Friend on Canadian Kaw Triples Board Found Guzzi Rear Drive Bearing Missing

[Triple Jim]

This one is pretty strange.  I thought I'd post a link to the thread to see what the folks here think.  A friend recently bought a 2000 V11 and after riding it quite a bit, found that a bearing in the rear drive was completely missing.

http://triplescanada.proboards.com/thread/12252/horseshoes-lucky-charms

[oldbike54]

 Can't access it Jim . 

 Dusty

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I'm guessing the needle bearing was missing? Not the first I've heard of.

[nc43bsa]

Can't access it Jim . 

 Dusty

Same here.

[rodekyll]

It's dead, Jim.

[Triple Jim]

Darn, I didn't think it required logging in to read it.  He posted this photo:





He said the arrow shows where the bearing should have been.  Now he's wondering if a previous owner screwed up, or if the bearing has been missing from the start.

[rodekyll]

Hmmm.  Did he look at the ring gear?  I'll bet it's still on the hub . . . .

[nc43bsa]

That sure is a clean housing.   

[Kiwi_Roy]

The pinion looks good. Isn't there another large bearing that supports the crown wheel?

They will know on the other board for sure.

[Triple Jim]

He wrote: "the gears look good, shows slight contact wear on the outward edge. The axle however shows some wear, will need to mic it and see if it`s still in spec."




post images

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes I was just reading over on VII Lemans
Apparently there has never been a bearing in there

It's not just the grease Luigi leaves out!

[Triple Jim]

Yes I was just reading over on VII Lemans
Apparently there has never been a bearing in there

Do you mean that there is no need for a bearing there, and Guzzi never installed one at the factory?

The exploded view seems to show one.

[Sasquatch Jim]

 It looks like it never had any oil in three either.

[acogoff]

     The needle bearings deep down in the axle hole in the top photo tells me it is different than the old tonti boxes I've been into?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Do you mean that there is no need for a bearing there, and Guzzi never installed one at the factory?

The exploded view seems to show one.

Someone here on Wildguzzi found that the needle bearing was missing from their EV IIRC.

The V11 rear drive is a little different than a Tonti one:


The bearing that's missing is #12, part no. 92234055, 40 x 55 x 20.

[Triple Jim]

Charlie, thanks for the information.  So you're saying the bearing should have been in there, correct?  The seal, #11 was also missing.  How does this thing go tens of thousands of miles with a missing bearing, and no apparent damage to anything?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Charlie, thanks for the information.  So you're saying the bearing should have been in there, correct?  The seal, #11 was also missing.  How does this thing go tens of thousands of miles with a missing bearing, and no apparent damage to anything?

Yes, the bearing should have been in there, how it was left out at the factory? Amazing. The seal is #10 (90403850, 38 x 50 x 7) #11 is a circlip:



My guess is between the large ball bearing and the drive splines, there was enough support to prevent any real damage. I'd be tempted to replace the large ball bearing #26 (92208014, 80 x 125 x 14) just to make sure it wasn't compromised by the added stress.

[swooshdave]

Doesn't it mean this bearing took all the load?

[guzzisteve]

Pretty Amazing, on the axle is 5 bearings. I'll bet it was built on Fri and finished on Mon.

[Bill Owens]

Holy Sheet!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Doesn't it mean this bearing took all the load?

That's the one the rear drive housing pivots around the axle on, it could have taken some of the load as well.

[pehayes]

In addition to the roller bearing and race at that location, there should have been an oil seal and a bronze thrust washer.  If the seal was not in there, all of the oil would have been on the road the day it left the dealership.  So, something is very different about this rear drive or something totally bogus about the story itself.  Otherwise, there is something very different about the design of the spine frame rear drive.  I've never been into one of those so I can't opine.  Someone with direct experience needs to chime in.  Pete?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[nc43bsa]

I believe the seal you're referring to is shown in the picture of the ring gear, at the top, after it was pried out.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

In addition to the roller bearing and race at that location, there should have been an oil seal and a bronze thrust washer.  If the seal was not in there, all of the oil would have been on the road the day it left the dealership.  So, something is very different about this rear drive or something totally bogus about the story itself.  Otherwise, there is something very different about the design of the spine frame rear drive.  I've never been into one of those so I can't opine.  Someone with direct experience needs to chime in.  Pete?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

I posted an illustration above of the the Spine frame rear drive. It's similar to earlier rear drives, but also a bit different. 



There is a seal, but no bronze thrust washer, only a circlip.

[normzone]

    In addition to the roller bearing and race at that location, there should have been an oil seal and a bronze thrust washer.  If the seal was not in there, all of the oil would have been on the road the day it left the dealership.  So, something is very different about this rear drive or something totally bogus about the story itself. 

Are we sure it is not April 1st in Canada ? They do some things differently there, you know.

[shiloh]

In addition to the roller bearing and race at that location, there should have been an oil seal and a bronze thrust washer.  If the seal was not in there, all of the oil would have been on the road the day it left the dealership.  So, something is very different about this rear drive or something totally bogus about the story itself.  Otherwise, there is something very different about the design of the spine frame rear drive.  I've never been into one of those so I can't opine.  Someone with direct experience needs to chime in.  Pete?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

hi and thanx to Jim for posting here on my behave, havn`t been on here for a while.
the story, believe me is not bogus, let me fill you in on whats what.
The other day I torn down the rear end to solve or try to solve a leak.
The leak was from the inner seal, it was mangled, thats when I realized the bearing was missing, also the thick trust washer was a thin hardware store type washer, which now makes me think work was done wrong either at the factory or by some third party hack.
But that still dosn`t explain how it appears the bearing was never there, no impression a bearing was ever pressed in there???
I`ve checked everything out and believe it or not its all with in spec, though there is a bit of ware on the axle.
 I`ve concluded that the loads must have been shared among-st the other bearings.
I have ordered all the goodies I need to put this right, except the cir-clip, which is in place, it holds inner race in place.
There was oil in it... lol, red line shock proof, sticky shyte, but it didn`t stand up to a good diesel bath, much easier to check and fix when everything is nice and clean.
I`m going to think its was a factory, Friday late shift, on purpose, by a disgruntled employee f*** up. I`d hate to think Brent Mitton (incase he`s reading) fucked me over when I bought the bike, he`s such a nice guy, but one never knows

[pete roper]

I've got one in bits at the workshop somewhere. I'll try and get some pics if I have time. The bearing in the case that allows the reactive movement on the wheel spindle offers no support to the crownwheel. That is done, as it is with the Tontis, by the inboard needle roller and the large, wheel side, ball race.

Even if it did work it would of been hellaciously noisy and I'm really surprised the crown wheel and pinion aren't rooted! Not doubting the veracity of the claim. Just very surprised!

Pete

[shiloh]

Even if it did work it would of been hellaciously noisy and I'm really surprised the crown wheel and pinion aren't rooted! Not doubting the veracity of the claim. Just very surprised!

Pete

exactly, that was my initial Q. when I posted on the other forum,,` how is it possible this thing didn`t detonate and destroy the bike.
Was it noisy, idk, I bought it, I drove it, hard to hear anything over the exhaust note.. lol, then it started to leak, I started to fix it...... then was unpleasantly surprised......

[twowheeladdict]

I've read in other Japanese bike forums recommendations to inspect certain parts of certain bikes because several members had early issues with lack of grease, poor quality parts, poor workmanship, etc. 

Seems like one is better off if we could buy the bike in kit form and assemble it ourselves.