Generator for House

[JeffOlson]

It is that time of year: wind, rain, falling trees, power outages... My wife and I (and perhaps a few hundred other people) live on a peninsula. When the power goes out, it stays out. Ours is not a high-priority area. Power can be out for days.

Thinking ahead, I would like to install an electric generator. (Our cabin/cottage is only 1,200 square feet, but we do have a few outbuildings with light-duty needs--such as the trickle charger for my Norge.)

I would much prefer a heavy, non-portable, automatic generator that is connected to our propane tank. I think I have narrowed my search to a Generac Guardian 11kW Home Backup Generator with Whole House Switch (about $3,100) or a Champion 8.5Kw Standby Generator with 10-Circuit Automatic Transfer Switch (about $1,800). I can get either through Cabela's (or possibly direct), our electrician is ready to connect whatever we buy, and Acme Fuel is ready to connect the propane line.

Thoughts? Others to consider?

Our farmer friends just use a portable, manual-start, gas generator, and our electrician has suggested the same, but I would rather not flip switches, go outside, start the generator, come back inside, flip more switches, and then worry about running out of gas.

[Rick in WNY]

I have a camper parked up on my parents' farm that I use as a home away from home. It's parked where one of my sisters had a trailer 20-odd years ago, so there's a well and septic, but no electric anymore. So I bought a propane generator to run the well pump and everything else while I'm there. My advice, stay with propane, it is hands down so much better than gasoline for a machine that can go days or weeks or months without being started. Especially now ith ethanol fuel.

Generac is a top-end brand, their stuff works beautifully and lasts a long time, but you pay for it.

Champion is cheaper, but depending on how much you'll use it, it may be good enough.

[JeffOlson]

^ Thank you!

[Chuck in Indiana]

We've had a Generac 13Kv IIRC maybe 15? for a really long time. It senses power out and after 30 seconds (from memory) automatically comes on and does the switching. After power comes back on for 30 seconds or so, it shuts down and switches back to utility power.
Once a week, it runs for 15 minutes to keep itself ready to go. 
I've put one battery in it. Service has been oil and filter changes. Oh, looking at my maintenance log, I had to weld the muffler a few years ago. 992cc V twin, same as the Centauro. (Guzzi content)
Installed it myself.
This one has been a good one. I would hope their quality hasn't been built to a price, now.

[PJPR01]

Here in Hurricane prone Houston, these generators are also quite popular.  I have toyed with the idea over the years, and just today got a friendly reminder call from our local vendor.  Haven't yet bought one, but several neighbors have them.  They also sell Generac, I believe Kohler also makes good ones...Gas powered is the way to go.  Your price sounds better than what they offer here, but probably would need to look at the KW it puts out to get an apples to apples compare.

Seems like a good idea if you have regular power outages, we've had a few hurricanes in the past 20 years where power was out between 2 to 14 days - I managed to run small appliances via a voltage inverter, cooked with a gas BBQ and kept food cold with an Engel Expedition fridge running in the car with a permanently hot cig plug, but didn't have power for the A/C, luckily it wasn't that bad at the time.  Tons of flashlights available so lighting wasn't an issue.

Sounds like a good investment if you truly need power...

[Gliderjohn]

We have a 17K Gererac running off our propane tank. Not cheap but I feel it is some of the best money I have ever spent. Way, way better than a portable gas unit. It also puts out high quality power which many portable units don't. My electrician said when he tested it put out a steadier current than what comes through the electric companies lines. This is much healthier for your appliances and electronics. Power goes out and about 30 seconds later all is well again.
GliderJohn

[Nic in Western NYS]

I'm looking at a Generac setup for our new house because of how convenient the auto-on feature is - we had it in a house we rented and it worked great.  Before that, I had a Honda 6500 generator connected through a double throw positive neutral switch in the basement.  That worked great for about 20 years.  Should have taken it with us when we last moved - indestructible. 

[LowRyter]

So far as the reputation goes, Champion does real well in the portable RV market.  I've owned two, the first one was stolen and was replaced with 3000 inverter, both have never failed to start on the first pull (so long as gas was on and chocked).  Champions are made in China but are said to be designed in USA.

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison but haven't seen many folks complain about Champions, I doubt that anyone sell more generators.

[Carlo DeSantis]

We got a Generac 20KW unit a few years back.  We're on well and septic, but have natural gas to run the generator.  We've only needed it a half-dozen or so times, but it's great.  The "switch" can be programmed to prioritize which household circuits get juice.  In our case, we have enough juice to run the entire house.

Ours is on a 10 sec delay (I think the delay time is adjustable), and test-runs weekly.  Yearly maintenance with oil and filter change.  It has built-in electronic diagnosis.

Additional info: we needed to have our gas meter changed with the installation due to the higher flow demand of the Generac.  Might be applicable to a propane system as well.

Money well spent.

Best,

Carlo

PS: Mine was professionally installed and maintained, since I don't have the electrical and mechanical skills of many of you guys.

[Arizona Wayne]

I was going to put  standbv Generac 20K generator in our house but where our control panel is located it's not far from our property boundary and our propane tank is located on the other side of the house, so I was going to by a used 150 gal. tank ($400) for the generator.  But then I found out the gas line had to be 18" underground between the tank & generator & 10' from the  gen., house to meet code.  And all this would be close to my septic tank access. 

So now I'm trying what many have done which is hooking up a portable generator to your house via your dryer 230 V. outlet.   You can see how to do this on u-tube. I have 2 generators already. 1 is a 4K w/gas or propane power options.  The other 1 1500W gas generator I've used before which can keep the fridge in our Toyhauler trailer running parked right next to our house.

So soon I'm going to see what all the 4K generator can sustain such as 3 fridges (2 small) & TV +X lights.   We get sporadic power outages here that might last 12 hours. 

[Adk.IBO]

Just make there is no possible way it can back feed to the grid. Power companies frown on that not to mention it puts linemen at risk.

[Tom]

Thought about getting a back-up generator for the house when we had outages on a monthly basis.  Turns out the conduit pipe that carried the electrical line was full of water plus the new sub-division was hooked up to the same line. 

The county paved the shoulder so no more water soaking into the the ground during high rains.  The electric company installed better lines and now we don't have the outages like before.

The generating plant is 1 mile from the house and they restored service with 20 minutes when the last earthquake shut it down and all the electrical plants on Maui and Oahu.  They took a lot longer to restore power 1 week to 10 days.  We haven't had an outage in awhile.

Fortunately, we live below the water tank for the sub-division too.  Water still flows with the electricity off.  The families that live up slope don't get their water when the power goes out. 

Not sure if I want to buy one now.  The amount of food that needs refrigeration is minimal.  So no big loss if it's a long term outage.  We just lucked out with out power needs. 

Hope you guys that need one get the best option for your lifestyle.  Propane would be the best if I was buying. 

[Arizona Wayne]

Just make there is no possible way it can back feed to the grid. Power companies frown on that not to mention it puts linemen at risk.

I'm aware of that and I'm the only 1 here that controls such things in this house.   Any time we do this the main house breakers will be shut off.   I've done this in the past in Kalif. when we had power outages but then did it w/our 1500W gen. to keep the fridge operating and the living room operational w/an extension cord to that 1 circuit.  Of course with the main house breakers off. 


I was considering going solar like many of my neighbors here, but even they lose power when the rest of us do.  For them to deal with this issue they would have to pay $thousands more for battery backup or also have a standby generator.     Only by being 'off the grid' with solar are you really free of the electric companies. 

[Adk.IBO]

 







...I’m 100% sure my biz insurance would not cover me if something happened after a gen hook up like that, so not worth the risk for me. Sounds like you’ll be alright though...

[LowRyter]

Just curious, do you guys lose power often?

I live in storm country USA and have only had one power outage that lasted more than a couple of hours.  We had an ice storm and lost power for several days, our street was overlooked and was mistakenly thought to have been restored.   We have city-owned municipal power and get much better service restoral than our neighbors with corporate and coop utilities.

[Perazzimx14]

Generators are only as good as the fuel supply feeding them and they like to eat.

[Gliderjohn]

From LowRyter:

Just curious, do you guys lose power often?

I live rurally and my electric service is through a small cooperative. Although now better than a few years ago we lose power anywhere from a few minutes to up to three hours or more at least a couple of times a month. Any significant thunderstorms and/or wind will result in an outage. Last spring power was down for over 12 hours. The second year we lived here an ice storm had us out for 6.5 days.
I now have a finished basement and have to use two sump pumps to stay dry. If I am without power for more than a couple of hours I would usually have a flooding basement.
GliderJohn

[blackcat]

We have a whole house Generac natural gas fired system with the auto switch. Engine is simple to maintain as per Chuck's comments and we have gone through a couple of battery's in the 10 plus years of ownership. Lost one transfer switch due to a lightening strike and we could have gone to a manual switch but didn't want to take that route when the power goes out, especially if we are not home.

My only complaint is that it is loud, and if money wasn't an issue I would have gone for the more expensive water cooled engine, but with installation that is way past $10K so I can deal with a little noise after a storm.

[Gliderjohn]

From blackcat:

I can deal with a little noise after a storm.

When you need it it's a wonderful noise.
GliderJohn

[Rough Edge racing]

  I also live in a rural area where the power often goes out for a few hours or a day when there's a storm...The house has no sump pump, we heat with wood...I have a small 1000 watt generator to power the refrigerator or coffee maker, but not both at the same time ...It can run for 8 hours on a gallon of gas...  A 4 stroke engine at full throttle uses .5 lbs of gas per HP per hour...Or about a gallon per hour for 14 HP.. If you home has a 200 amp service, that's 48000 (48K) watts. But is very rare for a residence to use even half that ....

[Dean Rose]

Just curious, do you guys lose power often?

I live in storm country USA and have only had one power outage that lasted more than a couple of hours.  We had an ice storm and lost power for several days, our street was overlooked and was mistakenly thought to have been restored.   We have city-owned municipal power and get much better service restoral than our neighbors with corporate and coop utilities.

You must not live in a rural area with lots of trees and a power company that only does maintenance on an emergency basis only.

Dean

[Chuck in Indiana]

I now have a finished basement and have to use two sump pumps to stay dry. If I am without power for more than a couple of hours I would usually have a flooding basement.

Me, too.. and one of them is AC DC in case the primary pump switch  or the backup generator fails. The backup will run for 7 hours on battery power alone.
The backup saved the basement once, the generator twice since we've put them in.

[Mike Tashjian]

Neighbors bought a small RV with a nice propane generator(3.5KW?).  I looked up the fuel consumption and it burns around three quarters of a gallon/hour on full load and somewhat less at light loading.  I know some home propane tanks are good sized but, I might not opt for it run the whole time power is out.  My thoughts were essentials and a few hours of lights at night if I have to run on  a generator.   Mike

[Gliderjohn]

From Chuck:

The backup will run for 7 hours on battery power alone.

Before the basement was finished we tried to live with battery backup. When we have heavy rain my pumps are running about every 20 seconds so the batteries only lasted 2-4 hours. Also there were a few times the battery powered pumps couldn't keep up. Now have high capacity regular pumps and the generator, life is good.
GliderJohn

[Sheepdog]

Here in rural South Louisiana we don't lose power often, but when we do it stays off for a while (it took almost a month to get power back after Katrina). We found that diesel generators are the most efficient, so we got an 8KW that runs the stinky stuff. It works well for us since we have lots of diesel around for our farm/lawn equipment. We can run our entire 480sf guest house with our 8KW unit. We also keep a 3.5KW gas model for running the well pump for showers and dishwashing. There is switching that must be manipulated and the generators have to be fueled and tended, but it seems like a small thing when you're hemmed in on all sides by fallen trees and are completely on your own. Air Conditioning alone makes it worthwhile!

[wavedog]

In Arizona I had a 15kw 3 cyl Italian diesel generator. Noisy but ran like a champ. I don't remember the brand. It sat on its own trailer in a building about two hundred feet from the house. It was very reliable, powered everything and was fuel efficient. I had a 500 gallon tank for fuel and I would pump it into the generator tank which held about 20 gallons. Seemed like it ran forever on that 20 gallons. I would fire it up every four or five days and water my citrus orchard from a well that was 900' deep. While it was running I would fill the 1500 gallon above ground water tank and line up to do a battery charge on the house bank every so often. I would take that time to clean the solar panels and do a wiring check. There was a 8kw 2 cyl Onan gas gen that I had mounted on the back of the house by the shop for when I needed a small shot of extra juice for a short period of time. Never had to worry about a power outage. Now that I live in Florida the power goes out here alot. A combination of drunks, storms and pine trees knocks out the jugo de electronico on a regular basis. I have a 6.5kw gas genny which fills our needs.

[Arizona Wayne]

From LowRyter:
I live rurally and my electric service is through a small cooperative. Although now better than a few years ago we lose power anywhere from a few minutes to up to three hours or more at least a couple of times a month. Any significant thunderstorms and/or wind will result in an outage. Last spring power was down for over 12 hours.


We're kind of in the same situation you are with our co-op elec. co. 50 miles away and a bunch of us on 1 line.  Surprisingly most our power outages are from thunderstorms in the summer or maybe someone hits their car into a telephone pole.  In 8+ years here the longest time we've lost power is 12 hours so far.

[jkguzzi]

I have an 11kW Generac and transfer switch that I installed myself. I kept thinking I could get by with the 8kW unit but when my well pump starts it really draws down the 11kW unit so I'm now glad I didn't get the small er one.

[Rick in WNY]

Where I live, NY Finger Lakes, we rarely see power outages in the summer, like once in the past 20 years. But we do get outages in the winter.

My first backup system was a 500 watt inverter and a good deep cycle battery. It's enough to run our natural gas furnace (measured 150 watt load) for about 2 days of normal operation. Outages rarely last more than 4-5 hours, I think 10 is the record since I've owned this house.

Nowdays I have my 5kW propane generator, and a second one out at my camper. According to the book, a 20lb tank should last 20 hours, I can tell you, I've not had any problems.

https://www.amazon.com/XP4850EH-Starting-Electric-Portable-Generator/dp/B00J7V5ENG

[kingoffleece]

The folks I know with Generac don't ever report any problems.