Small displacement motorcycles: The future for motorcycling?

[willowstreetguzziguy]

Many signs point to riders opting for smaller motorcycles. Honda seems to be selling a lot of Groms. Itwas originally built to attract Newbes. They are buying them but also older riders as well! It has a high "Fun" factor and its popularity has really taken off. Other companies appear to following suit.

With an aging motorcycling population, we even see it on this forum, many older riders are shedding the heavy bikes in favor of lighter bikes. I think with a major glut of Harleys for sale on Craigslist, and in front yards etc. the days of the heavyweight motorcycles is slowly fading away as the population ages. This won't be good for Harley unless they make a radical change to smaller, lightweight bikes. I just don't see the millennials taking up riding bikes over 500cc. It's not in their DNA and they currently can't afford or justify the high cost & a short 6-month riding season. Some aren't even getting a drivers licenses.

I think you'll see the major motorcycle manufacturers drastically trim their amount of models they offer while at the same time court the younger crowd and some old timers with smaller and lighter bikes.  I think it's "Change with the times or go out of business." I don't know where this leaves Moto Guzzi? 

[LowRyter]

yeah,  me I'd like to downsize, like going from a 1200 Suzuki Bandit to 937 Ducati SS. 

I am getting up in age.  I prolly need to slow down.   

[webmost]

I hope so. I'd like to see a low slung 700cc bagger in someone's lineup.
But then, I'd like to see a philly cheesesteak one person could finish.

[Testarossa]

This is the third or fourth thread this year on the topic of downsizing to lighter machinery.

I believe there's a correlation between nostalgia (retrobikes) and the need of older (nostalgic) riders for lighter bikes. The combination is certainly why I restored the TR6R, and I've been thinking that we're not likely to see large-displacement retros, Triumph's 900 twins notwithstanding -- they're just too heavy. It's why I like the idea of an Enfield 650 twin -- if they could get the weight down under 400 lb. Right now it's about 475 with a full tank.

The TR6R is not reliable enough to go more than a few miles from home. I've been thinking about a small block Guzzi, but what I lust for is a 375 lb bike with classic standard ergos and a dual saddle. If that turns out to be a 21st century Guzzi Falcone, great, but I won't hold my breath.

[Lannis]

The TR6R is not reliable enough to go more than a few miles from home.

That doesn't have to be so, though.   I've ridden my 650 BSAs (A65 and A10) tens of thousands of miles on two different continents and never had to be trucked home (well, once, but it was my fault in not staking a screw head into place like the book said).   

There's nothing in the design of that bike that won't let it go thousands of miles from home and then get you back!   Somethin's broke .... 

Lannis

[Arizona Wayne]

Both my 750 Breva & MuZ 660 single weigh about 400#.  For a 2 wheeler that's as heavy as I want now.  My 2 MP3s are heavier but w/3 wheels they're much easier to handle than a 2 wheeler. 

[Testarossa]

Somethin's broke .... 

Yup. It's sumping. I put in an oversize oil pump and that hasn't cured it. If I drain the sump I can go about 15 miles before it starts smoking.  So I'll have to tear it down again and find the leak in the internal piping. Pain in the butt, and the project will have to wait until the 850T is back together.

[Lannis]

Yup. It's sumping. I put in an oversize oil pump and that hasn't cured it. If I drain the sump I can go about 15 miles before it starts smoking.  So I'll have to tear it down again and find the leak in the internal piping. Pain in the butt, and the project will have to wait until the 850T is back together.

Pain in the butt is right ... and it probably SHOULD go behind the 850T on the Priority List!   Once you start getting into that engine far enough to find an internal oil leak, you start coming out of the other side ...

Lannis

[Triple Jim]

My preference shifting to smaller, lighter motorcycles isn't related to my age or strength, but rather my learning that smaller, lighter motorcycles are more fun for me to ride.  The big turning point happened when a friend insisted I try his Yamaha 100 on the Dragon.  It was so fun that I was laughing out loud in disbelief as I passed much larger, more powerful motorcycles that lumbered around the turns.  At this point, I don't need anything bigger than my Ninja 250 on curvy roads to have tons of fun.

[Sasquatch Jim]

 These are the reasons I am happy with my Suzuki 200cc Van Van.
 Oh , and the purchase price was way lower too, and gas milage is higher.
 And it has a BIG saddle so my butt is happier too.

[Bill]

My preference shifting to smaller, lighter motorcycles isn't related to my age or strength, but rather my learning that smaller, lighter motorcycles are more fun for me to ride.  The big turning point happened when a friend insisted I try his Yamaha 100 on the Dragon.  It was so fun that I was laughing out loud in disbelief as I passed much larger, more powerful motorcycles that lumbered around the turns.  At this point, I don't need anything bigger than my Ninja 250 on curvy roads to have tons of fun.

Amen. For the last 20 years I've been riding 11-1300cc bikes. Recently I trucked my 250 Ninjette to North Georgia. It was the most fun I've had in 20 years. Smoked the same roads I was familiar with and felt so confident in the tight twisties. The big bikes are great for long trips, but for around town and cornering fun small bikes are for me.
Bill

[antmanbee]

I have been enjoying a smaller lighter bike lately.

I got this for my daughter (but maybe really me) and have been working on it and riding it now for a couple of thousand miles and it's a blast.
A 650 single that I have lightened maybe 15 to 20 pounds to about 360 wet, and re-jetted.





And I hope to get it to look more like this, but keep it red. Mostly it needs some rear or mid set pegs. Weight should be about 330-340.





But I have also been thinking about a Ninja 250 to strip and cafe like this. It said in the thread that it weighed about 275lb.

[Triple Jim]

But I have also been thinking about a Ninja 250 to strip and cafe like this. It said in the thread that it weighed about 275lb.

That one was the inspiration for mine.  Daughter riding it on Dragon:

[antmanbee]

Looks good. You filled the holes in the side of the gas tank. Sometimes they can be found pretty cheap if they have been dropped with mostly just fairing damage.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

360 lbs wet. 70 mpg. Will cruise at 70 easily. Tons of fun.

[Triple Jim]

That's a 3-1/2, isn't it Charlie?  I've heard nothing but good things about those.  Fun, great handling, enough power, etc..

[Ncdan]

Perfect I don’t mind a lighter and smaller motor that these 1400-2000cc monsters that all the companies have been in a war over the past 20+ years. However that said, I don’t want the bikes themselves to get smaller which means NOT CONFORTABLE to ride. 1200cc is as big as any motorcycle needs to be

[pmillar]

I have been enjoying a smaller lighter bike lately.

I got this for my daughter (but maybe really me) and have been working on it and riding it now for a couple of thousand miles and it's a blast.
A 650 single that I have lightened maybe 15 to 20 pounds to about 360 wet, and re-jetted.





And I hope to get it to look more like this, but keep it red. Mostly it needs some rear or mid set pegs. Weight should be about 330-340.

Somebody used to make and sell flat tracker conversion kits for the old Suzuki Savage (S40). It looked like a comfy riding position as well. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-9V4Pr4hPS0c%2FT9VzI0fT_5I%2FAAAAAAAAAu4%2FUVXnQsAS1CQ%2Fs1600%2FIMG_1381.JPG&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Frycatracker.blogspot.com%2F2012%2F06%2F&docid=AsCGCpAeL0Y6kM&tbnid=uyHzhxq08TiiKM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjyw7PAlf7XAhUH7YMKHcTRAw4QMwhNKA4wDg..i&w=1600&h=1200&bih=590&biw=1280&q=suzuki%20savage%20flat%20tracker%20conversion%20kit&ved=0ahUKEwjyw7PAlf7XAhUH7YMKHcTRAw4QMwhNKA4wDg&iact=mrc&uact=8

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=590&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=YX0sWtngLeeijwTth56ABg&q=ryca+motors&oq=ryca+motors&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i30k1j0i24k1l5.12430.14405.0.15292.11.8.0.3.3.0.105.631.7j1.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.11.653...0i67k1j0i5i30k1.0.RzqOVXve2C4

No luck posting one of the better images so all I can offer up is the links.

[ohiorider]

I think it's even more than displacement, hp, and weight.  I think it has much to do with how all these specifications come together to make a wonderful bike, or in many cases, not so wonderful.

Case in point - my 1991 BMW R100GS engine displaces nearly 1000cc, but outputs (per the factory) 58hp.  For me, that bike has been a 'do all' machine.  Way too damn tall for me, but I've learned to cope with that.  A  huge Schwinn bicycle of a motorcycle that has proven itself to me for 26 years and over 150,000 miles.  The relatively low HP number has been a non issue all these years.

Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport -  if any bike ever was farther away from being a 'sport' bike, this is it.  Relatively heavy, and top heavy when loaded with 6 gallons of fuel.  But once I arrived at the right combination of handlebars, tires, and saddle, I'd take this bike cross country without even thinking about its negatives.  It eats up miles like my dad's old Buick Invicta did.  I'd do it, and enjoy it. 

2003 Triumph 790cc Bonneville - go cross country on this?  Yep.  Two of us headed west from Ohio in 2006 on two Bonnevilles.  We did plan our trip westward so that we stayed mostly to older US highways vs Interstates, but something about these bikes made them work out as long haul bikes.  I suppose we each put 4000 miles on the bikes over several days, and there was just something about these Triumphs that felt right, whether we stuck to US Highways, or took to the Interstate when required.

2014 Honda CB1100 - this is funny.  Here's a bike that weighs slightly over 500 pounds, is lower to the road than anything else I own, has 88hp, but to date, I'm having trouble getting into it.  Stock suspension for my weight felt way too stiff, so I'm faced with throwing $$ at the bike to make it 'ride' the way I expect it to.  I would have expected it to far exceed my old BMW or even the T100 Triumph, but as of yet, it isn't happening.

Sorry for the ramble.  I think what I'm trying to express is how we sometimes buy a bike that works for us, and other times, no amount of putzing with the bike makes it work for us, whether it's small displacement or a monster engine.  Seems to be more than the weight/displacement thing.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

That's a 3-1/2, isn't it Charlie?  I've heard nothing but good things about those.  Fun, great handling, enough power, etc..

Up until '82(?), they were called the 3 1/2, after that the "K" series started, so it was 350 K and my 350 K2.

[guzzisteve]

How about a V7III 350, That would be a hoot.

[Triple Jim]

How about a V7III 350, That would be a hoot.

A V7 with one plug wire disconnected?   

[ramarren]

I've always preferred bikes in the 600-800cc category that weighed, total, between 390 to 500 lbs. Always.
The V7III Racer is perfect for me. :-)

[guzzisteve]

A V7 with one plug wire disconnected?   

The smallblock started out as a 350 & 500, so it wouldn't be too difficult.

[antmanbee]

Somebody used to make and sell flat tracker conversion kits for the old Suzuki Savage (S40). It looked like a comfy riding position as well. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-9V4Pr4hPS0c%2FT9VzI0fT_5I%2FAAAAAAAAAu4%2FUVXnQsAS1CQ%2Fs1600%2FIMG_1381.JPG&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Frycatracker.blogspot.com%2F2012%2F06%2F&docid=AsCGCpAeL0Y6kM&tbnid=uyHzhxq08TiiKM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjyw7PAlf7XAhUH7YMKHcTRAw4QMwhNKA4wDg..i&w=1600&h=1200&bih=590&biw=1280&q=suzuki%20savage%20flat%20tracker%20conversion%20kit&ved=0ahUKEwjyw7PAlf7XAhUH7YMKHcTRAw4QMwhNKA4wDg&iact=mrc&uact=8

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=590&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=YX0sWtngLeeijwTth56ABg&q=ryca+motors&oq=ryca+motors&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i30k1j0i24k1l5.12430.14405.0.15292.11.8.0.3.3.0.105.631.7j1.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.11.653...0i67k1j0i5i30k1.0.RzqOVXve2C4

No luck posting one of the better images so all I can offer up is the links.

Those are the Ryca kits which are nice but a bit on the expensive side for me. They run $3-4K + more if you add some extras.
I plan to keep it more stock.
I just need some pegs that are more rear set that I will probably fabricate myself and then make a rear seat frame that will bolt on to the savage frame so I can use a more flat standard seat that is a bit higher.
Then install some rear shocks that are an inch or two longer and get rid of the sissy bar and chrome side rails and I'll be good.
The cost should not be more than $500 or so.
It is already a lot of fun as it is, but I don't care for the cruiser style so much.
The s40 can usually be found pretty cheap and with low miles. I got a good deal on this one with only 4K miles.
I love the sound and feel, I fantasize I am on the Isle of Man racing a big thumper when I get heavy on the throttle and wind it out a bit.

[guzzisteve]

A friend has an older Savage set-up for flat track, it's his back up bike. It's also competitive w/reworked engine. He normally rides the Rotax(air cooled) that is real fast. I was looking at the Savage and noticed a spacer under the cyl, he said yes it has a longer rod in it.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

The smallblock started out as a 350 & 500, so it wouldn't be too difficult.

But would it be economically feasible unless the bike was assembled in Asia? A 350 or 500 would cost almost the same as the 750 if built in Italy. Even if it was "de-contented" or a stripper like the Jackal, it would still cost more than most folks would pay.

There's a thread on ADV Rider about building a Savage Roadster:
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/suzuki-650bts-another-ls650-s40-savage-build-why.1242281/

[ScepticalScotty]

I did in fact ride my SRX600 at the IOM Antmanbee and I can tell you a big thumper with a fruity exhaust is a lot of fun there. Of course it was open roads in TT week, so you could not got completely wild.