Just a little tumble

[mojoe]

Riding back  home from work yesterday, hadn't gone far was crossing a roundabout, taking first exit in outside of 2 lanes when a car on inside lane decides its going all the way round and cuts my exit, split second later I am on the ground wondering how the feck that happened as he/she disappeared oblivious to what had just taken place.

Thankfully me and bike are ok with just bruises and aches, Bike needs a new brake lever peg and rubber, must have broken off, and the crash bars did their job of protecting the major bits on bike.

But I am sitting here thinking was it my fault or theirs, could/should I have done something differently or was it one of those shit happens events?

Also wondering if ABS would have saved me?

[Huzo]

Riding back  home from work yesterday, hadn't gone far was crossing a roundabout, taking first exit in outside of 2 lanes when a car on inside lane decides its going all the way round and cuts my exit, split second later I am on the ground wondering how the feck that happened as he/she disappeared oblivious to what had just taken place.

Thankfully me and bike are ok with just bruises and aches, Bike needs a new brake lever peg and rubber, must have broken off, and the crash bars did their job of protecting the major bits on bike.

But I am sitting here thinking was it my fault or theirs, could/should I have done something differently or was it one of those shit happens events?

Also wondering if ABS would have saved me?

Hmmm.. Let's see if it would have " saved your skin"
Did you hit the brakes or the car ?

[Old Jock]

Funnily enough just read about a similar sort of thing happening on the Ducati forum, it was about the inside lane car taking the straightest line and therefore going into the outside lane as it exits the roundabout, but the effect is similar.

Lane discipline especially at roundabouts is appalling, I think a lot of drivers just do not understand what they are meant to do and not do.

Perhaps that's why they are a lot rarer in the US.

I would think your course of actions were limited, if already alongside the other vehicle and dependent on speed.

I suppose you could have turned with the other vehicle but it happens in a flash.

Generally I try not to be alongside another car on the inside for just this reason, but sometimes it is just unavoidable.

Sadly stupidity is more and more apparent on UK roads these days, exacerbated by the volume of traffic on this tiny island.

Easy to be holier than thou after the event and criticize.

Cannot comment about ABS never had a bike equipped with it, but I ASS-ume that you had already committed to turning, so grabbing a handful of brake, would have just made the bike sit up and would have achieved little.

Just as I see it

[mojoe]

Hit brakes and ended up high siding, still not clear exactly how it went, but was just leaning to turn left when car appeared from my left and appeared to accelerate, I guess they new they were in wrong lane saw a gap with no cars I was possibly in blind-spot with nowhere to go?
Only the fourth time in 30 odd years I have had an off but maybe my reflexes are dulling!!

[mojoe]

I have for a number of years driven defensively, can usually see/sense the problem drivers and avoid or get past quickly, this was a roundabout I use every day no-one, except this one, goes round to the next exit in inside lane.

Yeah it did sit up guess that's how right hand of bike an me took the hit.
Already thinking about parking up for winter and commute by car or get an ABS equipped bike, there is a lovely 1200 sport on Ebay!!

[tris]

.....

Lane discipline especially at roundabouts is appalling, I think a lot of drivers just do not understand what they are meant to do and not do.

.....

THIS

There is a RB on the the way to work that I cross twice a day

a) people just don't bother to follow the road markings
b) people aim to not stop rather than to plan to stop

I just hope I'm in the Octavia rather than on the bike when my luck runs out 

Glad you and the bike aren't too banged up though

[jim mac]

I am also in UK wher roundabouts are regualar - i go through 5 on my daily commute.  as said lane discpiline is poorwith people placing themselves incorrectly and not signalling intention.   i always try and stay clear and  keep speed down as safe as i can without getting rear ended

[mojoe]

Cheers guys, when I was in Scotland rode all year round, in and around Glasgow even when snow was around, rode through to mate in Kelty at Christmas/New year regular.
But each year roads are getting busier and particularly on my commute from Grays to Chelmsford.

Sooner they bring in driverless cars the better. Lol

[Sheepdog]

We have a few traffic circles in our area. They were a big improvement over the traffic signals that preceded them, but it is easy to spot drivers from out of town in them. A large percentage really don’t understand how roundabouts work. My strategy in a crowded environment is to maneuver to achieve enough space for an escape should the unexpected occur. When I cannot do this, I slow down...

[Bonaventure]

Glad you and the bike are okay.  Sounds like a shit happens event, when reflexes kick in things just happen however the laws of physics demand.

[mojoe]

More Bikes less cars according to Top Gears Hammond:
"Recent research in Belgium has shown that if 10% of us chose to commute by motorcycle, traffic congestion would be reduced by 40%.

If 25% went by bike, congestion would disappear altogether"

So how do we the politicians on board?

Or is that a scary thought with all those distracted commuters on 2 wheels?

[oldbike54]

 First , really glad you are alright mate .

 Honestly , there probably wasn't much you could have done .

 Dusty

[Lannis]

More Bikes less cars according to Top Gears Hammond:
"Recent research in Belgium has shown that if 10% of us chose to commute by motorcycle, traffic congestion would be reduced by 40%.

If 25% went by bike, congestion would disappear altogether"

So how do we the politicians on board?

Or is that a scary thought with all those distracted commuters on 2 wheels?

Politicians are never going to convince 25% (or any other unmotivated %) of the population to forego the comfort of heated seats, sound system, and a comfortable platform for browsing the Internet and texting one's friends while driving ....

... for an unstable, cold, wet mode of transport like a motorcycle or scooter.

Just speculating - if it were in the public interest to reduce congestion on the highways due to the enormous cost (social and physical) of building new highways in already crowded areas, what kind of incentives would have to be offered to the public to get out of their car and onto a bike?

If the cost to the public of the incentives (all costs) were less than the cost to the public of the new car-clogged highways, it would be worth a shot, and maybe within the function of government.   But what could they offer?

1.  Free government funded fuel?

2.  Abatement of taxes, free highway and bridge tolls?

3.  Extremely cheap subsidized two-wheel vehicles?

4.  Free bike parking at work?

It would take quite a bit to get people out of their cars, I think.   The number of people that think we're absolutely insane for riding murdercycles in the first place is higher than most of us believe, maybe.

Lannis

[mojoe]

Can't disagree Lannis but we can but hope.

 what about motorbike Lanes? just wishing out loud.

[trippah]

mojoe - even Bambi has learned  that here in N.Y. State, the deer signs (next 3 miles ha ha) are foolish attempts to channelize them for easier pickings and totally disregard the signs.  And bicycle lanes are hard to follow given all the x marks the spot highlights.   I am surprised that many think roundabouts are good vs stop lights, In Massachusetts we have almost eliminated all traffic circles in favor of traffic signals.  Go figure.

[Lannis]

I am surprised that many think roundabouts are good vs stop lights, In Massachusetts we have almost eliminated all traffic circles in favor of traffic signals.  Go figure.

In our local city, intersection upgrades have included replacing stop lights with roundabouts, and traffic flows MUCH more smoothly.   Rather than a line of traffic having to stop and sit at a light while nothing happens in the other direction, all cars move as soon as there's nothing in the way.

Spent a couple weeks driving in the UK last month, and was amazed by how much smoother traffic flowed on the overcrowded main roads when the intersections are roundabouts.   You never stop at an intersection more than the 5 or 10 seconds it takes to yield to traffic from the right - no 1:30 waits at a useless signal.

Me personal, I really like them!

Lannis

[mojoe]

Over here they dig up traffic lights to put in roundabouts, then put traffic lights on the roundabouts, 2 years later realise the traffic lights on the roundabouts are counter productive, switch them off and put covers on them!!!

Then 5 years later dig up roundabouts to put in traffic lights? but it keeps the traffic planners employed helps use up our tax budgets

[Pop]

Here in NJ they are getting rid of "traffic circles" on major roads but putting them in small towns and calling them 'rotaries'. Forgive me, but I don't see the difference. I avoid  them all. People a just stupid around them.
Hope all the bruises heal well and the bits and pieces not too dear.
Pop

[n3303j]

In the good old days when i learned to drive they were rotaries. The entrances were one lane wide and and the circle was one lane wide. Traffic in the circle always had the right of way over that entering the circle. No way to get two vehicles side by side. No way to pass or race. Nice and simple. Then last year I go to DC and there are these traffic calamities labeled roundabouts! There's a traffic light at every entrance and a bunch more inside the circle synced with those at the entrance. Makes a roundabout a 10 minute experience in navigation. Top it with the fact that the circles are often 3 or 4 lanes deep and you have to be in the layer that matches your exit. Couple this with the fact the entrance may be 3 lanes wide and you have to be in the correct lane to access the desired circle layer. I thought only in DC and a product of the idiots running the show! Thank God I'm safe from this perversion in Massachusetts.

So this summer I'm cruising New Hampshire and what do I run into but a rotary setup just like DC.

OH WELL...... There goes the neighborhood!

PS: They have just begun constructing one if these things 5 miles from my home in Massachusetts. So there's no where to hide.

[davedude]

Be careful what you wish for.  Once the self-driving cars become functional and reliable, the companies building them and owning the taxi/uber/lyft fleets will lobby congress ban private drivers from all public roads. Human drivers/riders will be deemed to unpredictable and hazardous to be allowed on public roads. 

PS:  Glad you were not seriously injured.

It's comin'

[Lannis]

Once the self-driving cars become functional and reliable, the companies building them and owning the taxi/uber/lyft fleets will lobby congress ban private drivers from all public roads.

Airliners are a MUCH easier proposition to make pilot-less in a "functional and reliable" way than are cars.

Shortly after Airbus and Boeing airliners take off with 400 passengers, fly to their destinations, and land with no one in the cockpit, then the effort to make driverless cars compulsory will start getting some traction.

As long as we're making predictions ....

Lannis

[normzone]

Yeah, and Isaac Asimov said something to the effect that the first space elevator will be built about fifty years after everybody stops laughing.

I like the pilotless aircraft idea, but I'm going to have to go search for the story of the airliner who's computer went haywire and it tried to crash the plane everytime they rebooted it.

[Moto]

Hit brakes and ended up high siding, still not clear exactly how it went, but was just leaning to turn left when car appeared from my left and appeared to accelerate, I guess they new they were in wrong lane saw a gap with no cars I was possibly in blind-spot with nowhere to go?
Only the fourth time in 30 odd years I have had an off but maybe my reflexes are dulling!!

High-siding occurs when a tire (or tires) breaks traction, then regains it (after you let off the brake). By the time the tire regains traction you are in a position where the result is an unexpected torque that flips you over. So yes, I think ABS would have prevented this by preventing you from having a (complete) loss of traction. But it's hard to say for sure, of course.

Moto

[oldbike54]

Yeah, and Isaac Asimov said something to the effect that the first space elevator will be built about fifty years after everybody stops laughing.

I like the pilotless aircraft idea, but I'm going to have to go search for the story of the airliner who's computer went haywire and it tried to crash the plane everytime they rebooted it.

 "Then stop running down what Multivac's done for us"

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

World Turned Upside Down?

Interesting enough, when reality caught up with Asimov, the development was named "UNIVAC".  It was one of the first mainframe computers I worked with.

[ohiorider]

In the good old days when i learned to drive they were rotaries. The entrances were one lane wide and and the circle was one lane wide. Traffic in the circle always had the right of way over that entering the circle. No way to get two vehicles side by side. No way to pass or race. Nice and simple. Then last year I go to DC and there are these traffic calamities labeled roundabouts! There's a traffic light at every entrance and a bunch more inside the circle synced with those at the entrance. Makes a roundabout a 10 minute experience in navigation. Top it with the fact that the circles are often 3 or 4 lanes deep and you have to be in the layer that matches your exit. Couple this with the fact the entrance may be 3 lanes wide and you have to be in the correct lane to access the desired circle layer. I thought only in DC and a product of the idiots running the show! Thank God I'm safe from this perversion in Massachusetts.

So this summer I'm cruising New Hampshire and what do I run into but a rotary setup just like DC.

OH WELL...... There goes the neighborhood!

PS: They have just begun constructing one if these things 5 miles from my home in Massachusetts. So there's no where to hide.

Several years ago, I would visit our Cherry Hill NJ sales office.  I'd never experienced entering and exiting a multi-lane rotary, so I asked the sales manager, a native, how to work my way to the outside lane to exit.  His solution "..... don't  make eye contact with anyone ......"  Scary solution!

[oldbike54]

World Turned Upside Down?

Interesting enough, when reality caught up with Asimov, the development was named "UNIVAC".  It was one of the first mainframe computers I worked with.

 The Last Question . Asimov was probably as prescient as anyone ever has been . One wonders if
R Daneel Olivaw has already been built , or if he is in the near future ?

 Dusty

[mojoe]

Moto not sure if I high sided coz my recollection of the incident still aint straight, but leaning in to left one second, bike sliding on its right on road next, happened in what seemed like a flash, felt like I was up on my feet before bike came to rest?

But I guess human memory is a strange thing!! thinking I wouldn't make much of a witness especially in my own trial.

[normzone]

Moto not sure if I high sided coz my recollection of the incident still aint straight, but leaning in to left one second, bike sliding on its right on road next, happened in what seemed like a flash, felt like I was up on my feet before bike came to rest?

But I guess human memory is a strange thing!! thinking I wouldn't make much of a witness especially in my own trial.

[mojoe], there are indications that our brains don't retain all info about crashes very well. Theories range from data getting scrambled due to stress to it being a protective mechanism to reduce stress.

And regarding computers, from Multivac to Univac, and EPICAC (Kurt Vonnegut) to Ipecac, used to make you vomit in case of poison ingestion.

And lastly, my little sister was learning to freeway commute in So Cal and asked to borrow my Ford F250. She said it was great, people actually got out of your way when they saw you coming, but how could she get them to let her change lanes ?

I told her to set up for the best possible lane change option, then start making it clear you were trying to see the guy you were about to move over in front of but that you just couldn't quite get a good line of sight, and never quite make eye contact. If you're lucky, they'll see the hazard and take the hint.

[Moto]

Moto not sure if I high sided coz my recollection of the incident still aint straight, but leaning in to left one second, bike sliding on its right on road next, happened in what seemed like a flash, felt like I was up on my feet before bike came to rest?

But I guess human memory is a strange thing!! thinking I wouldn't make much of a witness especially in my own trial.

Understandable. I see how you deduced rather than remembered what happened. What Norm just said is often reported.

I'd bet you did high-side. I know the evolution of the stages because I had a very near miss once, in which I was able to counteract the flip as it started. Unforgettable. (And a big inducement to be more careful about replacing worn tires.)

Moto