The Guzzi V700's most ancient ancestor?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Saw this on Facebook and thought it might be of interest here:

Moto-Cardan Motorcycles

A Brief History of the Marque

Represented by A. Lambert et Cie
27 avenue de la grande Armée, Paris

The Moto-Cardan was a V-twin engined motorcycle built in France in 1903. It was one of the first (possibly the first) motorcycles to feature shaft-drive to the rear wheel.
Émile Robion of E.R., an aviation pioneer, patented his creation on February 14, 1903.

According to a post on pit-lane.biz, much of the historical information about E.R. and Moto-Cardan requires revision.

The post says, in essence:

In 1900 or 1901 Emile Robion of 142, rue de Paris, Puteaux, conceptualised the motorcycle which would later be marketed under the Moto-Cardan brand. Without financing, machinery, or engineering skills, he concentrated first on the transmission components - drive-train, clutch and gearbox. He filed patents in May and November of 1902 and March 1904, and later filed for patents in the US, UK and Austria.
In 1902 he met Léon-Georges Lévy of Manufacture Française d’Appareil & Accessoires pour Cycles & Automobiles, also of Puteaux, who co-operated with Robion to built his "E.R.", the name of which was coined on May 30, 1902.

It is understood that the motorcycle (or perhaps just the drive train) was exhibited at the 5th International Automobile Exhibition in December 1902.

Lambert & Cie, an automobile manufacturer in Nanterre with showrooms in Paris became the sales representative for Emile Robion's creations. In late 1902 the first prototype was built, equipped with the two-speed ER clutch gearbox and the Lambert igniter, using the Moto-Cardan marque. This name was registered on September 23, 1903 by M Levy.

The post goes on to say that in fact Ader (often associated with the marque) had nothing to do with E.R. or Moto-Cardan, providing a fairly solid argument and a number of photographs.

[93spada]

How'd you like to barn find one of them???
Pretty cool.
Single cardan for the hard tail set up?
Very Guzzi like.

[brider]

Who is "Ader", and how did they sit on those seats without sliding off? Seems like every old-timey bicycle photo shows a saddle at a weird angle.

[bigbikerrick]

Thats really cool, Charlie! Interesting looking layout. That  drivetrain looks more substantial  to me than the early American bikes from that era.
Thanks for sharing this,
Rick.

[Guzzi Gal]

  Nifty ride!

[twowings]

Looks like a tidy little package...wonder if they sold any?

[Ncdan]

Interesting enough to google for further examination!

[Waltr]

No foot pegs!

[rodekyll]

No foot pegs!

Or suspension.  What

[Kiwi_Roy]

Who is "Ader", and how did they sit on those seats without sliding off? Seems like every old-timey bicycle photo shows a saddle at a weird angle.

That's the for-runner of disk brakes, slide off the seat onto the rear tire, you stop pretty quick

What year did Sunbeam come out with their shaft drive?

[Sasquatch Jim]

No foot pegs!

That's because the brake shoes are the same ones the rider is wearing.
 Although the butt cheek calipers are an idea with merit if you don't get your bonifides caught in the wheel.

[Moto]

Does it look like the drive shaft is geared off the edge of the flywheel? One speed.

[ITSec]

Looks like a tidy little package...wonder if they sold any?

When the machines had been sitting for two years, their price was cut by 40%, and they were swept up by older men with red suspenders....

[Murray]

I dunno I am reminded of this an European take on life/ national stereotypes.

Heaven is where the Police are British the Cooks are French the mechanics are German the Lovers are Italian and its all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the cooks are British the mechanics are French the Police are German the Lovers are Swiss and its all organised by the Italians.

[jas67]

This pic shows the bottom back populated with a crank, pedals, and chain to the rear wheel, as was customary with early motorcycles.   This one is a single.

http://cybermotorcycle.com/euro/brands/moto-cardan.htm

[jas67]

Does it look like the drive shaft is geared off the edge of the flywheel? One speed.

No, that's just the perspective of the picture.    There the drive shaft is connected via a second cardan joint to the crankshaft, partially blocked by the crankcase in the photo.

[Moto]

No, that's just the perspective of the picture.    There the drive shaft is connected via a second cardan joint to the crankshaft, partially blocked by the crankcase in the photo.

Ah, yes. The new picture tells the story. Thinking about it later I realized that my imaginary arrangement would have provided the opposite of gear reduction, not what is needed. Thanks.

Moto

[Denis]

Or suspension.  What

Back in those days, motorcycle riders raced in velodromes, basically the same wooden tracks that bicycles raced on. In the USA, people like Oscar Hedstrom and George Hendee (who joined forces and founded Indian Motocycle Company) raced bicycles on the board tracks (basic copies of European velodromes) and built pacing motorcycles for use during bicycle races.
When actual motorcycles started being built and raced in the US, they had no brakes, no clutch and they were single speed with direct drive to the crankshaft. Speed was controlled by the throttle and magneto kill switch.
It only took around 10 years for some of these things to break the 100mph barrier. Unfortunately, lots of racers and spectators died in crashes and the short tracks (especially the 1/8 mile) were referred to as "murderdromes", an evil pun on "velodromes".
An Indian recorded the fastest time ever on a board track, topping just over 123mph. Just a few years after that board track racing met it's demise.

[Sheepdog]

The v-twin version is a handsome bike. Maybe prettier than an Indian Scout...



...or maybe not.

[JeffOlson]

The v-twin version is a handsome bike. Maybe prettier than an Indian Scout...



...or maybe not.

That is one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever!

[Denis]

Yeah, that Indian is pretty much drop dead gorgeous!

Even in some of the worst photos of board track racers you can always tell the Indians from other bikes because they used unique handlebars. They had a center section, raised in the middle, with additional end bars for throttle and spark advance.

[Denis]

And then there's some of the other brands: Excelsior, Jefferson, Cyclone, Flying Merkel...







best free image hosting sites

[rodekyll]

When I lived east of Seattle I drove past a board track near Redmond on my daily commute.  I don't know if it is still there.

[chuck peterson]

I think I'll just slip these two photos in here....Mr Marsh back in the day, guzzi dealer forever. Photo is dated 1928





And in 2001, at the Indian 100th bday, 2001 sitting on a flat tracker he actually used, and Fred at plus 100 himself

[Rough Edge racing]

 Glen Curtiss , 1907, 136 MPH on the beach in Florida....V engine, shaft drive, and notice the u joint construction and the open bevel gear...

         

[Chuck in Indiana]

Who is "Ader", and how did they sit on those seats without sliding off? Seems like every old-timey bicycle photo shows a saddle at a weird angle.

Believe it or not, the saddle angle is correct for when you are bent over on a bicycle.

[Sheepdog]

I remember a bike shop in the Catskills (New Paltz, NY?) that used a very early Indian Scout as part of their sign. I think it was in the late seventies. Even then, I remember thinking it was an awfully cool bike to be left hanging outside from a couple of rusty chains...

[guzzisteve]

Ader made the same or similar engine

https://www.rmw.lv/car/lv/two-cylinder-v-twin-four-seater

http://zhumoriste.over-blog.com/article-archives-retrouvees-1-81988905.html