NGC: For Pete Roper, a BMW R9T Question

[Bluerobotz]

Why my opinion should hold significant water I don't know but on the R9T I mean just look at it!

Apart from being an obvious 'Poverty Pack' with non adjustable suspension it's a BMW which means it's got a weak gearbox and final drive that will leave you stranded and drinking your own urine in some god-forsaken desert when it breaks down or blows up! Then there is the engine which like all flat twins sounds like a horse farting in a swimming pool. It's greatest sin though is it's ugly! Not just a little bit ugly either! It exudes ugliness like a pyroclastic flow from a volcano of ugliness! It's so ugly not even it's mother could love it! It's fuel tank looks like some huge, uninsertable pessary! It's seat looks like a donkey speculum! It transcends all normal descriptions of ugly! It's so bad I reckon the reason you never see the wretched things on the road is that the morning after they've bought one their owners catch a glimpse of then out of their bedroom windows and are suddenly overwhelmed by a need to gouge their own eyes out! Service costs will be absurd and they will develop mysterious problems with their canbus a week after the warranty runs out!

I strongly urge you to run, not walk, RUN away from anything made by Bring More Wallet and book into one of the many counselling services that offer a seven step programme to cure you of this unhealthy fascination.

Pete

I take it that you're not recommending it then Peter? Great use of English it its finest form. Well done.

[Kev m]

Ok, I will resurrect this thread....just heard about / seen the 2018 R9T "Pure" model.   If I was ever to own a BMW, this would be the one.  Priced close to what I can afford, and seems like a nice ride.  Other than "looks", anything to watch out for?  Are the gear boxes / final drives that weak on them?

Home maintenance as easy as a Guzzi?

Thanks...

Despite the curmudgeon crew, that's the one I would consider.

I can't imagine there's anything necessary too daunting in terms of maintenance, but those who know them better will chime in I'm sure.

I can't imagine Jay would have bought his new water-head boxer if he was going to be a dealer slave, that's not his style.

[blu guzz]

I have had 4 BMWs starting with the iconic r100rs, easily the most beautiful to my eyes.  Next the 1100rs, 1150rt and finally, the ill-fated k1200rs.  I took many trips and logged appx. 120k miles which is pretty good for a person who works a regular scheduled.  I was a big fan in spite of the quirkiness of some of them.  It helped that I could perform the routine upkeep otherwise dealer service would have quickly quenched my fire.  However, the dreaded rear drive death visited me at 39,500 miles on a beautiful Sunday afternoon this past July.  I had heard about this potential problem since I started riding BMWs in 1998, but never thought it would happen to me.  So, for the first time in all my BMW ownership, I trailered a bike.  To the independent mechanic/Guzzi dealer she went and was traded for the Blu Guzz.  I try to focus more on the many enjoyable trips and miles I had rather than the ignoble end.
As for the R9T, my opinion is that it was a bold step for a company as ass-crack tight as BMW and I salute them for taking it.  If you are really used to BMW's as I am, it doesn't seem so bad but my biggest problem with the styling is that super dense midsection contrasted by the open rear and front - to me, it might as well be an electric machine with a battery pack.  With their long warranty, I would not worry about buying a new one from a reliability perspective. 

[Carlo DeSantis]

Ok, I will resurrect this thread....just heard about / seen the 2018 R9T "Pure" model.   If I was ever to own a BMW, this would be the one.  Priced close to what I can afford, and seems like a nice ride.  Other than "looks", anything to watch out for?  Are the gear boxes / final drives that weak on them?

Home maintenance as easy as a Guzzi?

Thanks...

My experience in Guzzi maintenance is with the 850BB and the 1100BB.  My experience with BMW is with  K1100, K75, and R12 camhead (what's in the R90T).

The Beemer maintenance was not as easy as the Guzzi.  But then few things are that easy :)

That said, with the camhead, routine maintenance can be done at home with the addition of a couple of tools, readily available from the aftermarket.  The R90T brake system, however, is another story.  Best leave that to the pros, IMO.

Anything beyond fluid changes, plug changes, valve adjustment, battery change, is probably going to need a visit to the dealer for most people.

Best,

Carlo

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Come on Pete, don't soft pedal it.  Tell us what you really think.

[twowings]

I'm genuinely fond of the old airheads aesthetically, but whenever I encounter the new stuff, I remind myself that Better Motorcycles are Waiting...at my Guzzi dealer...

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm genuinely fond of the old airheads aesthetically, but whenever I encounter the new stuff, I remind myself that Better Motorcycles are Waiting...somewhere else...

FTFY 

[jas67]

I can't imagine Jay would have bought his new water-head boxer if he was going to be a dealer slave, that's not his style.

Since the bike in question is the R9T, I'll comment on that first.   The Camhead motor in the R9T is the most mature and refined of the 1170cc air/oil-cooled boxer.    It is a very versatile motor with a nice broad torque curve.   The Camhead is smoother, and revs a little more freely than the earlier hex-head from which it is derived.

BMW makes sometimes-yearly refinements to their bikes.  The final drive issues of the earlier 1200's (starting in 2005 with the R1200GS) seem to have been resolved by the time the camped came around in 2010 on the RT (& GS, I think) and 2011 on the R1200R.

To address Roper's "Poverty Pack" comment about the Pure's suspension, I haven't ridden the Pure (or Racer which has the same suspension), but, really enjoyed riding the original R9T, though, that one has an inverted fork (which, IIRC, is adjustable).    That said, while "Poverty Pack" is a good description for the stock suspension on my 2014 V7 Special, the R9T Pure and Racer suspension, while lower priced than the original R9T, are certainly not deserving of Roper's "Poverty Pack" description.    One of my riding buddies has an R9T Racer, and speaks well of the suspension on it, though he is considering an Ohlins rear shock.   To give his comments a frame of reference, he is pretty picky with suspension, some of his past rides being a Ducati ST2 that he upgraded with Ohlins on the back, and Race Tech gold-valve on the front, my R1200RS (non ESA model), R1200S, R1100S, Triumph Street Triple R (the R = higher spec adjustable suspension).

OK, back to the water cooled boxer (not on topic for the R9T), but, addressing Kev's comment, I've got several riding friends with R1200GS's with the same motor that have had trouble free service with them.    Currently, I think the highest miles on them is about 20k, as the one friend was hit by a car on his first one (a 2014) after 16k trouble free miles in less than a year, and then put 12k trouble free miles on the 2015 that replaced it, then bought a 2016 with his employee discount (works part time at a BMW dealer) because he got a really good deal on it, and had a ready and willing buyer for his 2015 at a price that gave him the 2016 for like $1,500 more.   He put around 14k miles on that 2016, also trouble free.     That said, none of these bikes has more than 20k on them yet, so, we'll see.      BUT -- a lot of reported troubles with modern vehicles in general seem to be initial-quality problems that show up in the first year or so.

My particular R1200RS is the non-ESA model (electronic adjustable suspension), so, that is one less electronic doodad to worry about having problems with.    I bought an Ohlins rear shocks for it for $775 from Revzilla's Black Friday sale.   The Ohlins is, IMHO, better than the ESA.     ESA is not necessary with Ohlins, as it has the comfort of ESA's "comfort" setting, and sure-footed handling of ESA's "Sport" setting w/o having to push a button (or spin a wiz-wheel) to change the suspension settings.

Time will tell if this bike is as reliable as I hope.    So far, it has been a great replacement for my Breva 1100 that I sold two years ago, and is everything I liked about that bike, plus more power, cruise control, and adjustable windscreen.   The Breva had to go after two failed speedometer clusters and a clutch that came apart at only 25k miles.

[Kev m]

Jay I think you managed to give as much info as possible without ever really answering the question.

Will your or the 9T require any dealer only maintenance? Is there anything periodic the would require a dealer visit?

[jas67]

Jay I think you managed to give as much info as possible without ever really answering the question.

Will your or the 9T require any dealer only maintenance? Is there anything periodic the would require a dealer visit?

No, periodic maintenance can be done at home.   

Fluid changes are like a guzzi, separate oil for engine, transmission, and final drive (the water cooled boxer is unit construction, so, on that one, engine and transmission oil are common).   Brake service, both changing of pads, and flushing fluid (so long as you don't get air into it, then you might need the dealer to connect their computer to flush the ABS pump), is all standard stuff you can do at home.

Valve adjustment is shim, but, being a boxer, accessibility is great, no need to spend an hour on removing and re-installing bodywork.   Also, being shim, I would think that it'll go 15-20k or more w/o requiring a shim change.   And, if it does, you'll likely change them once, and then go 40k or so until shim changes are required again.

The service light, like many modern bikes, does require either a special tool, or a trip to the dealer.
http://www.gs911usa.com

$399 is pretty steep for a diagnostics tool, IMHO, but, it it can do up to 10 different VIN's, more than that requires the $799 model (aimed at independent shops).   It is certainly more than just a service light reset tool, it is a diagnostic tool that will be invaluable should any electrical gremlins show up, and even for simple sensor or switch problems.

[kingoffleece]

I put 50 miles or so on a new R9T Scrambler.  It was a blast.

[Sheepdog]

My particular R1200RS is the non-ESA model (electronic adjustable suspension), so, that is one less electronic doodad to worry about having problems with.    I bought an Ohlins rear shocks for it for $775 from Revzilla's Black Friday sale.   The Ohlins is, IMHO, better than the ESA.     ESA is not necessary with Ohlins, as it has the comfort of ESA's "comfort" setting, and sure-footed handling of ESA's "Sport" setting w/o having to push a button (or spin a wiz-wheel) to change the suspension settings.

Time will tell if this bike is as reliable as I hope.    So far, it has been a great replacement for my Breva 1100 that I sold two years ago, and is everything I liked about that bike, plus more power, cruise control, and adjustable windscreen.   The Breva had to go after two failed speedometer clusters and a clutch that came apart at only 25k miles.

I also have had an enjoyable and trouble-free time with the leftover 2016 R12RS I bought last spring. I picked it up for $18K out-the-door with side cases. It is fully optioned, to my utter delight. The on-the-fly adjustable suspension and engine mode features also influence ABS and traction control parameters keeping my mind from making bad promises. The cruise control appeals to me for long days, and the Navigation unit integrates with the bikes sensors to make critical information available real-time on the Nav-screen. I had to make a few ergonomic adjustments, but this bike is my traveler. It never feels stressed and will comfortly take me 200+ miles on a single tank of gas. Though it is plenty powerful as stock, for under $2K the engine can be made to gain 15hp and 15 ft lbs of torque without touching any more than the exhaust system and the ECU. My Vintage still has BFF status wrapped up, but this is a game changing bike. I look forward to using it in the Northern Rockies...

Oh, and the maintenance is a little more expensive, but at least my dealer is here in town. If I need to bring the Guzzi to a dealer it’s a 200 mile one way trip and a hotel room for a night or two...

[LowRyter]

SheepDog-  I've ridden one.  great bike.

[fossil]

Well, I took a look at the R9T - range. In my eyes all look hideous (but that are my eyes). On the Racer I cannot sit, but obviously I cannot sit on any of those "Racers" as the Thruxton R also feels very uncomfortable for me. On the Pure I sit really good. But comparing the crude finish of details of this bike (the surfaces of several metal parts, e.g. the handlebars) with the quality that is delivered by Guzzi and Triumph - oh my!

The last BMW I really truly loved was the R100RS.

[ohiorider]

I put a fair number of miles on several BMWs over the years, starting in 1985.

65000   1985 K100RS
10000   1988 K75S
43000   1989 K100RS ABS
152817   1991 R100GS
9000           1993 K1100LT
14264   1993 K1100RS
32753   1995 R1100RS
2999           1990 K1   
41670   1999 K1200RS
16984   2003 R1150R Rockster (should have kept this one and put a lot more miles on it.)

388487   TOTAL

Ones I would consider doing again:
K100RS 16 valve (90-91 model year)
K75S
R100GS (with lower mileage than current ride)
K1200RS
R1150R Rockster

[oldbike54]

 Dunno , the one I rode was a real ripper .

 Dusty

[gentlemanjim]

Pete just convinced me....I think I need to have one. 

I agree the R9T is as I describe awkward looking  could have a more homgeneous flow of style.  And it by no means compares to the svelt look of the R1100,1150,1200R's

[geodoc]

Heh man, anthropomorphists are people too.

I found that a both tasteless and puerile. It's possible to criticise something's looks without anthropomorphising surely?

[pete roper]

Heh man, anthropomorphists are people too.

I wasn't anthopomorphising! I was comparing it to assorted fictitious medical products and surgical instruments! The closest I came is describing it as a turd! But I didn't specify the species that provided the Turd! :P

[geodoc]

I was-a making de joke cobber.

I wasn't anthopomorphising! I was comparing it to assorted fictitious medical products and surgical instruments! The closest I came is describing it as a turd! But I didn't specify the species that provided the Turd! :P

[pete roper]

As was I George

[blackcat]

Ok, I will resurrect this thread....just heard about / seen the 2018 R9T "Pure" model.   If I was ever to own a BMW, this would be the one.  Priced close to what I can afford, and seems like a nice ride.  Other than "looks", anything to watch out for?  Are the gear boxes / final drives that weak on them?

Home maintenance as easy as a Guzzi?

Thanks...

Sat on one at the local BMW/Guzzi dealer and the reach to the bars was as far as it is to my Daytona RS so I can't imagine anything more than a 200 mile ride for me, maybe less with that BMW engine.   They aren't selling very many of those bikes from what I have been told and I'd negotiate a deal before accepting any price from your dealer.  Not a bad looking bike except for those red/blue colors.

Don't know anything more, never owned a BMW.

[kingoffleece]

What's the matter with the motor?
Somebody will know for sure but I thought I read the R9T was the top or second most popular bike for BMW.

[Darren Williams]

What's the matter with the motor?
Somebody will know for sure but I thought I read the R9T was the top or second most popular bike for BMW.

Motor is similar but different from a Guzzi big block in that you keep the RPMs up in the middle of the torque range and then let it eat. Very enjoyable motor IMHO. Doesn't have as nice of a sound as a Guzzi, though.

round where I ride I don't see as many R9T's as I do GS's and R/RS/RT's. Probably see twice as many K1600's as R9T's.

[Carlo DeSantis]

Motor is similar but different from a Guzzi big block in that you keep the RPMs up in the middle of the torque range and then let it eat. Very enjoyable motor IMHO. Doesn't have as nice of a sound as a Guzzi, though.

round where I ride I don't see as many R9T's as I do GS's and R/RS/RT's. Probably see twice as many K1600's as R9T's.

The camhead engine doesn't seem to have a sweet spot.  It's fairly linear all the way to the rev limiter    In some ways it feels like a much stronger K75.

I keep mine at ≥3,000 RPM and it's happy.

Best,

Carlo

[jas67]

The camhead engine doesn't seem to have a sweet spot.  It's fairly linear all the way to the rev limiter    In some ways it feels like a much stronger K75.

I keep mine at ≥3,000 RPM and it's happy.

Best,

Carlo

The Wasserboxer is pretty much the same, but more.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

In some ways it feels like a much stronger K75.

Damning with faint praise.  I may have ridden a bike with a more boring engine than a K75, but don't remember it.

[kingoffleece]

I KNOW the difference between a Guzzi motor and a Boxer.  It was a general question-what's wrong with the boxer?
The 9T I rode was a total riot to push thru the twisties.  I didn't find much to not like, if anything.  Different, yes.  "Bad?".  Nope.

[Carlo DeSantis]

Damning with faint praise.  I may have ridden a bike with a more boring engine than a K75, but don't remember it.

This is surprising.  Nay, shocking!  You being such a Beemer fan and all 

[Carlo DeSantis]

Seriously, Chuck, I understand your feeling.  But I gotta tell you that I run into that rev limiter pretty frequently.  It's really something to ride a bike that doesn't run out of breath toward redline and just keeps pulling.  There's no indication that it's time to shift -- and no way I'm looking at the tach with the throttle pinned :)

And the wet heads are even stronger!

Best,

Carlo