V85 TT Merged Threadfest

[ridingron]

Many people think throwing out insubstantial one liners is BS, maybe you disagree.

Are you going to buy a V85TT as they arrive in the showrooms? Will you be unhappy when somebody shows up with cash to buy it after you don’t want it any more?  Or you would prefer that nobody buy used bikes?

I couldn’t say whether Guzz buyers are smart shoppers in general or better investors than average, but I do think they are pretty good at maximizing value in the motorcycle market specifically.

The ‘under Euro 12K’ price will be in Europe, including what in most places is 20% VAT.  I’d guess the US price will be about the same price in USD, probably a little less, plus whatever sales tax may apply to your purchase.

I have very little interest in buying the bike. The gas tank is too small and it has wire wheels. I do think it is a nice looking bike.

[twowheeladdict]

Yep.
Just how do you think that can be made to happen ?

A lot of test hours and miles. 

[pete roper]

I bought my new Guzzis when Guzzi was still Guzzi. I have little interest in an Aprilia or Piaggio. 

Bullshit Charlie! The company was owned by the Tomato by the time of the Eldo and G5!

Pete

[rdbandkab]

The V85 looks great, but they all do when they're at this stage.   Hopefully, there won't be some stupid issue with running gear, a map, or lights, or charging system... 
Have at her boys.  I'll probably not buy this model, only because it has that ADV look about it and we're not partial to that style right now.  If I don't see a new model that checks the boxes that suit our style of touring, I'll probably see what aprilia has at the time.  So far, we have a Guzzi and aprilia dealership that are only 2-ish hours away.  Parts and service(if I can't do it), although a pain, is relatively close.   
I'm hoping that Guzzi comes up with a "more Breva than Norge" style bike with this new lump...for our 2up trips through the mountains of WV.  If not,  it'll be interesting to see what the sister company comes up with.
If nothing from either side, I may have to look elsewhere for our new scoot.   Although buying a later model Norge and stripping it down to my tastes isn't totally out of the question.
I've only had 3 Guzzi.   2 used and 1 new.

[Tusayan]

Bullshit Charlie! The company was owned by the Tomato by the time of the Eldo and G5!

Pete

The two situations are in no way comparable:  when DeTomaso owned Guzzi it was a fully functioning company with company management, engineering staff, parts organization that interfaced with Centro Ricambi and so on. This had been the case continuously since the Mandello company was founded a million years ago.  Under Piaggio, Guzzi as a registered company was dissolved and it is now a Piaggio brand name and a factory, with essentially no professional staff..  The engineering is done mostly by people in Pontedera.  Moto Guzzi was ended as a company under Piaggio.

I've had four Guzzis, one bought new, and the latest and I'm guessing probably last was the new one built in 1997.  At that time time my income and investments were just at the point that I could consider $10-15K new bikes and since then I've bought others, as well as a bunch of used Ducatis.  However, I skipped the last real Guzzi (the V11 Sport) because the plastic tank and overtly retro styling turned me off a bit and not long after Aprilia took over, which was sort of OK, and then Piaggio, which has been a disaster in my eyes.  If the V85TT were truly and functionally an updated replacement for my R100GS I think I'd consider it, which is more than I could say for anything else Piaggio has built but for a small block bike to rise to that level of overall performance, functionality and quality is a stretch.  Time will tell...

[bad Chad]

 Come on, not this crap again !

[Litre1000]

The two situations are in no way comparable:  when DeTomaso owned Guzzi it was a fully functioning company with company management, engineering staff, parts organization that interfaced with Centro Ricambi and so on. This had been the case continuously since the Mandello company was founded a million years ago.  Under Piaggio the company an an organization was dissolved and it is now a Piaggio brand name and a factory, with essentially no professional staff..  The engineering is done mostly by people in Pontedera.  Moto Guzzi was ended as a company under Piaggio.

That’s the point. I don’t even own a Guzzi....yet. But, I can see they aren’t “real”... I feel the brand was bought and gutted. Everything made since is just a “fronter”. It looks like a Guzzi, but it ain’t no Guzzi. Why am I here? Im learning about the Guzzi that interests me. A Daytona, a Scura, or V11 Sport Lemans...
On a side-note... when looking at how the other brands are investing big bucks into their lineups, I can’t understand why a new version of the MGS-01 isn’t released to the public. I’m ready for that!!!!!!!


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[Tusayan]

@Litre1000, the MGS-01 was designed and assembled by a consultant company near Mandello, and that possibility was ended when Piaggio took over.  As I understood it from somebody near Pontedera, Ghezzi (the consultant designer) had been hired by Guzzi by that point but was alienated by Piaggio and left soon after.

Since then Piaggio has been bumbling along without much in the way of inspiration, eventually ending production of what Aprilia designed during their period of control, without replacing it.  Guzzis current best seller is based on improving a 1970s design. Miguel Galluzzi joined Piaggio and then moved away to Pasadena, California where he originally went to school, and he's used as a resource.  He's a super talented guy by all accounts but I get the impression the impact of his ideas is restricted by Piaggio.  The cruiser thing looks like a lot of other competitors and hasn't been successful in the market.  I don't know if he was involved in the V85TT or not, but I do see it as having potential, personally.  Working on the cheaper-to-produce small block might be the right direction if they can do as Ducati did, taking the budget engine and improving it greatly over time.

[Socalrob]

I bought my new Guzzis when Guzzi was still Guzzi. I have little interest in an Aprilia or Piaggio. 

Thanks for insulting my V7iii.

I recall when this board was a friendlier place.

[Socalrob]

11 pages of mostly BS. I would be surprised if during the first year of sales, this group buys a half dozen.      

I would be happy to accept a bet that by the end of the first year of sales there are more than 6 members on this board owning the new bike.

[Huzo]

I would be happy to accept a bet that by the end of the first year of sales there are more than 6 members on this board owning the new bike.

I'll have three please...!

[pebra]

Winter starting early this year? Or are we seeing sectarianism? 
Fortunately I'm unprincipled enough to enjoy both old and new Guzzis. 

[Matteo]

Thanks for insulting my V7iii.

I recall when this board was a friendlier place.

Rob, your V7 is a direct descendant of the 80's small blocks. Not Aprilia, with a facelift by Piaggio.

[Trialsman]

11 pages of mostly BS. I would be surprised if during the first year of sales, this group buys a half dozen.      

I really think you will lose your bet. I already have had money down on one for several months now. Today I am in Florence and tomorrow off to the factory in del Lario. Hopefully I will see the V85 up close and will get some pictures. I will look at the attachment of the swing arm, brand of rear shock, and possibility for center stand. Any others?


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[JohninVT]

You guys make me laugh with your “last real Guzzi” stuff.  How many times has Ducati changed hands?  It’s owned by VW fer chrissakes.  Does that mean they’re not “real” Ducati’s?  Dumbest post on here this week.

[pete roper]

I have to agree John. I know I'm probably a bit guilty of it myself and I despise what Piaggio have done with Guzzi so far the fact remains that it is virtually impossible in this day and age to have a small, stand alone company. It's simply a business model that won't fly in something as complex as vehicle manufacture.

It's all very well to hark back to the 'Good Old days' but in reality they weren't so crash-hot and despite the yearnings of some for junk like points and carburettors and the pathological fear of 'Plastic' the fact remains that in almost every quantifiable way modern vehicles are cleaner, more economical and more reliable than those from those supposedly 'Good' old days. Yes, it can be argued that there is added 'Complexity' but if that were the sole criteria for rejection we's all still be riding VB Ariels and BSA M20's!

Pete

[Aaron D.]

Everyone knows real Guzzis have only 1 cylinder, right?

The "corporate identity" thing is silly. They are machines. Every company that lasts beyond its original designer and founder is changed.

[Kev m]

John and Peter as my heros... Who knew?!?

[emoji2962]

[Aaron D.]

Ironically, in a very real way the simplest motorcycle I ever owned has been my Indian Scout.

[bad Chad]

How so?

[Tusayan]

The "corporate identity" thing is silly. They are machines. Every company that lasts beyond its original designer and founder is changed.

Carlo Guzzi died in 1964, my first visit there was in 1989 and there was very clearly an identity to the place and the product that was present there until probably 2002 or so.  In 2004 things started to change, although with a great big 1921 factory, statue of Carlo Guzzi, and V8 sculpture there it's a bit hard to erase. I've  been there about ten times in all and if you haven't been and are open to changing an uninformed opiion, I'd suggest going. 

Piaggio is not Moto Guzzi, and Italy is not corporate America (or corporate Germany either for that matter, in reference to the Ducati/VW comment above.  My newest of four Ducatis is a 2001, with good reason).  I might consider a new MV.

[twowheeladdict]

Thanks for insulting my V7iii.

I recall when this board was a friendlier place.

The V7 is the only reason I own a Moto Guzzi.  For the money there are a lot more reliable machines out there, but none with a shaft drive.

[pete roper]

Your assumption that others have not been there is based on what?

Your final statement would indicate to me that you are stuck in the past like an insect in amber. Either that or you are making a statement with slightly odd undertones of nationalism and racism?

Pete

[jdgretz]

Being one of those apparently rare individuals who bought their Guzzi as a new bike, I have to say that this one has me interested.  I'd like more than 200 mile range - in fact, 200 miles is sort of my lower limit for mileage on a tank of fuel - with reserve to go.

My desire is for a lightish weight, light off-road duty motorcycle.  Something what will handle gravel and hard packed dirt well and can fall over without costing $1000 in parts to fix.  I want to be able to ride to the aircraft crash sites in the Mojave desert, Scotty's Castle in Death Valley, Bodie Ghost Town (last 7 miles are gravel and dirt), and some of the neat places in Utah, without worrying about the plastic on the Norge, the weight of the Norge, or the silly idea of taking my Goldwing to those places.

I don't plan to spend a year in South America riding single track, so something like this sounds good to me.  The F800GS is too expensive and has the anti-theft antenna issue to worry about.  The other real options to me are a Ural or CSC RX-3 for around $4K (which probably makes the most sense, but I still like the idea of the V85).

As for the mileage figures quoted back a few pages - a quick look at Fuelly.com shows what people are reporting on the V7 series.  Most folks are getting mid-40s - be they V7, V7II or V7III in whatever trim.  There are currently no V9s listed.

jdg

[Tusayan]

Your assumption that others have not been there is based on what?

Your final statement would indicate to me that you are stuck in the past like an insect in amber. Either that or you are making a statement with slightly odd undertones of nationalism and racism?

Pete

Really?  Thats a bit bizarre, eh? It appears that somebody else is "slightly odd" to me.

I've travelled enough (I hold three passports, and speak three languages) and done enough with motorcycles to understand what has lasting value to the market, and what is cheap, transient nonsense...  and by the way IMO that includes your over dramatized silliness.

Do you still remember, Pete, your assertion that Piaggio should move Guzzi to Monza?  If they'd done that Piaggio would have killed them like Gilera by now, absolutely no question. What Guzzi has to sell is exactly its culture and values, blended into a bike that people enjoy riding and owning as a reflection of those values. That does not mean living in the past, especially given Guzzis long history of combining creative innovation with practicality, and it's been obvious for a long time.  Piaggio has started to figure that out, but unfortunately they spent the R&D budget ineffectually copying BMW.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Thanks for insulting my V7iii.

I recall when this board was a friendlier place.

Wow, you make one little joke and folks get all upset. You did see the smiling devil at the end of the sentence, no? Holy crap...

[kingoffleece]

This is very entertaining to say the least.

[beetle]

[Tusayan]

It appears whoever created that cartoon knows very little about Citroen, their involvement in technology, and what it might do to an Italian marque.  Maseratis built during the period of Citroens ownership (pre De Tomaso) in actuality added inappropriate technology relative to the Maserati market's interests, not the converse.  Pneumatic power assisted clutch, anybody?  The 'Citroen' Maseratis (Merak, Khamsin etc) are valued lower today for that reason.

[beetle]

Geez, get a sense of humour installed, will you? There I fixed it for you.