V85 TT Merged Threadfest

[JJ]

60HP vs 80HP aside, you have to admit, this is one nice looking Guzzi!! :1:

[fotoguzzi]

60HP vs 80HP aside, you have to admit, this is one nice looking Guzzi!! :1:

no I don't have to admit it.. looks like a hodge-podge of lines and colors, too busy.. the red looks out of place or paint the white and yellow areas red instead.
is that pic just photoshop?

[LowRyter]

Since when ist that high? In 2018? From an engine engineered by Aprilia?

I think the issue is pushrods, does it have 'em?  I didn't see a cam bulge in those valve covers. 

It still looks like Guzzi engine, I don't see an Aprilia with a motor like that.

[JJ]

no I don't have to admit it.. looks like a hodge-podge of lines and colors, too busy.. the red looks out of place or paint the white and yellow areas red instead.
is that pic just photoshop?

Hi footguzzi...don't know if that photo is or was photo-shopped (??) 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder for sure...   and especially when it comes to cars / motorcycles!

Old Japanese proverb:  "A garden with all the same color flowers would be boring..." 

I always like this Guzzi classic...but many people did not... :1:

[acguzzi]

I believe the manual for my 79 lemans is 80 Hp, has nothing changed? are they being more realistic? It measures at mid 60s at the rear wheel for what that is worth, and that is with a better cam and carbs.

[Matteo]

So do we know that this model is coming to the states?!?  (I like it as well...) :1: 

I am also with Geezer on this one!! :1:

QUOTE:  Give me that 80hp 850cc motor in a 3/4 size Norge, or Sport 850, or Breva 850 and you'll pry open my cold, dead pocketbook. - - 'Geezer

He said possible delivery starting in May.

[Gliderjohn]

From fotoguzzi:

no I don't have to admit it.. looks like a hodge-podge of lines and colors, too busy.. the red looks out of place or paint the white and yellow areas red instead.

Just get one of those super high graphics helmets and the bike will look much better.
GliderJohn

[JJ]

From fotoguzzi:
Just get one of those super high graphics helmets and the bike will look much better.
GliderJohn

Yes...like maybe one of THESE!!!

[giusto]

I'm sure this guy would ride it....no helmet
I bet one shows up at Concorso d'Eleganza Villa d'Este    http://concorsodeleganzavilladeste.com/event/2018

[Jim Rich]

HP given by manufacturers is always crank HP.  Subtract 10 - 15% for rear wheel number.

[LowRyter]

HP given by manufacturers is always crank HP.  Subtract 10 - 15% for rear wheel number.

Guzzi Horsepower = Dog Year Horsepower

[dxhall]

May of 2018?  I thought production was a year or two away.

[Matteo]

May of 2018?  I thought production was a year or two away.

I’ll find out more when my dealer gets back from Mandello end of February.

[JohninVT]

Those scoffing at an 850cc listed at 80hp must have forgotten the Griso puts out 110hp and 80ft/lbs.  The 850 is 30% smaller than 1200 and 30% of 110hp is 77hp.  Power numbers aren't really scalable based on displacement but 80hp is definitely within the realm of possibility.  If there's anything to be suspicious of it is the wet weight figures being thrown around.  I can't see how it can weigh less than 500lbs yet I've repeatedly seen 460-470lbs listed.  A V9 weighs 460.  The tires alone on the V85 weigh 20lbs more than ones on the V9.  Knobbies are HEAVY.  Not to mention the wheels, beefier suspension, strengthened subframe, headlight mount and dual lights, etc. 

I happen to be pretty excited about the V85 and I even like the Ronald McDonald paint scheme.  As with anything Guzzi related, a degree of skepticism is prudent but I'm cautiously optimistic they'll produce an exceptional middleweight adv/touring bike using this platform.  If it has 70hp and 60-65ft/lbs at the wheel and comes in under 500lbs it will tick some of the right boxes for me.  My main concern is the wet weight and what appears to be an insufficient subframe to stand up to the rigors of ADV touring.           

[Rough Edge racing]

HP given by manufacturers is always crank HP.  Subtract 10 - 15% for rear wheel number.

 Hmm, usually    The Ducati shop manual for my 96 900 Monster, 73 HP at the "wheel"....Is that flywheel or rear wheel? Given the performance of the bike and it's weight,, 80-82 advertised HP would seem accurate...If Ducati can get 80 HP from two valve OHC air cooled engine then 80 HP for the Guzzi seems accurate...

[Kev m]

HP given by manufacturers is always crank HP.  Subtract 10 - 15% for rear wheel number.

Though true, and Ducati recently got themselves in trouble with the EU regulating bodies and had to basically re-rate and revise the output on their whole line subtracting a couple of hp from everything in their official specifications, something funny is going on with Guzzi.

Since the introduction of the hemi head smallblock the few dyno reports we've gotten are suggesting fewer ponies are going missing between said crank and the rear wheel.

Either way it's hard enough to try and compare manufacturers claims with each other, but it's definitely useless to try and compare those claims or rwhp today with the sometimes completely fictional claims they made decades ago.

[PeteS]

Hmm, usually    The Ducati shop manual for my 96 900 Monster, 73 HP at the "wheel"....Is that flywheel or rear wheel? Given the performance of the bike and it's weight,, 80-82 advertised HP would seem accurate...If Ducati can get 80 HP from two valve OHC air cooled engine then 80 HP for the Guzzi seems accurate...

Thise numbers are right Rough. 73-75 HP at the rear wheel is what two friends got on their early 900 Superports. With exhaust and air cleaner mods my brother got 78 at the rear wheel. Another friend with more extensive mods including cams got 82. This with a two valve engine.
Does anyone know if the new Guzzi engine will be 2 or 4 valves per cylinder? If 4 I would think 80 at the crank would be a conservative number.

Pete

[Kev m]

Hmm, usually    The Ducati shop manual for my 96 900 Monster, 73 HP at the "wheel"....Is that flywheel or rear wheel? Given the performance of the bike and it's weight,, 80-82 advertised HP would seem accurate...If Ducati can get 80 HP from two valve OHC air cooled engine then 80 HP for the Guzzi seems accurate...

I'm sure the Guzzi press material claiming 80ish is talking crank.

And IIRC our 696 was rated close to 80 (crank, and probably revised down a few, see my previous post). I think it measures somewhere around 69 rwhp on magazine dynos.

And yeah it's a 2V, air-cooled bike that see redline maybe 1k higher than the smallblock. Now it does tend to spin about 1k higher than the smallblock in practical use, though you don't even notice it as it doesn't feel bothered by it in the least.

Now Low or someone mentioned pushrods and the valve covers. Remember the new 850 hemi head is making #'s in the mid 50's by crank rating, but might be actually higher because it's rwhp results seem to be low 50's (not losing enough seemingly).

And Pete has mentioned it looks like they left room for 4V modification to those new heads.

And the Guzzi press guys admitted the show bike has the current smallblock lump BUT THE PRODUCTION ONE will make that additional claimed power.

So it seems to me the plan is to take the current 2V 55+ crank HP (maybe underrated and really closer to 60) lump, give it a new 4V valve train, and attempt to get 80 crank HP (and seriously with Italian math that means anything above mid-70's).

That doesn't seem to be a stretch at all.

I mean other than the usual "yeah baby, it's a foot long, well an Italian foot."

[JohninVT]

You really can't compare two different dynos with any degree of accuracy but I will say that either Guzzi rates their hp very conservatively at the crank, or my 1200 Sport was a particularly healthy example.  I did multiple dyno runs and the rwhp was less than 10% lower than the Guzzi rated 95hp at the crank.  It was 86-88hp across three pulls.  After the PCV, O2 Optimizer, Mistral exhaust and opening the airbox lid the rwhp was 95 and the torque was over 80ft/lbs.  I honestly think they can get 80hp at the crank on the V85 without much problem.       

[Kev m]

You really can't compare two different dynos with any degree of accuracy but I will say that either Guzzi rates their hp very conservatively at the crank, or my 1200 Sport was a particularly healthy example. I did multiple dyno runs and the rwhp was less than 10% lower than the Guzzi rated 95hp at the crank.  It was 86-88hp across three pulls. 

I don't disagree with your conclusion about the V85.

On the rest, I think there are always going to be hero dynos out there. But when you see multiple sources showing similar numbers (magazines and individuals with stock bikes) then I think you can get a feel for "accuracy" I mean, reasonably enough. No RCH's need apply.

That said, MCN had the B11 at 70 hp, 1200 Sport at 72 hp, Norge 1200 the year before at 71.2, and the Griso 1100 at 74 and those sound pretty consistent with other sources I've seen over the years.

FBF got 75 on my B11 - maybe a slight hero reading? But certainly in the ball park.

Were your dyno pulls all on the same machine or different dynos?

[Rough Edge racing]

 You do need to know what type of dyno it is....Likely 95 percent of bikes are run on Dynojet machines that are an inertia dynamometer. These are known to be optimistic, about 10 percent, compared to the eddy current or water brakes used almost exclusively by manufacturers. I run my vintage race junk on a Superflow eddy current machine...It also has inertia function that reads higher than the eddy current...

[JJ]

Just another Guzzi data point...95HP is plenty enough for me!! :1:

[arveno]

I'm sure the Guzzi press material claiming 80ish is talking *crack*

Adjusted it for you 

[Kev m]

Adjusted it for you 

LOL, I understand the desire to feel that way as knee jerk. But I think we laid out a believable argument.

Can you counter it with data?

[M0T0Geezer]

Not being into off-road,  Adventure, or Bobber style bikes, I had hoped to see some affirmation of my preference for "street" and "sport touring" Guzzi 850s.   

Ten years ago those lucky European riders got these three Gorgeous 850 Guzzis while us Yanks never had a chance at them. 

Did y'all Aussies ever have them down under?

850 BREVA


850 NORGE:


850 GRISO


Who here is interested in "80 hp" in a street 850?

'Geezer

[Kev m]

Not being into off-road,  Adventure, or Bobber style bikes, I had hoped to see some affirmation of my preference for "street" and "sport touring" Guzzi 850s.   

Ten years ago those lucky European riders got these three Gorgeous 850 Guzzis while us Yanks never had a chance at them. 

Did y'all Aussies ever have them down under?

850 BREVA


850 NORGE:


850 GRISO


Who here is interested in "80 hp" in a street 850?

'Geezer

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they the equivalent of the R850R vs the R1100R.

Same block, chassis, and overall weight/size.

As such they literally offered NOTHING to a US buyer the other than less power.

There's no tiered licensing.

There's likely little or no insurance difference.

The weights were basically the same.

I don't even think they were more efficient.


If you're gonna have a "smaller, less powerful bike" then at least make it lighter and more efficient too.

[Huzo]

That red Norge is pretty, and the Griso looks better with that stinking toaster thing off the side.
A nice set of pipes and you wouldn't embarrass the Griso if you parked your Norge beside it.
There was a red 850 Griso at the Broadford do, and it was almost something you'd consider.

[arveno]

LOL, I understand the desire to feel that way as knee jerk. But I think we laid out a believable argument.

Can you counter it with data?

No no i do not have any data  ,  i was just trying not to be too serious ... i have never really cared about HP , If i like a motorcycle i buy it regardless.

The "feel" of a motorcycle  , they way it rides , it is more important that a spec sheet .

Hey i still ride a R100GS which "claims" 60 HP .and i love it . ( and a  Ambo , and a shovel etc )

The new Guzzi looks good to me and i would love to see it at the dealer, but i doubt it will happen any time soon.

[Kev m]

No no i do not have any data  ,  i was just trying not to be too serious ... i have never really cared about HP , If i like a motorcycle i buy it regardless.

The "feel" of a motorcycle  , they way it rides , it is more important that a spec sheet .

Hey i still ride a R100GS which "claims" 60 HP .and i love it . ( and a  Ambo , and a shovel etc )

The new Guzzi looks good to me and i would love to see it at the dealer, but i doubt it will happen any time soon.

Oh sorry, then I can laugh along.

But I'll say this, I can't remember any time Dogwalker led us astray so I'm pretty darn optimistic something like this will see the light of day.

Hey, there's no harm in believing.

[wyrtyr2]

Dang,  I would love to this motor in a sporty rendition.  Wallet ready.