V85 TT Merged Threadfest

[JohninVT]

Whatever the Stelvio is or is not, I've seen a guy ride circles around several top notch naked street bikes.  Enough so to make them look foolish.  With the right pilot that overweight bike can embarrass almost anything in the twisties.
But, I digress............ ...........

I think the long travel suspension on most ADV bikes has a lot more to do with it than anything else.  Track times are irrelevant as soon as you throw sand, frost heaves and broken pavement into the mix.  A suspension set up on the soft side can be hugely beneficial depending on the road surface and that's counter intuitive for most squids.  You can ride a 160hp sportbike but if hitting a mid corner frost heave flicks you into a guardrail it really makes the power and track worthiness of the bike meaningless.  You can lean almost any ADV bike over, hit a mid corner bump and not run out of suspension travel(usually).     

[Numbercruncher]

Weight, seat height and fuel capacity please.

NC

[Cam3512]

Weight, seat height and fuel capacity please.

NC

Light weight, low seat, high fuel?

[steven c]

 I read somewhere 505 lb's. Was hoping for about 50 LBs lighter then that. My Buell Ulysses weighs in at 498 with that lump of a motor.

[Paul Brooking]

Its supposed to be an adventure bike. Isn't the whole point to make a bike to compete with the BMW 800GS and Triumph XC 800s? The Stelvio was never an adventure bike, just a grossly overweight streetbike.
 

Give that man a cigar 

[bad Chad]

I think you read pure speculation.  Nobody has the hard numbers yet.

[skippy]

About the motor
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.motociclismo.it%2Fmoto-guzzi-v85-segreti-motore-intervista-cappellini-70088&edit-text=

Good read. Tantalizing information. Some nice little tidbits dropped in like the mention of a liquid cooled motor in the works, probably for big bikes. Also mentioned a street only version with this motor, hello, V85 Lemans?

Skippy

[PeteS]

Its supposed to be an adventure bike. Isn't the whole point to make a bike to compete with the BMW 800GS and Triumph XC 800s? The Stelvio was never an adventure bike, just a grossly overweight streetbike.
 

Hundreds of folks have done that ride on Goldwings and Harley dressers. Whats the point? There are Goldwingers who can ride circles around sport bikers. Just becuase you can ride them on roads, including gravel roads and even ride them fast doesn't make it a dual sport.

Pete

[egschade]

I think the long travel suspension on most ADV bikes has a lot more to do with it than anything else.  Track times are irrelevant as soon as you throw sand, frost heaves and broken pavement into the mix.  A suspension set up on the soft side can be hugely beneficial depending on the road surface and that's counter intuitive for most squids. <SNIP>

+1 The suspension will be key for me. Was this || close to buying a Stelvio instead of the V7 for that reason but chose lighter weight over better suspension. The V85 could be that middle ground between the two. I guess I'm after an F700 with character. I loved the way that bike rode but the engine was a buzzy industrial lump that did nothing for me.

[usedtobefast]

I'm new to the Moto Guzzi world (bought my first one Feb 2018!).

I'm assuming first year models have some issues to sort out?  Like I would not buy a first year KTM model where they have a new engine platform (like the 790). 

Any thoughts/concerns about this?

[pyoungbl]

Guzzi tends to evolve the drive train rather than start from scratch with a new design.  Yes, they will claim that the new mill is a total redesign.  Still, for the most part they are building on the tried and true big or small block lump.  I will give the V85 a serious look when it finally hits the dealer floor.  If it turns out to be a smaller/lighter version of my Stelvio I'll get one.  Any small niggles will be sorted out with the help of this community.  I really don't expect a serious problem but the ECU usually benefits from a re-flash....and we have people here to sort that out.

Peter Y.

[Kev m]

I'm new to the Moto Guzzi world (bought my first one Feb 2018!).

I'm assuming first year models have some issues to sort out?  Like I would not buy a first year KTM model where they have a new engine platform (like the 790). 

Any thoughts/concerns about this?

Meh, that's a philosophical discussion or maybe just more a matter of faith.

Some never buy a first year from anyone, others will.

I have, with a number of different brands - including a first year EFI RK from Harley, a first year EFI rubbermount Sporty from Harley, a first year single throttle body V7.

Hell, come to think of it, they include some of my best bikes over the years.

I wouldn't hesitate based on those experiences. Though the V7 did have a few teething issues, they were relatively small.

[Matteo]

Thanks for the link Skippy!

[Lcarlson]

+1 The suspension will be key for me. Was this || close to buying a Stelvio instead of the V7 for that reason but chose lighter weight over better suspension. The V85 could be that middle ground between the two. I guess I'm after an F700 with character. I loved the way that bike rode but the engine was a buzzy industrial lump that did nothing for me.

The engine was part of the attraction of the F700GS for me. I don�t find it buzzy at all (quite the contrary at the low to mid range rpms it�s really designed for). And while it�s not particularly exciting with the tall gearing, it�s got great long legs in the bargain. Best of all, it�s practically all sweet spot, more than any other bike I�ve owned. Of course, we all look for different things in our bikes, as it should be.

[jas67]

Guzzi tends to evolve the drive train rather than start from scratch with a new design.  Yes, they will claim that the new mill is a total redesign.  Still, for the most part they are building on the tried and true big or small block lump.

The Lario 4V/cyl. motor was largely based on the existing tried and true small block lump.
Look at all the problems they had with valves dropping.

Granted, the Lario had an all new valve train, where the V85 motor does look to be more of an evolution of the V9 motor.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

The Lario 4V/cyl. motor was largely based on the existing tried and true small block lump.
Look at all the problems they had with valves dropping.

Granted, the Lario had an all new valve train, where the V85 motor does look to be more of an evolution of the V9 motor.

Which also had/has problems with the "valves dropping" (at least those of the '70s and '80s).

[Socalrob]

+1 The suspension will be key for me. Was this || close to buying a Stelvio instead of the V7 for that reason but chose lighter weight over better suspension. The V85 could be that middle ground between the two. I guess I'm after an F700 with character. I loved the way that bike rode but the engine was a buzzy industrial lump that did nothing for me.

Suspension should not be too expensive to update on the V85.  Matris cartridge kit up front for about $700 & since it is a single rear shock, $1000 or so for something very top line I would expect.

[giusto]

Even more more recent news. This article says it was officially unvieled last Friday-Sunday.

And there will continue to be doubters  Avialable at a dealer near you...? Spring 19 


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwj-tNrd5rjdAhXLdN8KHZFFA90QqOcBCAwwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.motopinas.com%2Fmotorcycle-news%2Fmoto-guzzi-debuts-the-production-v85-tt-modern-classic-enduro.html&usg=AOvVaw14WfonNnBt5rG5jeB528Zd

[Huzo]

Nutz

The following is not held up as a definitive document on the Physics involved but for anyone interested..
If you imagine a bike coming toward you on an arbritrary angle of lean, let's say for simplicity 45 degrees.
We know that the resultant of the vectors act through the Centre of Mass, in this case it will be somewhere between the rider's wedding tackle and his blurter.
I'm assuming guys outside Oz are similarly blessed as us, in the downstairs department, but I will stand corrected.
Anywayyy..
Here comes our hunky hero on his Red 10 year old Norge leaning at a seemingly suicidal aforementioned 45 degrees and all is well.
If you imagine a rope hanging vertically from his nether region with X force being supplied by gravity, were it not for the fact that there is another force at play, our intrepid rider would be slammed down on his side and the ride would be over.
But help is at hand...
Fortunately Sir Issac Newton saw to it that there is also a horizontal force trying to stand the bike upright, and this is referred to as Centrifugal force, (actually erroneously since it is only the equal and opposite reaction to the Centripetal force turning the bike around the corner, but if we may go on..)
If you can conjure the image in your mind, you have a vertical pull on the imaginary rope downwards toward the Earth's core and an equally strong force pulling horizontally toward the horizon, (a tangent if you will)..
Clearly if these forces are equal, the bike will remain in balance and this is the case 99.995% of the time.
It can be seen if you examine the diagram that you have drawn in your head, that it will not matter how far up from the road these two "ropes" are pulling, that is, how high the C of M is, balance is restored and the sum of forces is zero within the system..
If the above example leads you to some level of concern regarding ropes and wedding tackle, fear not, it was an attempt to give an Earthy type analogy to a theoretical discussion.
Ok then..
Harness secure.. Here we go 

[Huzo]

Even more more recent news. This article says it was officially unvieled last Friday-Sunday.

And there will continue to be doubters  Avialable at a dealer near you...? Spring 19 


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwj-tNrd5rjdAhXLdN8KHZFFA90QqOcBCAwwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.motopinas.com%2Fmotorcycle-news%2Fmoto-guzzi-debuts-the-production-v85-tt-modern-classic-enduro.html&usg=AOvVaw14WfonNnBt5rG5jeB528Zd

Doubters you say...!
BWWWAAAAHHHHAAAAAHH HHAAA!!!!
Shit, surely not...!
Sure looks real in the photo's doesn't it ?

[giusto]

Yes I did say ...and exactly my point... thank you :)

When this all started a year ago a significant contingent said it would be many years if it ever happened

Just gotta have a little faith and cough up the dough

[Kev m]

The following is not held up as a definitive document on the Physics involved but for anyone interested..
If you imagine a bike coming toward you on an arbrirary angle of lean, let's say for simplicity 45 degrees.
We know that the resultant of the vectors act through the Centre of Mass, in this case it will be somewhere between the rider's wedding tackle and his blurter.
I'm assuming guys outside Oz are similarly blessed as us in the downstairs department, but I will stand corrected.
Anywayyy..
Here comes our hunky hero on his red 10 year old Norge leaning at a seemingly suicidal aforementioned 45 degrees and all is well.
If you imagine a rope hanging vertically from his nether region with X force being supplied by gravity, were it not for the fact that there is another force at play, our intrepid rider would be slammed down on his side and the ride would be over.
But help is at hand...
Fortunately Sir Issac Newton saw to it that there is also a horizontal force trying to stand the bike upright, and this is referred to as Centrifugal force, (actually erroneously since it is only the equal and opposite reaction to the Centripetal force turning the bike around the corner, but if we may go on..)
If you can conjure the image in your mind, you have a vertical pull on the imaginary rope downwards toward the Earth's core and an equally strong force pulling horizontally toward the horizon, (a tangent if you will)..
Clearly if these forces are equal, the bike will remain in balance and this is the case 99.995% of the time.
It can be seen if you examine the diagram that you have drawn in your head, that it will not matter how far up from the road these two "ropes" are pulling, that is, how high the C of M is, balance is restored and the sum of forces is zero within the system..
If the above example leads you to some level of concern regarding ropes and wedding tackle, fear not, it was an attempt to give an Earthy type analogy to a theoretical discussion.
Ok then..
Harness secure.. Here we go 

I understood most of that. But what then changes when you lean your upper body and head closer to the mirror on the downside.

I mean my wedding tackle is still tickling the shifter either way, but I've been taught by a riding instructor that "kissing the mirror" like that reduces lean angle for a given speed.

[inditx]

Please!!!
I am color blind anyway, just give me the bike!
rant over

[Paul Brooking]

I understood most of that. But what then changes when you lean your upper body and head closer to the mirror on the downside.

I mean my wedding tackle is still tickling the shifter either way, but I've been taught by a riding instructor that "kissing the mirror" like that reduces lean angle for a given speed.

"kissing the Mirror" .... ???? ..... You sure you're not a  Closet BMW rider???     

[Cam3512]

"kissing the Mirror" .... ???? ..... You sure you're not a  Closet BMW rider???     

Keeping the bike more upright in curves and leaning the body = more rubber on the road and better control.  Guys tearing it up on the track in 1000 lb gold wings...

[Huzo]

Yes I did say ...and exactly my point... thank you :)

When this all started a year ago a significant contingent said it would be many years if it ever happened

Just gotta have a little faith and cough up the dough

Yep..
Somewhere there's a list of those who lost confidence early on..
Now..
Where is that list..?

[Huzo]

I understood most of that. But what then changes when you lean your upper body and head closer to the mirror on the downside.

I mean my wedding tackle is still tickling the shifter either way, but I've been taught by a riding instructor that "kissing the mirror" like that reduces lean angle for a given speed.

Yeah Kev it does, it's a fair point you make.
But.
Leaning the bike one way, will necessitate leaning your body the other, thus keeping the all important Centre of Mass on that imaginary line down through the bike to the road.
You could strap a 150 kg piece of lead to one foot peg and still ride down the road but clearly the bike would be leaning toward the "lighter" side to get the "you know what" back in the right place.
When guys say they put more weight on the inside peg or some other bullshit, they are just having a toss.
If you stand heavier on one peg, your body will fall to the other side and you'll then find you're leaning the bike artificially to compensate.
Because there is no lateral stabilising wheels like in a sidecar, you can put any damn thing anywhere you like and you will always have the C of M above the point of support as long as your arse points towards the Earth.

[Huzo]

Please!!!
I am color blind anyway, just give me the bike!
rant over

That's gunna' be a problem if you're waiting for the " green light..."

[Kev m]

"kissing the Mirror" .... ???? ..... You sure you're not a  Closet BMW rider???     

One of our own (Guzzi rider, member here) has a riding school in which one of the mantras taught is to "kiss the mirror" which is the quick way to remember to shift your upper body forward and into the lean towards the mirrors. Position your head, shoulders, and torso towards the mirror as if you were trying to kiss it.

http://streetskills.net/cornering-confidence-program/

Yeah Kev it does, it's a fair point you make.
But.
Leaning the bike one way, will necessitate leaning your body the other, thus keeping the all important Centre of Mass on that imaginary line down through the bike to the road.

WOAH, no you completely missed my question. I'm not talking about counter-leaning during low speed maneuvers. I'm talking about leaning into the turn while corning at moderate to high speeds to counter the force trying to slam it to the ground toward the outside of the turn.

I'm asking if the taller suspension doesn't have a net positive effect making it easier because the center of mass is where your butt hits the seat, why does this shift I describe above (the kissing the mirrors) have an effect?

[bpreynolds]

So lemme get this straight, heh. Guzzi has a new 850 engine that makes roughly 80 horsepower and they're NOT going to put that straight into the successful V7 format?  Instead, let's first put it in a traile that weighs more than it's competition and cost 14 grand.     Moto Guzzi.  Still going out of business.