it.

That said I don't think they "need" it, and I don't think they'll do it.

I'm not sure Piaggio needs or wants Guzzi to be BMW, Triumph, or even Ducati.

They may not want to grow the brand to those levels. I can't say.

And certainly many here don't want them to be ubiquitous either.

That said I'm probably one of the ones who would rather see more of them and an expansion of their popularity.

And yes, a product like that could help.

Of course an expansion of products in the V9 range sounds like a good place to start. Especially if they broaden appeal with a better chassis and less polarizing looks.

(PS I suspect Low was not insulting my opinion, but more recognizing the lack of appeal such a product would hold for me.)