V85 TT Merged Threadfest

[Muzz]

I'm more unimpressed with the 2 valve heads.  I also kinda like the bolt on rear wheel of my Stelvio.

Spud

I am probably wrong here but in my somewhat fractured memory banks I have it that two valve heads tend to give better low end torque than 4 valve heads, which is where a bike like this would want it.

[not-fishing]

 

Yeah well some of us Want to Be Seen on the road.

Dark colors are all nice and bad but keeping oneself out of the EU is more important to some ------ like me  Another fat finger moment I meant ER - I've always hated acronyms must be my bad experience with the Navy

Do a little downhill mountain biking in the forest and you'll understand why some of us wear "loud" clothes.

[bad Chad]

Yeah well some of us Want to Be Seen on the road.

Dark colors are all nice and bad but keeping oneself out of the EU is more important to some ------ like me

Do a little downhill mountain biking in the forest and you'll understand why some of us wear "loud" clothes.

What do you have against Europe?

[WitchCityGuzzi]

What's all the bitchn? 

Good job Aprilia for keeping it alive.   

Everytime Guzzi has a new bike there is a rush to beat the crap out of it. Why?? 

How many of you would buy it if it had tubeless rims, weighed less than a GS, different color, well over 100 HP, etc, etc????

Exactly. I think we know how many. You basically described the Stelvio and they barely sold. Then of course when they were discontinued everyone decried the loss.  I remember everyone dumping on the original Stelvio because it's tank wasn't big enought, etc, etc. Then they built the NTX with the bigger tank and they still didn't really sell. I believe this bike can make 80hp. 100hp per liter is not a magic number anymore. (Hell, my tuned Fiat Abarth is making nearly 237hp out of 1400cc's.) We'll have to wait and see I guess. Honestly, that's not that important to me anyway. I'm more curious how the suspension works offroad. I'd like it to have tubeless rims, but I can deal with taping the rims.

I hope Guzzi only builds them to order too. Guzzi needs to stop having bikes on the showroom floor that people wait til they're half priced to buy. It's not a great business model.

I hope that people don't miss the boat on this one like they did with the Stelvio. About the time folks figured out it was one of the best values in ADV bikes, it went away.

[Tusayan]

Sellers “miss the boat” when buyers choose to commit their money elsewhere and the seller is forced to sell at discounted prices.  That’s a problem Piaggio has to solve for themselves with the V85TT, the buyers will have no problem resolving their own problems, with or without Piaggio.  Aprilia is not involved to the best of my knowledge.

[Tusayan]

What do you have against Europe?

My guess is that the author would like to stay out of the ER by being visible and didn’t intend to say anything at all about the EU or Europe.   

[jwinwi]

If they get the "little stuff" right with it, make it dependable and not needing sorting out-of-the-box then they will have a winner in my eyes.


Um....it's a GUZZI.

[jas67]

I believe this bike can make 80hp. 100hp per liter is not a magic number anymore.

Agreed, but, most motorcycles that do that are either four valve/cylinder and water cooled, or, in the case of Ducati's 2V air cooled motors, Desmo.
I think 80 HP might be a stretch, but, I guess with the right engineering, is plausible.

(Hell, my tuned Fiat Abarth is making nearly 237hp out of 1400cc's.)

Your Fiat is turbocharged, water cooled, and 4 valves per cylinder.   Hardly a fair comparison.

[blu guzz]

my wife's fiat, the 500c normally aspirated 5 speed is 100 hp - about the same as my 1400 Cali.  The Fiat gets better highway mileage and is a blast to drive on a winding road.

[Rough Edge racing]

  100 hp per 1000 cc's is a two valve normally aspirated  number, OHV or OHC....and it's pretty accurate for even for hot street engines...Current crop of sportbikes with 4 valve heads and some having variable cam timing exceed that easily, almost double and absolutely insane power.

[Luap McKeever]

I think it's wonderful. Why, because it's getting all the older Guzzi riders in an uproar.  That HAS to be good for the younger market. Like the old saying goes; "If the elders hate it, the youngers will love it". Like it or not, we need younger Guzzi owners in a bad way and the TT just might be the one to fit the bill.

If only they had more dealers...

[Kev m]

I think it's wonderful. Why, because it's getting all the older Guzzi riders in an uproar.  That HAS to be good for the younger market. Like the old saying goes; "If the elders hate it, the youngers will love it". Like it or not, we need younger Guzzi owners in a bad way and the TT just might be the one to fit the bill.

If only they had more dealers...

 

[MadMike]

And its Shaft Driven which makes it awesome. To get this value in the three lettered German brand, you'll have to spend mega Euro's and end up with some heavy asymmetrical headlight looking thing with weird front suspension. Blah. The V85TT in my opinion is a modern take on R100GS from back in the day. The German brand lost its way after this model in terms of weight, complexity, and various levels of ugly.
Good job Moto Guzzi. Good times will be had.

[SteveRivet]

I think this will be a raging hit for Guzzi. 

Price is very attractive vs peers, styling is solid, they've made the point that it's designed to accommodate the sub-six foot crowd, and power is sufficient.   You can argue weight and power against peers, but if the motor pulls like a typical Guzzi it will deliver more than needed real world power, and it's not exactly a secret that 90% of the adventure bikes never see dirt.  Yeah - the guys that will actually take one off road will get a KTM or one of the pimped up BMW's, or the Yamaha 700 Tenere when it hits the shores, bt that's a minority.

[Joliet Jim]

Just for comparison some numbers off the internet from New Zealand
EV
74 HP
67.8 HP RW and
70lbs torque

I know the 1100 never left me wanting more power, so this bike should be interesting if the numbers hold

[Kev m]

Just for comparison some numbers off the internet from New Zealand
EV
74 HP
67.8 HP RW and
70lbs torque

I know the 1100 never left me wanting more power, so this bike should be interesting if the numbers hold

And weight was closer to 600# wet on an EV.


Hell the Cal-Vin was 616# wet, and rated 72 hp at the crank / 70 ft. lbs  --- which translated to ~68 rwhp/~58 torques

[Tusayan]

And its Shaft Driven which makes it awesome. To get this value in the three lettered German brand, you'll have to spend mega Euro's and end up with some heavy asymmetrical headlight looking thing with weird front suspension. Blah. The V85TT in my opinion is a modern take on R100GS from back in the day. The German brand lost its way after this model in terms of weight, complexity, and various levels of ugly.

Good job Moto Guzzi. Good times will be had.

As a big fan of Guzzis and of the R100GS (I’ve had three including my current ’90) I’m hopeful that it will be a “modernized R100GS”.  If so it will be because of modernized detail engineering, as well as keeping an eye on basic issues like easy serviceability and simplicity.  On a higher level it lacks some of the innovative design that makes the old GS such an effective bike: anti-jacking rear suspension, single sided swing arm and tubeless tires.  OTOH it may have more power, better front brake and a stiffer chassis.

I agree completely about new BMWs - I find them very unattractive.  It was a shame that neither the Quota and Stelvio effectively addressed the market for a bike that BMW hasn't made for a long time.

[AH Fan]

And its Shaft Driven which makes it awesome. To get this value in the three lettered German brand, you'll have to spend mega Euro's and end up with some heavy asymmetrical headlight looking thing with weird front suspension. Blah. The V85TT in my opinion is a modern take on R100GS from back in the day. The German brand lost its way after this model in terms of weight, complexity, and various levels of ugly.
Good job Moto Guzzi. Good times will be had.

Well said.... 

Ciao

[rdbandkab]

The German brand lost its way after this model in terms of weight, complexity, and various levels of ugly.

 

[dxhall]

I am really tempted to put a deposit down on one of these.  My local dealer is not great.  Any recommendations on a dealer for a fly and ride deal?  If I retire next spring, I may have some time for a trip.

[steven c]

 New promo Video
https://youtu.be/fUn1ABj4xBE

[TimmyTheHog]

And its Shaft Driven which makes it awesome. To get this value in the three lettered German brand, you'll have to spend mega Euro's and end up with some heavy asymmetrical headlight looking thing with weird front suspension. Blah. The V85TT in my opinion is a modern take on R100GS from back in the day. The German brand lost its way after this model in terms of weight, complexity, and various levels of ugly.
Good job Moto Guzzi. Good times will be had.

HEAR HEAR!

If the German stuck to the styling of how they were building the airhead, that will be a different story...

While V85TT may not be the most tech advance bike out there, Guzzi def wins the styling and simplicity department...follow ing close 2nd with Triumph 1200scram.

Again...WAITING for that real independent rider review!!! *coughHuzocough* 

[Huzo]

HEAR HEAR!

If the German stuck to the styling of how they were building the airhead, that will be a different story...

While V85TT may not be the most tech advance bike out there, Guzzi def wins the styling and simplicity department...follow ing close 2nd with Triumph 1200scram.

Again...WAITING for that real independent rider review!!! *coughHuzocough* 

I'm sure I won't be the first Timmy.
But the order is in and the money is waiting...

[Trialsman]

But the order is in and the money is waiting...

Same here guys (since March).  Reviews will be plentiful.  I am hoping the original date for the dealers of Jan holds instead of the March date.

[JohninVT]

  100 hp per 1000 cc's is a two valve normally aspirated  number, OHV or OHC....and it's pretty accurate for even for hot street engines...Current crop of sportbikes with 4 valve heads and some having variable cam timing exceed that easily, almost double and absolutely insane power.

I can’t think of one factory motorcycle putting out 100hp per liter that has screw and locknut valves or air-cooling. 

[inditx]

I am really tempted to put a deposit down on one of these.  My local dealer is not great.  Any recommendations on a dealer for a fly and ride deal?  If I retire next spring, I may have some time for a trip.

Enzo at Cadre Cycle in Cincinnati

[Lcarlson]

The German brand lost its way after this model in terms of weight, complexity, and various levels of ugly.

I disagree 🥴🥴🥴

[Perazzimx14]

I disagree 🥴🥴🥴

I agree with your disagreement.

[Cam3512]

I agree with your disagreement.

I disagree with your agree of disagreement.

[pete roper]

I can’t think of one factory motorcycle putting out 100hp per liter that has screw and locknut valves or air-cooling.

Exactly. The 100hp/l figure is linked to 'Old School' air cooled, 2VPC motors. Modern engines are another completely different kettle of bananas.

In one of the more recent press releases there were a few things that I thought were a bit weird. Talk of roller tappets and mention of roller rockers from memory. That's all very well but both will add significantly to the mass of the valvetrain. The use of Ti valve heads on the inlet valves won't compensate for that extra, power-sapping, mass.

We are also talking about only two valves per cylinder. It doesn't matter how big you make them, (and once again size men's added mass.) the fact remains that a single large valve won't flow as much gas as two smaller ones. Volumetric efficiency is going to suffer.

The one that really piqued my interest though was the statement that seemed to imply that power had been boosted by evacuating the crankcase so the pistons weren't having to fight against crankcase pressure. Now this one is really perplexing. If this is the case, and it would explain the full dry sumping choice, you would need a super effective scavenge pump that can run both gas tight and with spotty lubrication but the main thing is that if this is what is expected to be achieved it's going to be a negative sum game because you can't add another level of mechanical movement without loosing more power than you are going to gain. It's an impossibility, like a perpetual motion machine. The pump not only has to move the mass of the gas and oil inside the case, it also has to be driven. This all takes power from the motor. This is a motorbike engine. Not a fusion reactor! None of it makes any sense!

I'll say it again. I really hope they sell these things by the boatload. I think they are likely to be a great, fun, bike. What worries me is that they will claim the impossible for it and when it is exposed it will immediately be panned in the press and ignored by the public.

I remain hopeful they will Hi-Cam and 4VPC it. The transverse V design is ideal for such a system and it is a lot simpler and more practical than a DOHC with shim and bucket lash adjustment system. It will also give a decent and realistic performance boost.

Pete